An Expression of Frustration over the Bulldozer Debacle

[jhu]

so you think its cool that AMD lies about release times repeatadly to the point that BD is barely going to beat SB-e and IB out the door is cool?

That's AMD's problem. Not mine.

 

[Meghan54]

That's AMD's problem. Not mine.

Exactly. It's not like my life is in any way tied to AMD's success or failure. Feels sorry for AMD's employees with their uncertain future, but my happiness, sadness, frustration is in no way affected by anything AMD does or doesn't do.

Their just parts of a machine. That's all they are. To be so emotionally involved in a machine's part that fails to appear or appears later than expected is just......sad. Must be a hollow life to be so tied to inanimate objects.

 

[jhu]

Exactly. It's not like my life is in any way tied to AMD's success or failure. Feels sorry for AMD's employees with their uncertain future, but my happiness, sadness, frustration is in no way affected by anything AMD does or doesn't do.

Their just parts of a machine. That's all they are. To be so emotionally involved in a machine's part that fails to appear or appears later than expected is just......sad. Must be a hollow life to be so tied to inanimate objects.

I really don't know which is more sad: Democrats vs. Republicans, or Intel fanbois vs. AMD fanbois.

 

[piesquared]

Can't wait for amd to luanch something so I can see some ivybridge leaks from intel.

There was one leak and it showed 2-3% in most benches over sandy but I want to see socket 2011 heads up with bd

Why wait til Bulldozer launch? I want to see ivy bridge performance numbers from intel, release dates, and SKU prices now. I don't care if it's delayed again to mid 2012, I want and demand those things now.

 

[grkM3]

Why wait til Bulldozer launch? I want to see ivy bridge performance numbers from intel, release dates, and SKU prices now. I don't care if it's delayed again to mid 2012, I want and demand those things now.

we have ivy and sandy e benches now just do a google search

Im more than happy with my setup,I just want to see how well there 22nm power and overclocking can go.

prices are also leaked

for the record we have been waiting for amds next gen cpu for over 4 years,on the other hand ivy bridge was and is supposed to come out in the year 2012 from the get go.Intel dosnt do a tic and a tock in the same year.

new arch sandy,then die shrink year later.Now if intel drags out ivybridge for 4 years then Ill make a thread like the op did about intel not giving us any info.

Intel spilled there beans,they told AMD that there 22nm ivy will consume 50% less power then sandy at the same clock speed.

no wonder why AMD is so tight lipped,they know they cant compete with 22nm

everything points out to AMD not expecting intels sandy to be as powerfull as they are.

once sandys were launched amd had to raise clocks to compete and the ceo steps down litterally the same week that sandys reviews were up.

serioulsy if BD could compete there would of been leaks to slow people down from goin to intel

 

[Idontcare]

And here I thought JF-AMD was an individual poster and not posting for AMD PR...:hmm:

Which is true.

I have a technical background, in both education and experience, and that enables me to speak to matters of a technical nature (process technology, etc) with some authority and credibility without being a representative of my employer (Texas Instruments, at the time).

I find it awkward, for you, that you can't see your way clearly to understanding this difference without the aid of a random forum person taking the time to explain it to you. :\

 

[Idontcare]

I'm not saying AMD owes me anything -- I'm simply annoyed that we have been...made to expect things that were not true.

It's one thing to say "it'll be out when it's out". If that had been the line the *whole* time, then whatever. It's a totally different thing to say:

- It'll be launched in Q2 (and adamantly champion it through the forums)
- It'll be launched within 60-90 days

and then proceed to have both of these ranges fly right by without a hint of explanation. I personally am not in the market for a new CPU anytime soon, but I've seen a lot of people hold off their own computer purchases because they're waiting to see how Bulldozer performs.

I don't "worry" over this stuff for myself -- but if we're on these forums, I'd expect that the primary discussion topics would be "CPUs and Overclocking"! And in this domain, this is what I'm thinking about

Also, as an AMD investor, it'd be nice to know that when the company makes presentations and says things, they aren't lying to me.

Consider the timing. Rory just came on board. Rory may well do an Ellison and just end "the madness" if it is just not going to deliver.

At the start, Ellison shut down one of Schwartz's pet projects -- development of the "Rock" microprocessor for Sun's high-end SPARC server line, a semiconductor that had struggled in development for five years as engineers sought to overcome a string of technical problems. "This processor had two incredible virtues: It was incredibly slow and it consumed vast amounts of energy. It was so hot that they had to put about 12 inches of cooling fans on top of it to cool the processor," said Ellison. "It was just madness to continue that project."

Anyone else notice the microarchitectural parallels between Bulldozer and Rock, let alone the project management/timeline parallels? (complete with with the corporate blogging part)

"The underlying engineering teams are so good, but the direction they got was so astonishingly bad that even they couldn't succeed," said Ellison. "Really great blogs do not take the place of great microprocessors. Great blogs do not replace great software. Lots and lots of blogs does not replace lots and lots of sales."

 

[trollolo]

all this colon crucifixion going on. Don't know about you guys, but i'll be buying based on price/performance ratio, and not much else. As a student with a limited income that's my biggest concern.

 

[Arg Clin]

not really, because for the average Joe-buying-a-new-CPU, there is a "new thing" all the time and he can't tell the difference except that he needs new M/B and RAM. Average Joe doesn't know anything about release dates, target segments, process technology and so on...

Average Joe - sure. But they get bad PR amongst system builders and enthusiasts - the kind of guys Average Joe likes to ask for advice when he's getting new stuff, or who might be buying professionally even.

 

[Cogman]

Congrats, you just wrote an open letter that your target audience will NEVER read. The closest you'll get it JFAMD, and I believe he isn't involved the big picture decisions (like launch date and NDA policies).

Unless you are a big consumer, (as in, you have legal teams to draft your open letters) open letters are about as pointless as online petitions.

 

[RussianSensation]

OP just go buy urself a SB 2500k already, u dont owe AMD anything nor do they owe u anything.

Exactly. For people who only utilize 4 threads or less, it makes no sense to wait for BD. For people who use 6-8 threads, it makes a lot of sense to wait for BD. BD is positioning an 8-core vs. 2500k/2600k. You can't expect a $300-350 8-core processor with similar performance per core to a 2500k/2600k. That would imply 2x the performance of a 2500k!

The writing has been on the wall for a long time: AMD is focusing on much improved power consumption and total throughput in multi-threaded performance, not maximum per-core performance.

AMD had a winner in HD5xxx series and they launched it as soon as they could. BD being late likely signals poor yields (esp. at higher frequencies, required to be competitive since BD will be worse in IPC to SB) and general lack of uncompetiteness with SB at lower frequencies (hence more re-spinning to try to get those chips to higher frequencies).

Anyone expecting BD to "blow" SB out of the water is just setting themselves up for disappointment. If a person really needed an upgrade, it's not like SB was too slow....but it's been out for 8 months. The way I look at it, it all comes down to how many threads you run and if you really need to upgrade or do it as a hobby.

My 2 cents.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Congrats, you just wrote an open letter that your target audience will NEVER read. The closest you'll get it JFAMD, and I believe he isn't involved the big picture decisions (like launch date and NDA policies).

Unless you are a big consumer, (as in, you have legal teams to draft your open letters) open letters are about as pointless as online petitions.

The purpose of an open letter isn't primarily to inform the listed recipient. It's primary purpose is to inform and create discussion amongst the community interested. Ya know, kinda like these forums?

To the OP, we might like AMD to operate differently but, it's not worth getting worked up about especially in light of the recent HP decisions where they've made it plain that they don't care if they manufacture computers or 'widgets' as long as the money's there.

 

[Cogman]

The purpose of an open letter isn't primarily to inform the listed recipient. It's primary purpose is to inform and create discussion amongst the community interested. Ya know, kinda like these forums?

Then why even create the pretentious BS of an "Open letter". Why not just start a thread saying "Hey, I really hate how AMD is doing xyz". Open letters are still letters, they are meant to go to an individual (while being read by many).

There is a difference between striking up a discussion and pretending like your anonymous opinion actually matters.

 

[Meghan54]

Then why even create the pretentious BS of an "Open letter". Why not just start a thread saying "Hey, I really hate how AMD is doing xyz". Open letters are still letters, they are meant to go to an individual (while being read by many).

There is a difference between striking up a discussion and pretending like your anonymous opinion actually matters.

Because it made the OP feel important.

The only time an "open letter" is worth a damn is when an influential figure does it, publishes it in multiple major newspapers and news outlets, and follows through and actually sends it to the CEO of the company involved......like Bill Gates might have done, or Ellison, or Jobs or the like.

From us.....it's worth less than an online petition in a blog no one reads.

 

[bridito]

Consider the timing. Rory just came on board. Rory may well do an Ellison and just end "the madness" if it is just not going to deliver.

Anyone else notice the microarchitectural parallels between Bulldozer and Rock, let alone the project management/timeline parallels? (complete with with the corporate blogging part)

If Read does a Rock, the fallout would literally change the entire high end consumer CPU landscape for years. However, Rory might not have a choice if the problems with BD are as serious as have been rumored (by some). Releasing a barely-i5 competitor instead of the nuclear leveller that many AMD enthusiasts are expecting might be even more devastating than just cancelling the BD project altogether and starting a "just you wait for Trinity" evangelism along the lines of Barcy and BD before it. I don't know how much they're paying Read, but if this is the case, it's nowhere near enough to put up with the amount of flying excrement that's going to hit the ventilator.

 

[Rhezuss]

That's exactly what could destroy the hobby, drama.

 

[Arg Clin]

The purpose of an open letter isn't primarily to inform the listed recipient. It's primary purpose is to inform and create discussion amongst the community interested. Ya know, kinda like these forums?

To the OP, we might like AMD to operate differently but, it's not worth getting worked up about especially in light of the recent HP decisions where they've made it plain that they don't care if they manufacture computers or 'widgets' as long as the money's there.

While the topic is interesting enough, there's little point to an "open letter" here. With all due respect for Anandtech and AT forums.

The point of an open letter (to my understanding, subject to cultural differences and such) is to call out in public a certain public person or company to comment on a certain topic (typically an obvious or implied criticism). The author wouldn't necessarily have to hold great influence, although this does grant the letter weight. But at the very least, it would have to be publicized in a forum or media where the receiver and persons or companies that hold significant influence over the receiver of the open letter would be watching.

 

[bridito]

While the topic is interesting enough, there's little point to an "open letter" here. With all due respect for Anandtech and AT forums.

The point of an open letter (to my understanding, subject to cultural differences and such) is to call out in public a certain public person or company to comment on a certain topic (typically an obvious or implied criticism). The author wouldn't necessarily have to hold great influence, although this does grant the letter weight. But at the very least, it would have to be publicized in a forum or media where the receiver and persons or companies that hold significant influence over the receiver of the open letter would be watching.

True, but the OP is expressing his frustration, and even the most unbiased observer has to admit that for someone in a position of having to keep telling clients who are expecting a certain product that it has been delayed yet again is not conducive to good customer relations. Of course it's outside of his control, but the delays (which at last rumor seem to be expanding into October or ???) are clearly lamentable.

 

[Arg Clin]

True, but the OP is expressing his frustration, and even the most unbiased observer has to admit that for someone in a position of having to keep telling clients who are expecting a certain product that it has been delayed yet again is not conducive to good customer relations. Of course it's outside of his control, but the delays (which at last rumor seem to be expanding into October or ???) are clearly lamentable.

I agree. AMD should not hand out release dates they cannot keep. I said that earlier in the thread.

I was more commenting on the appropriate use of the instrument "open letter". I work with political stuff like that in my day job, so I had to comment

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I agree. AMD should not hand out release dates they cannot keep. I said that earlier in the thread.

I was more commenting on the appropriate use of the instrument "open letter". I work with political stuff like that in my day job, so I had to comment

I think the OP has some good points and would remind you that there are many opinions of equal or greater weight in society and business than political ones.

 

[Cogman]

I think the OP has some good points and would remind you that there are many opinions of equal or greater weight in society and business than political ones.

I don't think we are saying that the OP didn't make good points. We are saying the whole "open letter" thing is pretentious. It is the OP trying to make himself sound more important than he is.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I don't think we are saying that the OP didn't make good points. We are saying the whole "open letter" thing is pretentious. It is the OP trying to make himself sound more important than he is.

We are talking about a post in Anandtech forums? I think that's pretty much the norm.

 

[bridito]

I agree. AMD should not hand out release dates they cannot keep. I said that earlier in the thread.

I was more commenting on the appropriate use of the instrument "open letter". I work with political stuff like that in my day job, so I had to comment

Fair enough, and I believe that it would be a reasonable statement to say that most of the participants on this thread might agree with the sentiments expressed although they may have reservations about the "open letter" format.

 

[Arg Clin]

I think the OP has some good points and would remind you that there are many opinions of equal or greater weight in society and business than political ones.

Certainly. The validity of OP's points are not the questions - we can all agree or disagree on that. The point is that unless OP represents some kind of power factor that AMD would have to take into consideration on a top management level, and AMD top management reacts to information posted here on AT forum, (again with all due respect) the term "open letter" is not being used right.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Certainly. The validity of OP's points are not the questions - we can all agree or disagree on that. The point is that unless OP represents some kind of power factor that AMD would have to take into consideration on a top management level, and AMD top management reacts to information posted here on AT forum, (again with all due respect) the term "open letter" is not being used right.

Only politicos think they get to define how the public interacts with them.

But, back on topic, AMD needs to pick a hard date for release and STICK to it.