An Israeli point of view...

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well you didn't answer my question either, so why are you dodging? whats the reality of the situation or are you that dense? also nice to know it takes you 8 minutes to write 3 lines of meaningless drivel.

you a student of anti semitism obviously i take it and obviously a moral relativist, anyone that supports the immoral means of the palestinians is an expert on the matter.

dense? dense would be thinking that a person who is simply awaiting a responce instead of another question is trying to dodge anything. dense would be thinking it acutally took 8 minutes to write what i did instead of realiseing that i was doing more than one thing at the time. dense would be calling a person who is anti-zionist and anti-semite, failing to even acknowledge that the Arabs are also a semitic tribe and even many Jews oppose zionism. dense would be assumeing i support the immoral means of anyone when i have clearly made effort to do so. so are you going to ever answer the question that was posed to you, or are you content to remain dense?

 

[0roo0roo]

dense would be to ignore the origins and actual intent of the creator of the term of anti semitism. play games all you want, but thats all you are doing. your self justified hatred is such that you cannot apply standards of judgement in an rational even handed manner. just remember, the palestinians once allied themselves with hitler and agreed to carry out their portion of the final solution, and all you can do is talk of zionism?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

A large & rapidly growing segment of the European population still believes in that.

perhaps you should be more upset about the arab states in the area then. in some its still a crime punishable by death to convert a muslim. amoung the litany of other absurdities common in the region.

Status of Religious Freedom

Freedom of religion does not exist. Islam is the official religion, and all citizens must be Muslims. The Government prohibits the public practice of other religions.


Under Shari?a conversion by a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy, a crime punishable by death if the accused does not recant.

Saudi Arabia prohibits public non-Muslim religious activities. Non-Muslim worshippers risk arrest, imprisonment, lashing, deportation, and sometimes torture for engaging in overt religious activity that attracts official attention.

The Government has stated publicly, including before the U.N. Committee on Human Rights in Geneva, that its policy is to protect the right of non-Muslims to worship privately; however, it does not provide explicit guidelines--such as the number of persons permitted to attend and acceptable locations--for determining what constitutes private worship, which makes distinctions between public and private worship unclear. Such lack of clarity, as well as instances of arbitrary enforcement by the authorities, force most non-Muslims to worship in such a manner as to avoid discovery by the Government or others. Those detained for non-Muslim worship almost always are deported by authorities after sometimes lengthy periods of arrest during investigation. In some cases, they also are sentenced to receive lashes prior to deportation.

The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services, although some come under other auspices and perform religious functions in secret. Such restrictions make it very difficult for most non-Muslims to maintain contact with clergymen and attend services. Catholics and Orthodox Christians, who require a priest on a regular basis to receive the sacraments required by their faith, particularly are affected.

Proselytizing by non-Muslims, including the distribution of non-Muslim religious materials such as Bibles, is illegal. Muslims or non-Muslims wearing religious symbols of any kind in public risk confrontation with the Mutawwa'in. Under the auspices of the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, approximately 50 so-called "Call and Guidance" centers employing approximately 500 persons work to convert foreigners to Islam. Some non-Muslim foreigners convert to Islam during their stay in the country. According to official reports, 942 foreign workers converted to Islam in the past year. The press often carries articles about such conversions, including testimonials. The press as well as government officials publicized the conversion of the Italian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia in late 2001.

The Government requires noncitizens to carry Iqamas, or legal resident identity cards, which contain a religious designation for "Muslim" or "non-Muslim."

Members of the Shi?a minority are the subjects of officially sanctioned political and economic discrimination. The authorities permit the celebration of the Shi?a holiday of Ashura in the eastern province city of Qatif, provided that the celebrants do not undertake large, public marches or engage in self-flagellation (a traditional Shi?a practice). The celebrations are monitored by the police. In 2002 observance of Ashura took place without incident in Qatif. No other Ashura celebrations are permitted in the country, and many Shi?a travel to Qatif or to Bahrain to participate in Ashura celebrations. The Government continued to enforce other restrictions on the Shi?a community, such as banning Shi?a books.

Shi?a have declined government offers to build state-supported mosques because they fear the Government would prohibit the incorporation and display of Shi?a motifs in any such mosques. The Government seldom permits private construction of Shi?a mosques. In March 2001, religious police reportedly closed a Shi?a mosque in Hofuf because it had been built without government permission.

Members of the Shi?a minority are discriminated against in government employment, especially with respect to positions that relate to national security, such as in the military or in the Ministry of the Interior. The Government restricts employment of Shi?a in the oil and petrochemical industries. The Government also discriminates against Shi?a in higher education through unofficial restrictions on the number of Shi?a admitted to universities.

Under the provisions of Shari?a law as practiced in the country, judges may discount the testimony of people who are not practicing Muslims or who do not adhere to the official interpretation of Islam. Legal sources report that testimony by Shi?a is often ignored in courts of law or is deemed to have less weight than testimony by Sunnis. For example, in May 2001, a judge in the eastern province ruled that the testimony of two Shi'a witnesses to an automobile accident was inadmissible. Sentencing under the legal system is not uniform. Laws and regulations state that defendants should be treated equally; however, under Shari?a as interpreted and applied in the country, crimes against Muslims may result in harsher penalties than those against non-Muslims. Observers believe that the new Criminal Procedure Law, passed in late 2001 and became effective on May 1, 2002, should give fairer treatment to all defendants.

Customs officials routinely open mail and shipments to search for contraband, including non-Muslim materials, such as Bibles and religious videotapes. Such materials are subject to confiscation, although rules appear to be applied arbitrarily.

Islamic religious education is mandatory in public schools at all levels. All public school children receive religious instruction that conforms with the official version of Islam. Non-Muslim students in private schools are not required to study Islam. No private religious schools are permitted for non-Muslims.


In October 2000, AI reported that two Ismaili Shi?a teachers, who were arrested in April 2000 following the unrest, were convicted on charges of sorcery and sentenced to 1,500 lashes; however, this report could not be confirmed. In May 2001, independent sources in Najran reported that the Government had during the year since the riot removed dozens of natives of Najran from government jobs in the region to work elsewhere in the country.

The Government continued to detain non-Muslims engaged in worship services. Between June and August 2001 in Jeddah, 14 Christians were arrested and imprisoned for months, reportedly on charges of conducting public worship services and attempting to proselytize. Early in 2002, 11 of the detainees were deported and, in March 2002, the remaining 3 Christians, 2 Ethiopians and 1 Filipino, were deported. Prior to their release, they claimed in a publicly and internationally circulated e-mail letter that some of them had been tortured by the authorities while in prison.

In early 2002 in the eastern city of Abqaiq, 2 Filipino Christian residents were arrested and imprisoned in Dammam for conducting a Roman Catholic prayer group in their home. In April 2002, the 2 Filipinos were sentenced to 150 lashes and deportation following a 30-day jail sentence, allegedly for their religious beliefs. They were deported in late May 2002.

In April 2002, Saudi police and Mutawwa'in detained a total of 26 Christians in successive raids on 2 private houses where worship services were being held in a residential area of downtown Riyadh. One of those originally arrested later reported that after 2 days, 23 of the Christians were released, but that 3, 1 Sudanese and 2 Sri Lankans, were kept in detention and moved to another Riyadh prison. Their Saudi sponsors believe that the three men probably will be deported following a trial. Following these raids, the authorities returned to one of the private houses and confiscated chairs, Bibles, musical instruments, a microphone, and curtains that they ripped from the walls.

In May 2002, Saudi police and Mutawwa'in detained a total of 11 Christians, including foreign nationals from both Ethiopia and Eritrea, then living in the Jeddah area at the end of the period covered by this report. They allegedly had been engaged in activities that violated restrictions against public worship. Of the 11, 3 had been deported and 8 remained in prison.

There were reports during the period covered by this report that authorities interrogated members of the tiny Baha?i community regarding the size and status of their community, although there were no reports of any additional actions taken against them.

Magic is widely believed in and sometimes practiced, often in the form of fortune-telling and swindles; however, under Shari?a, the practice of magic is regarded as the worst form of polytheism, an offense for which no repentance is accepted and which is punishable by death. There are an unknown number of detainees held in prison on the charge of "sorcery," including the practice of "black magic" or "witchcraft." In a few cases, self-proclaimed "miracle workers" have been executed for sorcery involving physical harm or apostasy.


Forced Religious Conversion

Under the law, children of Saudi fathers are considered Muslim, regardless of the county or the religious tradition in which they may have been raised. In some cases, children raised in other countries and in other religious traditions who came to Saudi Arabia or who were taken by their Saudi fathers to Saudi Arabia reportedly were coerced to conform to Islamic norms and practices, although forcible conversion is prohibited. There were no reports of the forced religious conversion of minor U.S. citizens who had been abducted or illegally removed from the United States during the period covered by this report, or of the Government?s refusal to allow such citizens to be returned to the United States. However, there was a report that prior to the period covered by this report, at least one U.S. citizen child in the country was subjected to pressure--and at times force--by her Saudi relatives to renounce Christianity and conform to Islamic norms and practices. The child has since returned to the United States.

Anti-Semitism

Saudia Arabia publishes and distributes many books and articles promoting anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. Saudi Arabian government officials and state religious leaders often promote the idea that "the Jews" are conspiring to take over the entire world; as proof of their claims they publish and frequenlty cite the anti-Semitic forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as factual.

Saudai Arabian government-sponsored newspapers have pubished articles claiming that Al Qaeda's 9/11/01 attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was actually carried out by "the Jews", also "the Zionists".

Many Saudi governmen newspapers promote the idea that a Jewish conspiracy pressed American President George W. Bush to go to war against Iraq.

Many Saudi Arabians promotes many anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, such as the idea that Jews use Barbie dolls to corrupt the morals of Muslim youths, and that the children's card game Pokémon was part of a "Zionist conspiracy" to promote gambling.

Saudia Arabian government newspapers state that hatred of all Jews is justifiable. "Why are they (the Jews) hated by all the people which hosted them, such as Iraq and Egypt thousands years ago, and Germany, Spain, France and the UK, up to the days they gained of power over the capital and the press, in order to rewrite the history?" (Al-Riyadh, Saudi government daily, April 15, 2002, Turki 'Abdallah as-Sudayri, All of History is against Them)

According to reports from the U.S. Department of State, non-Muslims are discriminated against in many nations. This is discussed in the following articles:

http://www.fact-index.com/d/di/discrimination_against_non_muslims_in_saudi_arabia.html

http://www.fact-index.com/d/di/discrimination_against_non_muslims_in_afghanistan.html
http://www.fact-index.com/d/di/discrimination_against_non_muslims_in_iran.html
http://www.fact-index.com/d/di/discrimination_against_non_muslims_in_malaysia.html
http://www.fact-index.com/i/is/islam_and_mauritanian_law.html
http://www.fact-index.com/d/di/discrimination_against_non_muslims_in_pakistan.html
http://www.fact-index.com/d/di/discrimination_against_non_muslims_in_sudan.html


note, not a peep from the palestinian apologists about this of course. the fact that arab citizens and arab women in israel have far more rights then most other arab states... always ignored. what else can you call this lack of even handedness besides antisemistism

 

[Chris S]

Israel won the currently occupied territories in 1967, to the winner go the spoils. Particularly since the Arab states in the area amassed troops, cut off supply lines and basically came out and said they were going to bury them. Not only should they not give the land back, if they are continually attacked, they should wipe the Palestinians from the Earth, they are no better than any other terrorist agents. I like they way the IDF does business, you hit us, we will hit you ten times harder. All in all, they have practiced incredible restraint. Hit them quick and hard and keep moving. Worked for Sherman, worked at Hiroshima, just hand them their a$$.

 

[0roo0roo]

but thats not true. atleast the part about hitting back 10 times harder. it is the restraint of the israelis that the palestinians exploit. it is why they CAN hide behind their women and children. if the israelis had shown the same total disregard for human life that the palestinians have from day one, there would not be a single palestinian left.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

A large & rapidly growing segment of the European population still believes in that.

perhaps you should be more upset about the arab states in the area then. in some its still a crime punishable by death to convert a muslim. amoung the litany of other absurdities common in the region.

Of course, but that doesn't mean you can't point serious problems out elsewhere. I'm especially critical of developed & prosperous countries.

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

How dare you compare those two?! :disgust:

It is the same Germany that caused jews around the world to realize they need Israel.

ISRAEL = STATE FOR THE JEWS!

ISRAEL HAS TO MAINTAIN JEWISH OR ELSE ISRAEL CONCEPT = USELESS.

Get it?!

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Since the Jews and Arabs in Israel will likely continue to kill each other for the next thousand years, and since the ultimate death toll will probably vastly exceed the numbers alive there today, it strikes me that the only humane thing for the world to do is to completely exterminate both sides and reopen the land for settlement by people who know how to get along. No?

Dear God, WTF are you talking about?!

What are you, 12 years old or something?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

How dare you compare those two?! :disgust:

It is the same Germany that caused jews around the world to realize they need Israel.

ISRAEL = STATE FOR THE JEWS!

ISRAEL HAS TO MAINTAIN JEWISH OR ELSE ISRAEL CONCEPT = USELESS.

Get it?!

So if the Israeli Arab population explodes, what do you propose? Aren't they already growing faster?

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

How dare you compare those two?! :disgust:

It is the same Germany that caused jews around the world to realize they need Israel.

ISRAEL = STATE FOR THE JEWS!

ISRAEL HAS TO MAINTAIN JEWISH OR ELSE ISRAEL CONCEPT = USELESS.

Get it?!

So if the Israeli Arab population explodes, what do you propose? Aren't they already growing faster?

Yes, Israel is aware of that. they have kids in a rate far more than an average jewish family.as a result they get more money from the state since the more kids a citizen has, the more money he gets to support each and every one of them.

Just to show you they got full rights!!

Israel is addressing this by encoureging jews from abroad to immigrate to Israel...

In 1948, there were ~150,000... now there are ~1.5M if I am not mistaken.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

How dare you compare those two?! :disgust:

It is the same Germany that caused jews around the world to realize they need Israel.

ISRAEL = STATE FOR THE JEWS!

ISRAEL HAS TO MAINTAIN JEWISH OR ELSE ISRAEL CONCEPT = USELESS.

Get it?!

That's exactly why Israel will fail as a nation. You know if this was coming from someone in the U.S. or Europe who was preaching the same type of racial purity or religious purity they would be branded as racists or religious bigots.


P.S. You can subsitute Germany with Zimbabwe then.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Why is it that poeple who are non-jewish but Israeli citizens can't own land in Isreal ?

from what i remember, most land can't be owned, it can only be leased from the government.

n/m found it http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/human_rts_in_Israel.html 92% government owned.

They are not allowed to join the Army or hold jobs in defense industry. Israeli Arabs have been barred from buying property in Jewish areas.

http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2000/10/04/p6s1.htm

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

How dare you compare those two?! :disgust:

It is the same Germany that caused jews around the world to realize they need Israel.

ISRAEL = STATE FOR THE JEWS!

ISRAEL HAS TO MAINTAIN JEWISH OR ELSE ISRAEL CONCEPT = USELESS.

Get it?!

That's exactly why Israel will fail as a nation. You know if this was coming from someone in the U.S. or Europe who was preaching the same type of racial purity or religious purity they would be branded as racists or religious bigots.


P.S. You can subsitute Germany with Zimbabwe then.

What ever you say. but it is our economy that is growing, it is our army that is is the strongest in the area, it is our Air-Force that is one of the best in the wrold - BTW, IAF had an air-combat with USAF and Germany's Luftwaffe lately and won out both American and German pilots, and by a far margin! (I know for sure they CRUSHED the Luftwaffe).

This nation was near hell in 73' and got over that!

As long as Jews will live here it will continue to exist...

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Why is it that poeple who are non-jewish but Israeli citizens can't own land in Isreal ?

from what i remember, most land can't be owned, it can only be leased from the government.

n/m found it http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/human_rts_in_Israel.html 92% government owned.

They are not allowed to join the Army or hold jobs in defense industry. Israeli Arabs have been barred from buying property in Jewish areas.

http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2000/10/04/p6s1.htm

Sounds like they're equal to me! (i'm being sarcastic)

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

How dare you compare those two?! :disgust:

It is the same Germany that caused jews around the world to realize they need Israel.

ISRAEL = STATE FOR THE JEWS!

ISRAEL HAS TO MAINTAIN JEWISH OR ELSE ISRAEL CONCEPT = USELESS.

Get it?!

That's exactly why Israel will fail as a nation. You know if this was coming from someone in the U.S. or Europe who was preaching the same type of racial purity or religious purity they would be branded as racists or religious bigots.


P.S. You can subsitute Germany with Zimbabwe then.

What ever you say. but it is our economy that is growing, it is our army that is is the strongest in the area, it is our Air-Force that is one of the best in the wrold - BTW, IAF had an air-combat with USAF and Germany's Luftwaffe lately and won out both American and German pilots, and by a far margin! (I know for sure they CRUSHED the Luftwaffe).

This nation was near hell in 73' and got over that!

As long as Jews will live here it will continue to exist...

Israel only survived because we have always supplied and bailed you guys out. Your military would be nothing were it not for U.S. weapon sales and the military aid you receive. Your economy would be in the toilet if it were not for the BILLIONS in foreign welfare you receive from us. Frankly without the support of the U.S. Israel would of never existed and without our continual support you guys would not be around for very long.

 

[nitzanw]

I just want to note three things:

#1. Arab Israelis (Christians and Muslims) *can* serve in the military. I personally know several Arab Israelis who served in the military, even in fighting units.

#2. Arab Israelis *can* own land. There are certain areas which limit who can buy land there. They are not necessarily discrimantory. For example the Arab village of Natzeret in Israel bans Jews from purchasing land.

#3. The USA has not helped Israel with any war (except for the Gulf War if you count that).
Israeli Wars:
1948 - Israel faced the arab armies alone.
1956 - Israel was initially helped by France but they withdrew early from the war and left Israel to fend for itself.
1967 - Israel fought alone. USSR threatened to join the war if the USA helped Israel.
1973 - Same as 1967. The USA was unable to help Israel because of direct threats by the USSR.

In fact, Israel did not receive any US military aid for quite some time, and had to purchase planes from France (Mirage) and develop its own tanks (Merkava).

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente


ISRAEL IS A JEWSIH STATE ? IT WAS BUILT FOR JEWS AND HAS TO MAINTAIN A JEWSIH MAJORITY.

Trente

Yeah the Germans had the same view about Germany and the rest of Europe in 30's-40's. A Europe for and by the so called white European Ayran Christian Race.

How dare you compare those two?! :disgust:

It is the same Germany that caused jews around the world to realize they need Israel.

ISRAEL = STATE FOR THE JEWS!

ISRAEL HAS TO MAINTAIN JEWISH OR ELSE ISRAEL CONCEPT = USELESS.

Get it?!

That's exactly why Israel will fail as a nation. You know if this was coming from someone in the U.S. or Europe who was preaching the same type of racial purity or religious purity they would be branded as racists or religious bigots.


P.S. You can subsitute Germany with Zimbabwe then.

What ever you say. but it is our economy that is growing, it is our army that is is the strongest in the area, it is our Air-Force that is one of the best in the wrold - BTW, IAF had an air-combat with USAF and Germany's Luftwaffe lately and won out both American and German pilots, and by a far margin! (I know for sure they CRUSHED the Luftwaffe).

This nation was near hell in 73' and got over that!

As long as Jews will live here it will continue to exist...

Israel only survived because we have always supplied and bailed you guys out. Your military would be nothing were it not for U.S. weapon sales and the military aid you receive. Your economy would be in the toilet if it were not for the BILLIONS in foreign welfare you receive from us. Frankly without the support of the U.S. Israel would of never existed and without our continual support you guys would not be around for very long.

In 48' when the war started the day after Ben-Gurion declared the creation of Israel, the might of 5 combined countries around Israel, prepared to invade it. General Bernard Montgomery ('Monty') who led the British against axis power in north-Africa and later in France, said that Israel would not last 2 weeks when faced with the militry strength it had at that time; there is no need to mention that no nation really backed us back then, let alone the U.S...

Guess good ol' Monty was wrong!

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
dense would be to ignore the origins and actual intent of the creator of the term of anti semitism. play games all you want, but thats all you are doing. your self justified hatred is such that you cannot apply standards of judgement in an rational even handed manner. just remember, the palestinians once allied themselves with hitler and agreed to carry out their portion of the final solution, and all you can do is talk of zionism?

i don't hate anyone, i simply dissagree with zionist ideology.

as for the supposed "creator of the term of anti semitism", that is an absurd notion. the term "semite" has been around for ages as has the prefix "anti", you can't just take the terms and put them together and give them a meaning which exludes part of the oringal meaning, at least not without being a biggot.

as to your comment about the Palestinians allieing themselves with hitler, i don't see any reason to hold that agaisnt them any more than i do the Germans; that was a long time ago and most of those people are dead now.

 

[0roo0roo]

apparently too lazy to google the term anti semite to find out who coined the term. not all things are so literal unless your willing to argue a black person is quite literally black.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Why is it that poeple who are non-jewish but Israeli citizens can't own land in Isreal ?

from what i remember, most land can't be owned, it can only be leased from the government.

n/m found it http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/human_rts_in_Israel.html 92% government owned.

They are not allowed to join the Army or hold jobs in defense industry. Israeli Arabs have been barred from buying property in Jewish areas.

http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2000/10/04/p6s1.htm

Sounds like they're equal to me! (i'm being sarcastic)

The Status of Israeli Arabs
by Mitchell Bard

Roughly 18% of Israel?s more than six million citizens are Arabs. The vast majority (81%) of Israeli Arabs are Muslims. Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Arabs currently hold ten seats in the Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts.

Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel. At the time of Israel?s founding, only one Arab high school was operating, today, there are hundreds of Arab schools. Most Arabs attend these schools.

The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This was to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, many Arabs have volunteered for military duty and the Druze and Circassian communities are subject to the draft.

Some economic and social gaps between Israeli Jews and Arabs result from the latter not serving in the military. Veterans qualify for many benefits and jobs not available to non-veterans. Moreover, the army aids in the socialization process. On the other hand, Arabs do have an advantage obtaining some jobs during the years Israelis are in the military. In addition, industries like construction and trucking have come to be dominated by Israeli Arabs.

While there is no institutional segregation, Jews and Arabs have chosen to live separately in all but a handful of cities. Israelis all recognize that Arab villages have historically received less funding than Jewish areas and this has affected the quality of Arab schools, infrastructure and social services. Arabs are also underrepresented in higher education and most industries.

Israeli Jews and Arabs have surprisingly little contact with each other. Most young people study at different elementary and secondary schools and may not come into contact with one another until college; by then, many preconceived opinions have been formed. This lack of interaction exacerbates tensions between the two communities.

Israeli Arabs also face their own conflicts as Palestinians in a Jewish state. While identifying with the Palestinian people and disputing Israel's identification as a Jewish state, they see their future tied to Israel. They have adopted Hebrew as a second language and Israeli culture as an extra layer in their lives. At the same time, they strive to attain a higher degree of participation in national life, greater integration into the economy and more benefits for their own towns and villages.

Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During Israel?s wars, none engaged in acts of sabotage or disloyalty. In some instances, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists.


http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/arabstat.html

 

[kylebisme]

bah, i don't see any reason to waste my time googling for that crap. i know it was some German in the late 19 century that popularised the term and gave it the meaning you hold to it; and he was clearly a biggot.

 

[nemesismk2]

<deleted>

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: nitzanw
I just want to note three things:

#1. Arab Israelis (Christians and Muslims) *can* serve in the military. I personally know several Arab Israelis who served in the military, even in fighting units.

#2. Arab Israelis *can* own land. There are certain areas which limit who can buy land there. They are not necessarily discrimantory. For example the Arab village of Natzeret in Israel bans Jews from purchasing land.

#3. The USA has not helped Israel with any war (except for the Gulf War if you count that).
Israeli Wars:
1948 - Israel faced the arab armies alone.
1956 - Israel was initially helped by France but they withdrew early from the war and left Israel to fend for itself.
1967 - Israel fought alone. USSR threatened to join the war if the USA helped Israel.
1973 - Same as 1967. The USA was unable to help Israel because of direct threats by the USSR.

In fact, Israel did not receive any US military aid for quite some time, and had to purchase planes from France (Mirage) and develop its own tanks (Merkava).

The Six-Day War, 1967

In six days during June 1967, the Israeli military devastated the air and ground forces of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan and occupied the Sinai, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, the West Bank (an area west of the Jordan River), including East Jerusalem. The Six-Day War established Israel as the premier military power in the Middle East. Israel's might was a product of American money and French armaments, in addition to dedicated personnel. The war also established the idea of Israel as a U.S. strategic asset in the region.

The Strategic Relationship and Aid to Israel

The idea of a strategic relationship between the United States and Israel emerged after the Suez crisis, when the Eisenhower administration realized that both countries had an interest in containing Nasser's influence. Because the Eisenhower administration feared that the Soviets were gaining clout in some Arab countries, such a relationship was seen as useful in containing the Soviet Union as well. When John F. Kennedy became president, he abandoned an initial preference for a balance of power between Israel and the Arabs in favor of a strategic relation ship. He was the first to provide Israel with sophisticated weapons and to commit the United States to a policy of maintaining Israel's regional military superiority. In 1962 Kennedy privately told Israeli foreign minister Golda Meir that their countries were de facto allies, and shortly before his assassination, Kennedy reportedly guaranteed Israel's territorial integrity in a letter to Prime Minister Eshkol.(132)

As the U.S.-Israeli strategic relationship matured, military and economic aid increased. But that increase does not mean the earlier aid had been insignificant. According to historian Nadav Safran: "During Israel's first nineteen years of existence, the United States awarded it nearly $1.5 billion of aid in various forms, mostly outright grants of one kind or another. On a per capita basis of recipient country, this was the highest rate of American aid given to any country."(133)

During the Yom Kippur War, Kissinger ordered four ships of the Sixth Fleet to within 500 miles of Israel and initiated a UN strategy aimed at tying up the Soviets and delaying a cease-fire resolution. As he later put it, "We wanted to avoid this [cease-fire] while the attacking side was gaining territory, because it would reinforce the tendency to use the United Nations to ratify the gains of surprise attack."(150) The Israelis asked for arms, but Kissinger was reluctant to comply, believing that Israel was well armed already, that the war would be short, and therefore that a resupply would unnecessarily anger the Arabs. But Kissinger did not want to appear to desert Israel, which he thought might harden its position, so he had arms sent secretly, a policy publicly ratified by Nixon on October 9. While the airlift of equipment was still covert, U.S. planes flew directly to the Israeli troops in the occupied Sinai, a violation of Egypt's territory.(151)

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-159.html


Those arms in 1973 included much needed tanks.

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: dahunan
If Jesus came back he would try to counsel your people and you would probably kill him again

Maybe Jewish people didn't like Jesus because he was telling them that the Old Testament was TOO BLOODY and that there should be a new way of life.

Omg ROFLMAO hahahah LOL. Jesus was destined to die as a martyr, does it really matter who killed him? Roman soldiers did it not the jews, this reply has Hitler written all over it.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: dahunan
If Jesus came back he would try to counsel your people and you would probably kill him again

Maybe Jewish people didn't like Jesus because he was telling them that the Old Testament was TOO BLOODY and that there should be a new way of life.

Omg ROFLMAO hahahah LOL. Jesus was destined to die as a martyr, does it really matter who killed him? Roman soldiers did it not the jews, this reply has Hitler written all over it.

More importantly that that, the Jewish people where God's chosen, the best that humanity had to offer, as such no better could possibly be expected from any other group of people, but much worse can.