An open letter to TA ECCp-109 and Team AnandTech

[Baldy18]

Originally posted by: networkman
LOL, but there is no life, there are no alien signals. Nobody is out there.

Based on that comment, some might even suspect there's a sore lack of intelligent life on this planet.

You can call me stupid too but I agree, there is no intelligent life on any other planets. I would go into my religious beliefs about that but the crowd in this thread scares me. As far as stats go SETI is the king in my book. What can I say I'm a competition junkie.

 

[zeruty]

ARGH, I just lost my response due to another program commandeering this browser window, navigating it away, and now what I've written is gone :\


anyways....

I'm sorry that I'm not more active in the DC forum on behalf of ECCp...
I've been fairly busy lately, and I've been usually only checking eccp stats while on my break at work (and the computer there has been locked down, so I cant actually log in to post, so I just dont post while there), I havent been at my computer at home very much at all lately....

I've also been occupied with my own forum, which is currently serving as the TA SETI offsite forum...
I offered to host the offsite forum because I thought it would be of benefit to the team, at least part of it.... and I believe it has been helpful to the seti team

any ECCp team members are welcome there, I could even create eccp forums on there, but it seems to me as if the eccp team is already spread too thin, so to ask them to post in two places would simply lower the total number of posts overall....

I wish there was something more I could do for the ECCp team, all of my computers are currently running it, except for my laptop which is on the virge of dying (and I'd rather maintain as long of life for it as possible, so I'm not gonna run a DC on it....

I've got a few of my friends running eccp under my mini-team name, TeAm_Irc.Deception.Net (adeno AKA adelacru being more productive than I) and I will continue to try and recruit more members, but it is difficult for me to do so...
I work for a computer store, which may sound like its a good recruiting oppurtunity but I cant exactly just suggest to every customer to run a DC project (although today there was a guy who had 6 computers at his house, and more at his parents and friends' houses and stuff... I asked him if he did DC, he said his friend did... I gave him the url www.teamanandtech.com and he seemed really excited to get it so I think he'll be signing up for some project soon...)

anyways... I'll do as much as I can for the team, but I am afraid that won't be very much....

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: gogeeta13
We all have our opinions, and while I base mine on facts, I fully support people who do their projects for the fun of it and stats and all, but I just don't agree on life being out there.

Wait a minute here... I've seen several comments by members who think we are alone in the universe. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't agree but that's okay. That's what makes us all different. However, you can't say you base these thinkings on fact. You can't prove there is no intelligent life outside earth any more than I can prove there is.

Originally posted by: gogeeta13
I see I am bringing out lots of dark sides from people, :disgust:....

EDit: I am sorry MM, I have been screwing up your thread. If anybody would like to flame me and continue this, PM me, I would be glad to discuss.

NWM: :disgust: ---> hahaha

RE: "dark sides" Anytime you question the validity or purpose of a DC project you're going to draw negative response by those who run it. You're also likely to cause the project you're running more harm than good. You've been around here long enough to know that by now.

 

[gogeeta13]

fact Pronunciation Key (fkt)
n.
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

2. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
3. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.

From : http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=fact

No real occurances have shown that life exists. All research that has been done has shown no other intelligent life exists. Their has never been a real occurance of other life.

Therefore, there is no other intelligent life in this universe. That is a fact. Until proven differently, it is a fact. "Could be" Is only an opinion. Saying that there "could be life" is a statement of you opinion.

 

[LiveLongAndProsper]

With all due respect gogeeta13, your statement is also an opinion.
Beyond our solar system, there are no real occurances or demonstrations that other life exists just as there are no real occurances or demonstrations that life does not exist.
The knowlege/information is lacking to support a claim of fact for either side of the argument.

 

[networkman]

FACT: The Earth is flat.
- Wrong!

FACT: The Sun revolves around the Earth.
- Wrong!

FACT: Man was not meant to nor will he ever fly.
- Wrong!

FACT: We'll never break the sound barrier.
- Wrong!

Anyone see a pattern delevoping here with some our once established facts??

 

[MereMortal]

I see a pattern---it appears to be a an ever-growing, steaming pile of thread crap.

But why should I care, right?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: MereMortal
I see a pattern---it appears to be a an ever-growing, steaming pile of thread crap.

But why should I care, right?

MereMortal: This is your thread. You started it, you wanted reaction, and you got it. Apparently it's not what you were looking for but it's been among the top 10 DC threads the for the past 2 days. I didn't agree with the methods in your original post and I clearly stated that in my reply but I think you did the right thing (as the leader of the TA ECCp project) in calling attention to the situation. However, this thread has gone from that to where you see it now and since then you've made 2 posts. It's like you tossed gas on hot coals and walked away only to come back and ask why there's a fire. What did you expect?

Anyway, I'm sick of the anti-whateverproject posts and I'm sick of the fighting. This crap reminds me of the debates in the OT forum. I'm tired of it and I'm not going to do it anymore. Flame me, support me, I don't care. This will be my last post in this thread...

 

[zeruty]

No real occurances have shown that life exists. All research that has been done has shown no other intelligent life exists. Their has never been a real occurance of other life.

Therefore, there is no other intelligent life in this universe. That is a fact. Until proven differently, it is a fact. "Could be" Is only an opinion. Saying that there "could be life" is a statement of you opinion.

fact is what is proven. what is not proven, but believed to be true (at least by some people) is called a theory

It is not a fact that extraterrestrial life exists, nor is it a fact that it does not exist.

I have ten fingers.... that is a fact, because I know it to be true and I have proof.
I theorize based upon all available evidence and my own personal life experiences that you have 10 fingers.
that doesnt make it a fact. until it is PROVEN, it is not a fact...
when you are trying to prove something, thereby making it a fact, the burden of proof is upon you.... The party that wants to prove extraterrestrial life does not exist must prove that to be true.
The only proven fact to date is that there hasn't been any other intelligent life found YET.

Now if someone were to say "it is a fact that extraterrestrial life exists", then the burden of proof would be upon them... they would have to prove it... for instance, by finding an artificial signal in space, created by a species other than human... and hey, what do ya know, that's part of what SETI is trying to do.

Anyways, until you show me proof that you have personally searched every square inch of every single planet/moon/asteroid in the universe, you can not tell me that it is a fact that no other life exists in the universe.



This is not meant to be a flame or anything.....

and this thread is not even about seti, or anything else except for eccp, so I think it's time everyone dropped all things non-eccp related...

 

[daweasel]

Since this has become a SETI vs ECCp thing.

You guys just took a serious blow.

 

[IJump]

If you don't want to see a post from a pissed off guy, skip this one. :| It is not politically correct, and I don't really care if anyone takes it personally or think I am flaming.
























Here is my take on this whole thing:

I have just lost a good deal of respect for several members of this team.:|

I can't believe that anyone would say that one project is more valid than any other as if it were fact.:|

I am getting really disenfranchised with this entire team. You wonder why we are falling back in a lot of the projects? You wonder why the activity level in this forum is dropping? Re-read this thread. I can hear the other teams laughing at us as I type.:|

Interteam trades are fine (Seti Cavalry), interteam recruitment (sniping) sucks.:|

I have done several projects, if you don't like that I don't currently fold or do ECCP or that I don't search for a cure for cancer, you can piss off. I do whatever project I want. I feel like I contribute to more than just SETI or RC5 or whatever project I happen to be running by helping out with problems for anyone on the team. Each person should be able to choose whatever the hell they want to do without having crap like this go on.:|

Stop whining if you don't like that SETI has a lot of threads, post something else.:|

Am I happy, no...I come in here for some of the good old TA DC forum threads and get crap like this. :|

No winkies or smilies from me today.......:|

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: daweasel
Since this has become a SETI vs ECCp thing.

You guys just took a serious blow.

I know I said I was done posting but this just pisses me off...

"You guys"??? Who are you referring to? Um, why are you in this thread? This is a Team Anandtech distributed computing forum and a Team Anandtech discussion. Looking at your sig you are not part of anyTeam Anandtech distributed computing project in this topic. If I'm wrong, please let me know and I'll retract that statement. If not, please stay out of these matters and tend to your own team.

 

[ViRGE]

Just my 2.42 yen:

Intra-team recruiting has been prohibited since day 1, and was affirmed durring the Alien-Cow Wars. Period. We have always been willing to lend a hand in a PTE, or to help take some landmark, but the overall mood is still that you are not to be looking for permanent recruits out of your own team mates.

More importantly however, is goals. Above anything else, make sure you're having fun. You aren't happy? Leave. Mods make you mad? Leave. You have the urge to be a traitor and join Team Evanglista(the Macs)? Leave. The first goal of this team has always been that we're all here to have fun; this is why we have the GameBox, and races, and try to take #1. Pick whatever project represents you the best, and run it to your heart's content. I run RC5 myself because I can clobber most of the team even with my small stockpile of Macs, which is fun for me - and I intend to complete RC5 not only as a testiment to what TA has done, but because completing it is fun for me. If you lose sight of fun in your arguments, or your rankings, or your races, then you've already lost far more than you'll ever gain.

It's for this reason I'll say this: grow young, people. Those who came before you, the ones who talked to Anand and got this team going had the right idea. These people started TA because they wanted to have fun, as they knew that the odds at the time of taking 1st from then RC5 kings Evanglista were minimal. They got permission to start a forum, then started conversing, scheming, and recruiting. They plotted the first PTE to scare one ViRGE snotless(and it worked), even if it meant that they took a hit in the stats, and even if it meant the team took a hit in the stats for a bit. When SETI came along, they got in to the Alien-Cow Wars, and unlike you, worked it out without true flaming, name-calling, or anything else unworthy of calling oneself a member of Team AnandTech. And when the dust settled, they went back to having fun, now with twice as many projects to do it with, and a reputation of being able to handle themselves in the worst of times.

But what do they leave behind?

I see a pattern---it appears to be a an ever-growing, steaming pile of thread crap.

But why should I care, right?

Please, put the mirror away and quit looking at yourself for one moment, and look around instead. If you aren't having fun, don't ruin it for other people(and in the converse, don't have fun by ruining it for other people). If you don't have anything nice to say, be like those who came before you: don't say a thing. Just please, above all, remember one thing: Team AnandTech is about having fun. All your problems and all your frustrations go away when you sit down and see that you're the root of your own evil.

<-- Been here since day 1, and frustrated with those too "old-thinking" to do the right thing

 

[Evadman]

Alright... everyone get out of your computer chairs. Take a walk around your house or building.

Back? Feel better? Good.

We are all on the same team. Believe it or not, I come to AT for the comraderie, not anything else. I don't care what you are cruching for, or hell, even if you crunch in the first place. Were just a bunch of people who get together online and have meaningfull ( most of the time ) discussions. Lets cut the crap about which project is better, what benifits society gets, and who does what. It doesn't really matter.

Lets get back to what we were when I joined the TeAm those years ago, a bunch of fun-loving people.

 

[Baldy18]

daweasel I would like to be the first to appologise to you. I hope that you will understand that the feelings of some don't represent the feelings of all or even any of the other members of this team.

Meremortal I don't blame you for not posting in here. You could try to keep these guys civil but they never listen.

IJump I agree.

 

[n0cmonkey]

I havent read the entire thread (saw something about a flame war that I dont want to be a part of), but I wanted to say that I will be trying to be more active in the Eccp project. But it will have to wait a couple of weeks to really get going for me. Ive been much busier lately than I had been in a long time and its taken its toll.

Sorry it had to come down to something like this MM. We'll see if we can get this team back to where it should be.

 

[zeruty]

Just for clarification... in my last post, I wasn't trying to take sides, either for or against seti or any other project... I was just debating the meaning of the word fact because I believed an incorrect interpretation was being used to argue a side....


I personally run ECCp, and I enjoy ECCp immensely more than I enjoyed SETI, for many reasons... but I do not think this makes SETI a bad project. Nor do I think any other DC project the team is involved with is a bad project....


trying to bring this thread back on topic.....

I do believe there must be things us ECCP'ers can do to improve our position in the rankings and our production level.... I unfortunately do not know what these things are....
perhaps, since this thread is already crapped, we should start a new, brainstorming thread for all ECCp'ers (and any other team members who feel urged to help) can discuss potential ideas to raise our team output....

 

[gogeeta13]

Here's my last post in this thread.

I'm sad, regretful, confused and speechless all at once.

 

[networkman]

I'm publicly apologizing to all those I may have offended. I'm sorry.

Yes, I tend to get a little worked up about things, needlessly so, as evidenced by recent posts. I'll shut up now and try to get back on topic.

 

[daweasel]

Didn't really word that right. I just meant that the SETI project as a whole took a big blow with the cheating scandal thats about to hit SETI.

It's sad when so many people put in hard work like that ( like probably 99% of the people on TA SETI) and because of poor project management/ the people that cheat that it may very well be put to shame. "You guys" (SETI people) really took it the wrong way.

The whole DC world in general isn't doing well. RC5 chances are we missed the point somehow and now it's possible that people have been invalidadating SETI work.

 

[MereMortal]

I thank people for their responses (really). For the record, no one needs to apologize to me. It takes a great deal more that what has gone on here to offend me. Note that I can be quite sarcastic, and you are going to get big dose of it again below.


Feel free to blame me for all the troubles in this thread and in TA in general (if you haven't already done so). I apparently am the root of all evil in TA, and have been exposed for the childish, egomaniacal, project-bashing, project-sniping, elder-rule-violating, do-anything-to-destroy-the-team bastard that I am (notify me if I've forgotten any of my diabolical schemes; there's just so many to keep track of, you know). I hadn't realized until now just how powerful that I am -- perhaps some of you should reconsider how you address me. Even better, perhaps you should banish me. With me gone, everything will be all peaches and cream. Think what a wonderful world that would be, where no one would have to follow this advice:

If you're unhappy and you know it, run away; <clip><clop>
If you're unhappy and you know it, run away; <clip><clop>
If you're unhappy and you know it, and you really want to show it,
If you're unhappy and you know it, run away. <clip><clop>


Sorry to inform some of you, but I'm not out to take anybody's fun away, or punish anyone, nor am I unhappy. And I'm not in the habit of running away at the first sign of trouble, either. I'm sorry, ViRGE, but you can't get rid of me that easily.

If there are wonderous guidelines from the days of yore that are important to maintaining a team, shouldn't those be made public somewhere instead of propping up someone's dinner table? Perhaps then members wouldn't get lambasted for things they might know nothing about unless they were an initiate of the seventh circle of TA.


Like me or dislike me, it matters not in the big scheme of things. There are potentially damaging issues that have surfaced in this thread, and burying your head in the sand and thinking happy thoughts isn't going to make them go away. But you always have the alternative, blame MereMortal.

 

[PeterN]

childish, egomaniacal, project-bashing, project-sniping, elder-rule-violating, do-anything-to-destroy-the-team bastard

hehe, I know there was something about you, but I never could pinpoint it. Glad you solved this long-time puzzle for me.

 

[daweasel]

Just to clarify one thing. It is possible to be a member of two different teams.

Robor accuses me of having no say in this thread, but up until him saying that I was still cracking for TA in RC5. I will no longer. Of course Robor says he didn't care because it only hurt RC5 and not him. So whats it matter.

I do want to bring up a couple things from my pm to him.

He said I had no proof of SETI members trying to recruit ECCp members and I actually went back and found 3 threads where SETI guys were stealing/recruting ECCp guys. I decided not to post it, because I didn't want to throw fuel on the fire. See I backed off unlike most of the people on that thread.

Then he accussed me of changing the meaning of the "You guys just took a serious blow" post.

So here's my comment on that

And my comment most certainly had everything to do with the cheats that are being found out in SETI. Go look at the timing that my post had to the SETI cheat post over at Ars. It is after it. You guys felt it necessary to fill up that thread with all these SETI is great things. I hadn't even read the thread in a day. I just wanted to point out not everything was as rosy as you were making it out to be.

Then I just felt like adding this.

The disrespect for MM by alot of the TA SETI members is plain uncalled for. He probably does as much for TA as anyone, but because it's not SETI then everyone jumps down his throat. Imagine is Smokeball had posted the same thing. Would all the SETI members be jumping down his throat? No.

Since I'm no longer a "member" of TA. Although I was in one project until last night. ( trust me my little contribution to TA RC5 wasn't much lately and TA gets to keep the points ) I am here by pulling out of this thread to make Robor happy. If you want to discuss anything I said it here, please feel free to PM me here or at my team site (<- you'll get a quicker response here)

I do want to say that MM is a good guy and does ALOT for TA. I wish some people would take off their "tinted"(biased) glasses and see this. BTW- No where in that first post does MM EVER say stop cruching SETI and join up with ECCp. I wish he would get the respect around here that he deserves, but I guess that won't happen. Just remember MM there are places where the people respect you and your work. DC Rankings rulez

Weazy signing off.

Stick in an EDIT BTW- just in case it's not understood. Alot of My anti-SETI sentiments only really directed at the few "elitist", which drag other into thier thinking. Most the TA SETI guys are good guys and I'm not trying to down all of you. The bigger project will always have the elitists, but the Team as a whole needs to try respect and sometimes even encourage the other projects, which sometime means concessions.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: daweasel Just to clarify one thing. It is possible to be a member of two different teams.

Robor accuses me of having no say in this thread, but up until him saying that I was still cracking for TA in RC5. I will no longer. Of course Robor says he didn't care because it only hurt RC5 and not him. So whats it matter.

Funny how you can twist things... I wouldn't normally post anything said in a PM but since you've done it I will defend myself. This is a direct quote of what I said to daweasel... "That's your choice. Your doing that doesn't hurt me, it hurts the rc5 team. My question is, if you're a member of a TA DC team, why do you have a link to a team in direct competition with them?" <<< That wasn't a knock against the rc5 team. Everytime a DC member leaves TA over a dispute with another member or the mods I say the same thing.

Originally posted by: daweasel I do want to bring up a couple things from my pm to him.

He said I had no proof of SETI members trying to recruit ECCp members and I actually went back and found 3 threads where SETI guys were stealing/recruting ECCp guys. I decided not to post it, because I didn't want to throw fuel on the fire. See I backed off unlike most of the people on that thread.

You say you didn't want to throw fuel on the fire? Sorry, but I don't buy it. When you accused the TA SETI team of stealing members from other teams and/or projects you started the fire.

Originally posted by: daweasel Then he accussed me of changing the meaning of the "You guys just took a serious blow" post. So here's my comment on that

And my comment most certainly had everything to do with the cheats that are being found out in SETI. Go look at the timing that my post had to the SETI cheat post over at Ars. It is after it. You guys felt it necessary to fill up that thread with all these SETI is great things. I hadn't even read the thread in a day. I just wanted to point out not everything was as rosy as you were making it out to be.

Please tell me what your "SETI vs. ECCp & You guys took a big blow comment" and alleged SETI cheats have in common. There's a totally different thread discussing SETI cheats. If that was really your intent don't you think it would've made more sense to post it there. Also, what I took offense to was the "You guys" comment. That sure doesn't sound like something one of "us" would say.

Originally posted by: daweasel Then I just felt like adding this.

The disrespect for MM by alot of the TA SETI members is plain uncalled for. He probably does as much for TA as anyone, but because it's not SETI then everyone jumps down his throat. Imagine is Smokeball had posted the same thing. Would all the SETI members be jumping down his throat? No.

It has nothing to do with the project MM is running. I was running ECCp up until this thread got ugly. Don't believe me? Just ask Crazee. For the past few months I've had 3 machines running ECCp under the TA_Seti_Rangers account. This thread caused me to pull the client and put them back on SETI.

Originally posted by: daweasel Since I'm no longer a "member" of TA. Although I was in one project until last night. ( trust me my little contribution to TA RC5 wasn't much lately and TA gets to keep the points ) I am here by pulling out of this thread to make Robor happy. If you want to discuss anything I said it here, please feel free to PM me here or at my team site (<- you'll get a quicker response here)

To make me happy? Right. If you want to make me happy stop accusing our team of cheating.

Originally posted by: daweasel I do want to say that MM is a good guy and does ALOT for TA. I wish some people would take off their "tinted"(biased) glasses and see this. BTW- No where in that first post does MM EVER say stop cruching SETI and join up with ECCp. I wish he would get the respect around here that he deserves, but I guess that won't happen. Just remember MM there are places where the people respect you and your work. DC Rankings rulez

I'm sorry but I lost a lot of respect for MM when he posted that ultimatum. He's done a lot of work for the team but IMO it was wrong to start this thread. I'd also like to point out that nowhere in any of my posts did I accuse MM of asking SETI members to switch to ECCp. Other members may have asked that but he didn't.

Originally posted by: daweasel Weazy signing off.
Stick in an EDIT BTW- just in case it's not understood. Alot of My anti-SETI sentiments only really directed at the few "elitist", which drag other into thier thinking. Most the TA SETI guys are good guys and I'm not trying to down all of you. The bigger project will always have the elitists, but the Team as a whole needs to try respect and sometimes even encourage the other projects, which sometime means concessions.

Look dude, *YOU* are the one who accused the TA SETI team of stealing members and when asked for proof you provided none. You can't just go around accusing teams and members of cheating then run for cover when you're called on the floor, especially when you invited me to visit your new team's website and forum after TA was having issues. Might not have been a direct recruiting attempt but like I told you in my PM response, I doubt you'd like me going into your forum inviting your teams members to visit the TA DC forum. Pot - Kettle - Black...

 

[IJump]

Originally posted by: daweasel

Stick in an EDIT BTW- just in case it's not understood. Alot of My anti-SETI sentiments only really directed at the few "elitist", which drag other into thier thinking. Most the TA SETI guys are good guys and I'm not trying to down all of you. The bigger project will always have the elitists, but the Team as a whole needs to try respect and sometimes even encourage the other projects, which sometime means concessions.

As far as I know, I haven't seen any "elitist" members of any part of team anandtech. Most of the guys with large numbers of computers crunch more that one project, as Robor was doing until just a little while ago. They also help out the new people and people who want to set up networks at home. I have crunched for a lot of projects, ECCP being one of them. Do you see my name on the ECCP team roster? I don't think so. You know why? Because I don't do eccp for me, I do it for one of the mini teams. You will see WUs, Folded stuff, eccp results, RC5 packets, and god knows what else from my computers scattered over many projects for many people. I would have a lot more WUs completed if I was just crunching SETI for just me. Robor and a lot of the other "heavy hitters" are the same way.

BTW - just in case it's not understood. Alot of my sentiments are only directed at the whiners, which drag the whole team down.