An unresolved situation

[mondobyte]

I appreciate all the folks who have expressed support ... I don't want to minimize that in any way.

I guess I have learned a valuable lesson ... don't trust anyone and don't believe anyone ... I tend to trust and believe in everyone and often have been burned. If I were to respond to everyone in the manner that I have been responded to ... I guess I would never, ever, speak to a human being again ... that is clearly not viable so we go ahead and keep stubbing our toes in the hopes that somewhere ... there are honest folks out there ... I hope my faith in humanity is well founded .... I dearly love my wife and she has yet to disappoint me ...

mondo

 

[Insidious]

:thumbsup:

:beer: :beer:

 

[BadThad]

removed myself from the TeAM in the projects that DRingdahl participates in (Rosetta, PrimeGrid, CPDN) ... more or less "going to a neutral corner" while this thread ran it's course.

I can totally understand and respect that.....having been through a similar situation. That said, I did return when I realized that there's far too many good people on this TeAm to leave them dissappointed over the actions of a few.

Besides, my contributions to these projects is marginal and it seemed to me that my withdrawal from these projects temporarily or even permanently would have little or no significance for TeAM in the long run. It was in the line of a political statement rather than a real desire to leave TeAM.

No contribution is marginal, don't under estimate yourself. Every single wu crunched contributes significantly IMO. In any case, we'll leave the light on for you should you decide to come back.

 

[trevinom]

Originally posted by: mondobyte
I appreciate all the folks who have expressed support ... I don't want to minimize that in any way.

I guess I have learned a valuable lesson ... don't trust anyone and don't believe anyone ... I tend to trust and believe in everyone and often have been burned. If I were to respond to everyone in the manner that I have been responded to ... I guess I would never, ever, speak to a human being again ... that is clearly not viable so we go ahead and keep stubbing our toes in the hopes that somewhere ... there are honest folks out there ... I hope my faith in humanity is well founded .... I dearly love my wife and she has yet to disappoint me ...

mondo

I can sympathize with you, Mondo. I prefer to think of it in a similar way. I believe and trust someone until they give me reason to not believe/trust them. Deep inside, most people are honest and well-intentioned. Sometimes, for whatever reason, these people hit bumps, and it's those bumps that we have to watch out for. I would go nuts if I wasn't able to take someone at face value until they turn on me. At that point, you scratch them off of your 'good' list and continue on, otherwise, you become a grouchy, mean wheezer and nobody will want to associate with you.
Keep the faith Mondo.

 

[CheesePoofs]

I don't think its been brought up yet, but has DRingdahl ever explained to you, Mondo, why he didn't send the computer? If he has, and its a reasonable reason, then my vote would be to move on.

I agree with petrusbroder. Too many assumptions seem to have been made with too little knowledge.

EDIT: this is only the conclusion I arrived at after reading this thread. I haven't been here too long, so if there was something I missed, then I appologize for being ill-informed and arriving at this conclusion to early.

 

[scottish144]

I'm sorry but I just have to spew something at this thread:

This thread is about a year old dispute over 1 COMPUTER!!! IMO a computer is NOT worth letting down the TeAm or letting down science. Mondo, how many computers do you have? A lot. Whats one more comp really going to do for you? And like many others have pointed out, DRingdahl has not explained his side of the story yet. Until he does, no one here is entitled to judge on this issue.

I think we're forgetting the point of DC. The entire objective of DC is SCIENCE. DC is about SCIENCE, not who can crunch the most. The more you crunch, the more you deliver to science, and that is IMO the most valuable point of DC in the first place. Granted, competition is all well and good, but it amazes me when I see fellow teammates attack another and make immature geastures over the d@mn NUMBERS!!! And this is the SECOND time in less than a year where TA has temporaily declined in status due to this immature bickering.

Granted, it mostly works out well in the end, with all the injured parties apologizing and what not, but my point is this shouldn't happen in the first place. Now I personally believe that DRingdahl should hand over the comp as he promised, and should explain as to the tardiness fo tis arrival. And he should be given some heat about it. But like I said, no one can truly judge until he comes forth with an explanation.

As for quitting the projects DRingdahl participated in, WTF does that do? His stats are not dependent on yours, Mondo. Quitting hurt the TeAm as a whole. DRingdahl's personal stats remain unaffected. Quitting the projects did as little as sticking ur nose in the air. All contributions made by TeAm members are appreciated, and that is one of the great things about TA. Even my measly P3 1 GHz is respected. However, they are appreciated even more by the scientists who use the data we crunch. When you stop crunching for a project, they lose processing power, and in the case of the bigger players such as Mondo, this loss is significant.

/rant

This is just the conclusion I came to after reading this thread. If there was something I missed, then I appologize for being ill-informed and arriving at this conclusion too early.

 

[GLeeM]

A new guy starts DC all gangbusters. We've seen it before, all excited about this new hobby - and then life or something happens and they lose interest. When he starts DC, the TeAm pumps him up and encourages him. In his excitement, he comes up with a plan to increase participation in his project, a good thing, except that he doesn't specify that it is only for new to DC people (even after I questioned him about that).

Just when he should make good on the promise, life happens - financial, emotional, physical - takes its toll on the new hobby.

He still should make good on the promise.

Now the guy who won the contest has hurt feelings about it and in a moment of :beer: shares with the TeAm.

Give him a break, he even apologized.

OK, the reason for this post - if someone is looking for a project to crunch, TeAmmates can try to sway the decision.

BUT:
The choice is up to the cruncher and he is free to change projects at any time for any reason. He is still helping the TeAm, by doing different science.

The person can even quit and we leave the welcome light on for him. (I am not suggesting anyone quit)

Just trying to put things in perspective

 

[mondobyte]

A clarification:

I have not quit any BOINC project! I did remove myself from TeAM on 3 projects.

Quite a while ago, I decided that CPDN was not appropriate for most of the computers due to the larger memory requirement. I have CPDN running on a handful or less computers.

DRingdahl surfaced on 6 September 2005 and explained that shortly after the contest ended, he had some financial problems and could not send the computer. He indicated that a committment was a committment and said, publicly, that he would send me a DELL and needed my address. I provided that information to him. Privately, he said it would be the end of the month. At that time, I offered that I could call it done and forget about it but he insisted that he needed to meet the commitment and send the prize PC. The least expensive Dell Pentium 4 (not a celeron) 2.4 system at that time was in the $620 range (no monitor) from the DELL Outlet store (PC's built but not purchased or PC's returned) and I offered to let him send me a Flat Panel instead which, at that time, was less $. He said that was fine. October came and went ... no computer. In November, we all were presented with the sudden end of the Find-a-Drug project. In November DRingdahl asked me to help out on the PrimeGrid project -- and said that my prize would be arriving soon. I said that I would commit 10% of my processing power to the project during the month of January. I did that and at the end of January, I ceased PrimeGrid as it is a project that does not really hold any interest for me. It is now February and I feel like I was used again.

In the DELL outlet store, there are several Pentium 4 2800's that were "previously ordered new", "certified refurbished" or "scratch & dent" in the $329 price range. Of course DELL OUTLET computers have limited availability and the selection is limited. There were several and this was the slowest Pentium 4 at the lowest price that is available now. A Celeron 2.53 can be had for as little as $229 although, IMHO, a Celeron 2.53 is not equivalent to an XP2400+ in processing capability but I guess I cannot be that choosy.

The Flat Panel that we previously talked about (a 17" analog) is $219 from the Dell Outlet store and I said I would be willing to pay the difference and upgrade it to a 20".

I even proposed that he just ship me a socket 939 motherboard -- Foxconn 6100K8MA ($65), an inexpensive EPS12v PSU (38.99) and an Opteron 148 Venus -- the lowest priced opteron/athlon64 at NewEgg -- (256) which totals to $359 ... What the heck ... I'd be excstatically happy with just the motherboard and Opteron ... about $321 ... I have everything else required to put it to work in short order.

Based on the premise that he was willing to spend the $ for a low end Dell, I felt like I gave him multiple opportunities to meet the prize committment at a reduced cost. At the time the contest ran, the value of the system that he pledged for the contest would have been in at least $350 at that time using the lowest priced components.

You know it isn't even about the money. I could take my wife out to dinner for Valentine's Day and treat her like a queen for the day and buy her a new watch (I did these things!) and if she didn't get a card and a kiss in the deal ... she would make sure I was reminded of that for the next 10 years. To her, Valentine's Day and other holidays are about the Card and the kiss ... the rest is unnecessary but she'll take it . If this were a trade gone south ... I could and have let it go and marked it off to poor judgement and be done with it. This was a contest and I won the prize! There's no bragging rights to ... nothing. I need my "Card and Handshake" at a minimum. A cheap 8x10 frame with an inkjet certificate - sent by DRingdahl and a personal note explaining why the promised prize is not forthcoming. At least, I would know that he went to some effort. I could put it alongside my FaD certificates. A phone conversation or an electronic note are just not satisfying. To be honest, I feel I got conned with the contest ... and then I feel that I got conned into running PrimeGrid ... and I didn't even get a THANK YOU when the month ended. I feel used, dirty, debased, and cheap. Actions will speak to me at this point ...

Mondo

 

[CheesePoofs]

Well, after reading that I can definately see a lot better where you're coming from, it does seem as though you've been "used," although I'd still like to hear from DRingdahl before making any judgements.

I appologize for accusing you of leaving a project ... must have misread something. I edited it out.

 

[trevinom]

Originally posted by: mondobyte
A clarification:

I have not quit any BOINC project! I did remove myself from TeAM on 3 projects.

Quite a while ago, I decided that CPDN was not appropriate for most of the computers due to the larger memory requirement. I have CPDN running on a handful or less computers.

DRingdahl surfaced on 6 September 2005 and explained that shortly after the contest ended, he had some financial problems and could not send the computer. He indicated that a committment was a committment and said, publicly, that he would send me a DELL and needed my address. I provided that information to him. Privately, he said it would be the end of the month. At that time, I offered that I could call it done and forget about it but he insisted that he needed to meet the commitment and send the prize PC. The least expensive Dell Pentium 4 (not a celeron) 2.4 system at that time was in the $620 range (no monitor) from the DELL Outlet store (PC's built but not purchased or PC's returned) and I offered to let him send me a Flat Panel instead which, at that time, was less $. He said that was fine. October came and went ... no computer. In November, we all were presented with the sudden end of the Find-a-Drug project. In November DRingdahl asked me to help out on the PrimeGrid project -- and said that my prize would be arriving soon. I said that I would commit 10% of my processing power to the project during the month of January. I did that and at the end of January, I ceased PrimeGrid as it is a project that does not really hold any interest for me. It is now February and I feel like I was used again.

In the DELL outlet store, there are several Pentium 4 2800's that were "previously ordered new", "certified refurbished" or "scratch & dent" in the $329 price range. Of course DELL OUTLET computers have limited availability and the selection is limited. There were several and this was the slowest Pentium 4 at the lowest price that is available now. A Celeron 2.53 can be had for as little as $229 although, IMHO, a Celeron 2.53 is not equivalent to an XP2400+ in processing capability but I guess I cannot be that choosy.

The Flat Panel that we previously talked about (a 17" analog) is $219 from the Dell Outlet store and I said I would be willing to pay the difference and upgrade it to a 20".

I even proposed that he just ship me a socket 939 motherboard -- Foxconn 6100K8MA ($65), an inexpensive EPS12v PSU (38.99) and an Opteron 148 Venus -- the lowest priced opteron/athlon64 at NewEgg -- (256) which totals to $359 ... What the heck ... I'd be excstatically happy with just the motherboard and Opteron ... about $321 ... I have everything else required to put it to work in short order.

Based on the premise that he was willing to spend the $ for a low end Dell, I felt like I gave him multiple opportunities to meet the prize committment at a reduced cost. At the time the contest ran, the value of the system that he pledged for the contest would have been in at least $350 at that time using the lowest priced components.

You know it isn't even about the money. I could take my wife out to dinner for Valentine's Day and treat her like a queen for the day and buy her a new watch (I did these things!) and if she didn't get a card and a kiss in the deal ... she would make sure I was reminded of that for the next 10 years. To her, Valentine's Day and other holidays are about the Card and the kiss ... the rest is unnecessary but she'll take it . If this were a trade gone south ... I could and have let it go and marked it off to poor judgement and be done with it. This was a contest and I won the prize! There's no bragging rights to ... nothing. I need my "Card and Handshake" at a minimum. A cheap 8x10 frame with an inkjet certificate - sent by DRingdahl and a personal note explaining why the promised prize is not forthcoming. At least, I would know that he went to some effort. I could put it alongside my FaD certificates. A phone conversation or an electronic note are just not satisfying. To be honest, I feel I got conned with the contest ... and then I feel that I got conned into running PrimeGrid ... and I didn't even get a THANK YOU when the month ended. I feel used, dirty, debased, and cheap. Actions will speak to me at this point ...

Mondo

Dude, after he renigged on the prize because of financial problems, I would have started ignoring him and that would have been the end of it.

 

[BespinReactorShaft]

With Mondo's latest clarification I can now fully understand and respect his sentiments.

With zero input from DRingdahl so far, I can't help but be reminded of the quote:

Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.

Either that or some truly major calamity must have befallen the fellow, in which case I hope that he will be all right.

This whole DC business may just be a hobby to some people but then some people also forget that there are actual human feelings attached to the other end of the deal. And unlike hobbies human feelings cannot be simply chucked aside without repercussions. Just my $0.02.

I wish Mondo the best in his future endeavours.

 

[Freewolf]

Much of what he said is in the post I linked to earlier in this thread. THe rest I ( And I doubt anyone else ) was aware of . After being lied to twice I can see why Mondo is upset , I think just about any of us would be. I'm still not sure what any of us can do about it.

 

[Insidious]

That's really the question here isn't it..

Just exactly what is it that you are hoping to be done Mondo?

winr and I each tried to offer you a "card and a handshake" and that has been ignored.

a lot of people have offered you our "moral support" and that doesn't seem to be making you feel any better either.

We want you to feel like you have TeAm mates who care, but you have quit our team???

So now what?

-Sid

 

[scottish144]

I understand feeling lied to and cheted, so I rescind part of my previous post. DHringdahl should come forward and explain himself. He must know about it by now. As for quitting the TeAm on certain projects, crunch where you want Mondo, but unless you've lost interest in the project, it hurts the TeAm more than DHringdahl if you quit. In any case, it is obvious that DHringdahl is in the wrong on this issue. He is irresponsible if not outright lying. Can a team leader/founder forcibly eject a member from the TeAm? If not, they'res not much more we cna do excpet flame him in the forums. And that could get annying for US after a while.

 

[Freewolf]

01/25/2006 10:46 PM is the last time he logged onto Anandtech so unless he is reading the forums without logging in I doubt he knows about this thread.

 

[rise]

well, after renegging a couple times i don't think it would matter to him right now, for whatever reason. its too bad he just wouldn't make this right and be done with it. its one thing to not have the funds, its another to lie and stay out of touch.

seems he is/was held in rather high regard as well as having a pretty successful business. again, not knowing the guy, my heart tells me to wish him well, hope that everything is ok with him and that he can resolve this quickly.

otoh, its not difficult to just drop a line to someone and let them know whats going on. and its almost impossible to lie if you try not to

i think everyone in the thread freewolf linked was very understanding and supportive of him, including mondo.

well, enough out of me. good luck mondo.

 

[mondobyte]

Originally posted by: Insidious
That's really the question here isn't it..

Just exactly what is it that you are hoping to be done Mondo?

winr and I each tried to offer you a "card and a handshake" and that has been ignored.

a lot of people have offered you our "moral support" and that doesn't seem to be making you feel any better either.

We want you to feel like you have TeAm mates who care, but you have quit our team???

So now what?

-Sid

I was, at minimum, hoping that Dringdahl would be removed as the captain of the various teams in which he has that distinction and be replaced by someone a bit more responsible and with cleaner hands.

Other than that, I wanted to vent and get it off my chest and let the truth see the light of day.

I sincerely appreciate your (insidious & winr) offers but it isn't up to my TeAmMates to make things right in DRingdahl's name.

I appreciate the support of the TeAM ... I have reconsidered and, you all are correct, it hurts the TeAms more for me to boycott those TeAMs in which Dringdahl participates.

My participation in those teams (PrimeGrid, CPDN, Rosetta) is restored and I appologize to all of my TeAM members for my unilateral actions. I showed extreme patience with Dringdahl and I certainly should have showed more patience with all of you. I didn't think it through very clearly.

I don't plan on further contributions to PrimeGrid only because it is not a project that has any appeal to me. For technical reasons, I have discontinued DIMES. Again, because of technical problems ... I am evaluating my continuation in Rosetta. I hope the Rosetta team solves those problems which mainly result in hung WU. I grow weary babysitting Rosetta clients.

mondo

 

[networkman]

I hope the Rosetta team solves those problems which mainly result in hung WU. I grow weary babysitting Rosetta clients.

Yep, I hear you there. I had Rosetta running on one of my boxes and the darn thing kept hanging on WUs, so I detached from the project and went back to E@H. If the R@H project gets the bugs worked out, I'll give it another try. I too do not want to babysit my clients.. they get enough attention as it is.

 

[Insidious]

Originally posted by: mondobyte

I was, at minimum, hoping that Dringdahl would be removed as the captain of the various teams in which he has that distinction and be replaced by someone a bit more responsible and with cleaner hands.

I think that would be appropriate.

Other than that, I wanted to vent and get it off my chest and let the truth see the light of day.

I'm glad you decided to do so. Maybe it will prevent a reapeat by him or someone else. Trust me, this comes from a fellow 'venter'... I would have done the same.

I sincerely appreciate your (insidious & winr) offers but it isn't up to my TeAmMates to make things right in DRingdahl's name.

I understand and agree... Thank You. (just wanted you to know we would right this wrong if we could

My participation in those teams (PrimeGrid, CPDN, Rosetta) is restored and I appologize to all of my TeAM members for my unilateral actions.

I totally understand your frustration... no apology necessary (but appreciated!). Glad you decided not to let this unfortunate situation ruin an otherwise good thing!

I hope the Rosetta team solves those problems which mainly result in hung WU. I grow weary babysitting Rosetta clients.

Poor ol' Rosey... I think they are stepping in the right direction (RALPH alpha testers). I share your wishes for their success. (my favorite project)

mondo

:beer: for my TeAm mate :beer:

-Sid

 

[amdxborg]

I'm sorry, I guess I just don't feel as strongly about this as most of or all of you. If I won and didn't get my prize, so what. Life goes on, if he could have given it, he would have. I'd feel ahh don't worry about it, I won and got the recognition of my teammates that I was the best. I feel that ripping on another teammate like this is really bad and not necessary. Oh and Mondo, I would feel the same way if this situation was the other way around and Dwight was ripping on you.

 

[Silverthorne]

Originally posted by: scottish144
I'm sorry but I just have to spew something at this thread:

This thread is about a year old dispute over 1 COMPUTER!!! IMO a computer is NOT worth letting down the TeAm or letting down science. Mondo, how many computers do you have? A lot. Whats one more comp really going to do for you? And like many others have pointed out, DRingdahl has not explained his side of the story yet. Until he does, no one here is entitled to judge on this issue.

I think we're forgetting the point of DC. The entire objective of DC is SCIENCE. DC is about SCIENCE, not who can crunch the most. The more you crunch, the more you deliver to science, and that is IMO the most valuable point of DC in the first place. Granted, competition is all well and good, but it amazes me when I see fellow teammates attack another and make immature geastures over the d@mn NUMBERS!!! And this is the SECOND time in less than a year where TA has temporaily declined in status due to this immature bickering.

Granted, it mostly works out well in the end, with all the injured parties apologizing and what not, but my point is this shouldn't happen in the first place. Now I personally believe that DRingdahl should hand over the comp as he promised, and should explain as to the tardiness fo tis arrival. And he should be given some heat about it. But like I said, no one can truly judge until he comes forth with an explanation.

As for quitting the projects DRingdahl participated in, WTF does that do? His stats are not dependent on yours, Mondo. Quitting hurt the TeAm as a whole. DRingdahl's personal stats remain unaffected. Quitting the projects did as little as sticking ur nose in the air. All contributions made by TeAm members are appreciated, and that is one of the great things about TA. Even my measly P3 1 GHz is respected. However, they are appreciated even more by the scientists who use the data we crunch. When you stop crunching for a project, they lose processing power, and in the case of the bigger players such as Mondo, this loss is significant.

/rant

This is just the conclusion I came to after reading this thread. If there was something I missed, then I appologize for being ill-informed and arriving at this conclusion too early.

I totaly agree with scottish144 and can't believe that mondo would flame the hell out of someone over a damn computer.

 

[networkman]

Originally posted by: Silverthorne
I totaly agree with scottish144 and can't believe that mondo would flame the hell out of someone over a damn computer.

I can believe it, as I would be doing the same thing(and probably more) were I in mondobyte's place. My earlier post comparing the situation to a bad trade in the FS/T forum is spot on; if Dwight had been communicative throughout the process and kept in touch rather than just ignoring the situation, there'd be alot more forgiveness flowing through this thread. But as it is, I consider Dringdahl a Troll and I think he should be treated as such.

 

[RemyCanad]

I have not posted in a long time due to being busy with more important things such as school, research, and my company but I thought I might chime in on this.

Yes I believe Drigndahl is at fault for no providing the promised item and it should be known to the whole TeAm. But I believe the original post was the wrong way to deal with this.

The poll and the statement "taken to task" was (IMHO) the wrong way to approach this issue. I believe the situation should have been brought forward in a factual manner. ie, here is what has happened so far. Complaining to the TeAm and hoping the team could force Drigndahl to pony up the offered items was the incorrect way to go. As can be seen, this has made most people choose a side and post their comments.

I would have stated the facts and added a disclaimer stating these facts are for your own use. Please do not post your opinion on what should be done about this issue. I consider the deal to be void and will personally no longer do any dealings with Drigndahl. I would probably even go as far as to some how post this in the For Sale and Trade forum. But I would never ask the TeAm to go batting for me in hopes of getting my items. That IMO is just asking for trouble.

So in the end, I believe the issue should be dropped. We know the facts and unless Drigndahl can give an explanation we know his word cannot be trusted. Yes he should lose his "Team Capitan" status due to this. But I would have brought that up in another thread.

-Jeremy

edit for more opinion
I would also like to add this is just part of the internet. You can never be sure on what someone is like. I would have never entered the contest because IMO he had not built up enough TeAm respect to be able to validate such a large offer.

This also applies to my self. I do very little trading, so if I were to trade with a well respected member, I would arrange it so that he/she would not send my items until he has received the ones I am sending him. Why? Because I must earn their respect and trust.

 

[Spacehead]

Originally posted by: mondobyte
I was, at minimum, hoping that Dringdahl would be removed as the captain of the various teams in which he has that distinction and be replaced by someone a bit more responsible and with cleaner hands.

I'm not sure that can be done by anyone other than Dringdahl. I think he would have to hand over the reigns to some one else on his own, as far as i know.


Dringdahl, if you happen to read this, you have PM about a different matter.