An update on the CA budget: our first veto

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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California already ranks 8th in the nation in taxes per capita.

How much higher do you want them to go?

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/most-taxed-states-lifestyle-income-tax-burden.html

As I understand it, the issue is extending temporary taxes already in place - so the answer would be 'no higher'. Below is Brown's statement.

I am returning Senate Bill 69 and Assembly Bill 98 without my signature.

In January, I presented a balanced budget solution with a mix of deep spending cuts and temporary tax extensions subject to voter approval. My plan would put these extended revenues in a lockbox, ensuring that they are only used to protect education and public safety. It would also address California’s long term fiscal crisis by substantially paying down the $35 billion wall of debt built up over the last decade.

Yet Republicans in the Legislature blocked the right of the people to vote on this honest, balanced budget.

Meanwhile, Democrats in the Legislature made valiant efforts to address California’s budget crisis by enacting $11 billion in painful cuts and other solutions. I commend them for their tremendous efforts to balance the budget in the absence of Republican cooperation.

Unfortunately, the budget I have received is not a balanced solution. It continues big deficits for years to come and adds billions of dollars of new debt. It also contains legally questionable maneuvers, costly borrowing and unrealistic savings. Finally, it is not financeable and therefore will not allow us to meet our obligations as they occur.

We can – and must – do better. A balanced budget is critical to our economic recovery. I am, once again, calling on Republicans to allow the people of California to vote on tax extensions for a balanced budget and significant reforms. They should also join Democrats in supporting job creation and ending tax breaks for out-of-state companies. If they continue to obstruct a vote, we will be forced to pursue deeper and more destructive cuts to schools and public safety– a tragedy for which Republicans will bear full responsibility.
 
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Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
Duh.

This has been going on for ages. Dems require spending and taxing. Republicans only require spending and filibusterer taxing. Dems think the budget gap is based solely on a lack of additional taxing.
I agree. Tax increases get the people nowhere towards a balanced budget.

I was surprised that there were some Republicans who wanted radical budget cuts. The thing is, they only call for that when there is a Democrat executive.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Duh.

This has been going on for ages. Dems require spending and taxing. Republicans only require spending and filibusterer taxing. Dems think the budget gap is based solely on a lack of additional taxing.

Republicans need to finish fleeing the state, and let the Dems have their taxes.

Except you're completely wrong. The fact: The Democrats have very large spending cuts.

Jaskalas's 'fact': "Dems think the budget gap is based solely on a lack of additional taxing."

95% of what's said about liberals here is wrong or lies, I can't remember the other 5%.

If Republicans DID flee the state and Dems had 2 more votes in each house, we'd have a budget.
 
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sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
2,759
136
I find it funny that Brown's solution is "Let the people vote on it" after 8 years of Dem complaints of "Legislating by proposition" after Schwartzenegger did the same thing.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I find it funny that Brown's solution is "Let the people vote on it" after 8 years of Dem complaints of "Legislating by proposition" after Schwartzenegger did the same thing.

Well, the things Brown and Arnold are putting in front of the voters are pretty different.

Brown is saying, 'give the people a choice between extending tax increases and drastic cuts'.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
News to Craig, we've BEEN fleeing. I hope you enjoy your budget, one day you'll have it.

Flee more. Actually, you're better off converting, but if it's that or nothing.

Our surveys indicate that among those most likely to vote, 44% are Democrats, 35% are Republicans, and 18% are independents, relatively unchanged since 2006.

 CONSERVATISM HAS GROWN AMONG REPUBLICANS AND INDEPENDENTS.
Among Republican likely voters, the vast majority say they are politically conservative (73%), up 8 points since 2006 (65%). Although a plurality of independent likely voters consider themselves moderate (40%), the percentage identifying as conservative (31%) has increased 5 points since 2006 (26%); 29% say they are liberal (32% in 2006). Independents continue to lean more toward the Democratic than Republican Party (38% vs. 30%), but Democratic leanings are down 4 points since 2006; 32% say they lean toward neither party. Among Democratic likely voters, 50% identify as liberal, 32% as moderate, and 18% as conservative, similar to 2006.

 THE CONSERVATIVE ATTITUDE TOWARD TAXING AND SPENDING HAS ALSO MADE GAINS.
Likely voters in 2006 were slightly more likely to prefer paying higher taxes in return for having a state government that provides more services (49%) than paying lower taxes and having fewer services (44%). Today, they are slightly more likely to prefer lower taxes and fewer services (48%) than higher taxes and more services (43%). While preferences among Democrats are similar to 2006 (two-thirds prefer higher taxes and more services), the preference for lower taxes and fewer services grew 7 points to 74% among Republicans and 5 points to 50% among independents.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
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I find it funny that Brown's solution is "Let the people vote on it" after 8 years of Dem complaints of "Legislating by proposition" after Schwartzenegger did the same thing.

Mob rule favors biting the hand that feeds you. They're begging for it.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
Who put a gun to your head to read this thread?

No one. But I think I see one aimed at you saying not to...

I've been shot at....for real many times. I'm still here.

I don't care what these fools in California do. That's their business and only effects me in that way too many Californians are leaving that State and coming to Texas. I for one don't want them here, so I wish they would get their shit together and a fix their State.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
Flee more. Actually, you're better off converting, but if it's that or nothing.

I'd rather move to Alabama than join you. Oh wait, I did.

What's that crap you've quoted, is it some effort to refute my claim that we're fleeing the failed state? Just google California Exodus. Now maybe 'people' don't translate into 'Republicans' but the more wealthy and better off are the sort who can afford the expense of leaving.

I have to tell you, when we got out of there in 2006 the price of a truck to enter was dirt cheap compared to the price to leave. Demand was high, though maybe the economic depression has mired the water, the Dems and illegals will chase out the rest in short order.

You just have to be patitent, for under any normal set of rules the state would already be yours. In due time you'll overcome the 2/3rds budget requirement as well. You need to remember that Reagan came from CA, so it has come a long ways since then.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
I for one don't want them here, so I wish they would get their shit together and a fix their State.

Shelter the thought, and take a trip down to SoCal. Or even the central valley where all the food is grown. You'll realize you've gone south of the border and that there is no fixing California.

It has already failed, it just takes a long time to sink given the size.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I've been shot at....for real many times. I'm still here.

Hope it was worth it, not one of these unjustified conflicts. Which largely means WWII.

I don't care what these fools in California do.

Helpful tip: Then don't click the thread about CA.

That's their business and only effects me in that way too many Californians are leaving that State and coming to Texas. I for one don't want them here, so I wish they would get their shit together and a fix their State.

Might want to talk to your governor, who keeps coming to CA begging for people to go to Texas.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/04/rick-perry-accused-of-cal_n_818606.html
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I'd rather move to Alabama than join you. Oh wait, I did.

Congratulations on your new sweet home. Different strokes. You DO have Waffle House.

What's that crap you've quoted, is it some effort to refute my claim that we're fleeing the failed state? Just google California Exodus. Now maybe 'people' don't translate into 'Republicans' but the more wealthy and better off are the sort who can afford the expense of leaving.

And of staying in the best place in the country.

In due time you'll overcome the 2/3rds budget requirement as well.

We already did. Perhaps you meant taxes.

You need to remember that Reagan came from CA, so it has come a long ways since then.

And who preceded and followed Reagan as governor? Pat Brown and Jerry Brown.

And then we had an almost uninterrupted streak of bad Republican governors for the last 20 years or so, except Gray Davis, who was foolishly recalled and replaced with Arnold.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Craig, did you miss my post about the fact that next years budget is bigger than this years thus there are NO spending cuts.

Unless the information I got was wrong it sounds like the whole 'massive spending cuts' is just another example of spending less than you expected and calling it a cut.


Only a government accountant would buy a $200 item instead of a $300 one and tell his wife that he cut his spending.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Craig, did you miss my post about the fact that next years budget is bigger than this years thus there are NO spending cuts.

No, I am not that interested in repeating corrections to your games about 'spending cuts'.

Unless the information I got was wrong it sounds like the whole 'massive spending cuts' is just another example of spending less than you expected and calling it a cut.


Only a government accountant would buy a $200 item instead of a $300 one and tell his wife that he cut his spending.

Ignoring the facts in CA, in your own example you are quite confused.

Cutting budget spending from $300 to $200 is indeed a "spending cut" - pretty textbook example.

You did account for population growth in your 'increase' comment, right?

Ya, that honesty is about as likely as you not posting a tax ranking based on absolute dollars, with no consideration of cost of living. Oh, wait, you just did that too.

Spending less on something than previously planned, than previously spent, can be a 'cut'.

Spending less on something per unit - like going from $1.00 per person to $0.98 per person, even if population growth makes the spending go up, is a type of cut.

But the following chart of the governor's budget - see 'SUM-04 General expenditures by agency' - suggests that spending goes from 2010-2011 $92 billion to 2011-2012 $84 billion.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf

So we don't even need those definitions for these cuts.

It's a little confusing - 'SUM-01' shows an expenditure dollar increase while SUM-02 and SUM-04 (SUM-03 is for revenues, not spending) show a dollar decrease.

But I'm assuming the difference might be in money going to pay down the debt - leaving us with, wait for it, spending cuts.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
His first real paragraph makes him sound like a little kid in the candy store. Holding his breath until he gets what he wants.

The Republicans are in the Legislature for a purpose. The people want checks on the Dems so they do not completely destroy the state budget. The same reason for the 2/3 rule. Prevent a tyranical majority from overwhelming the minority.

/edit
Apparently the CA voters are now as crazy as the Dems.
They removed the 2/3 rule last fall.
Now they get what they deseve on their budget.

The liberals here have no justification to blame the Repbublicans for the CA budget woes; they will have done it to themselves.

Tyranny of the Minority is worse. California's woes is the perfect example of it.
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,660
198
106
Even if Brown gets what he wants, a vote on the tax extensions, there is a very good chance he won't get them. Then what? Will they finally do an all cuts budget? I doubt it. The Dems will try and come up with some other way to get the money regardless of what voters want.

The funny part about all this is that the current budget problem is nothing compared to California's unfunded pension liabilities. How is the state going to pay for those? Let me guess, more taxes?

Regardless how the current budget mess plays out, there is no way around even more cuts and, in all likelihood, more taxes.

-KeithP
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
lol Craig is blaming CA financial woes soley on Republicans.

lol

this as well

Let's pretend the fiscal hole is from the republican minority, rather than ridiculous comp and benefits for cali public sector.

That and having morans legislate via the prop clusterfuck.

About a year ago NPR had a story about some prop that now regulates chicken coop sizing for egg farms in cali. The rule, going in effect in ~2015 will essentially end all egg farms in cali, because they can't compete with farmers one state over.

They had one farmer on saying that either the rule gets tossed or he'll have to sell and move his farm.
 
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