Anand, any comments on NV35? (Anand Replies)

[oldfart]

One of the beauties of NVIDIA going to more parametrized verilog code is that derivatives can be cranked out relatively quickly

Um Yeah, that was my thought too. That is much better than..um....non parallelogramized vertex shader-rasterized.....uh...vertigo deviations.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Anand Lal Shimpi
chizow

NV35's release was never "sooner than expected." One of the beauties of NVIDIA going to more parametrized verilog code is that derivatives can be cranked out relatively quickly. The vast majority of the NV30's delays were due to manufacturing, note that despite NV30's delays the NV31/NV34 were launched without a hitch. The same is true for NV35, the chip's schedule was never adjusted, so it's not late nor early

Take care,
Anand

I totally agree from a technology and competitive advantage standpoint; it made no sense for nVidia to hold back new tech to maintain a dated, late and underperforming (relative to the competition) part in NV30 because of TSMC's problems with their 130nm process. I've been cautiously optimistic (have to be around here ) that nVidia was hard at work on an NV30 refresh, but so soon after their launch of the 5800 took me by surprise. At first I thought the power --> heat --> noise issues of the NV30 were a flaw in the core and process itself, but as more reports came in, it became clear that the use of DDR-II was the main culprit, which was also the cause of NV30's other major shortcoming, a 128-bit bus.

It looks like they've done what they should've done with NV30 and gone with DDR-I and a 256-bit memory interface with NV35, which should allow the NV35 to flex its impressive fillrate numbers. From your articles about NV3X, you've emphasized the importance of nV's compartmentalized architecture (laymen's translation ) in determining performance. With reports from Digitimes emphasizing improved shader ops and your comments above, does that mean significant core improvements as well? I know you can't answer that, but any "vagueness" would be much appreciated.

Chiz

 

[oldfart]

At first I thought the power --> heat --> noise issues of the NV30 were a flaw in the core and process itself, but as more reports came in, it became clear that the use of DDR-II was the main culprit, which was also the cause of NV30's other major shortcoming, a 128-bit bus.

It looks like they've done what they should've done with NV30 and gone with DDR-I and a 256-bit memory interface with NV35, which should allow the NV35 to flex its impressive fillrate numbers

That I can understand . 256 bit bus, DDR I and no need for such a noisy cooling setup. nV35 is looking much better already.

 

[GTaudiophile]

So when will Anand be able to tell us if the NV35 will be the R350 crusher?

Peeps at Rage3D are freaked out that NV35 will destroy R350, nVidia will release NV40 by Xmas, and ATi won't have an answer in R400 until early 2004...

Edit: Where are the female interns??? Isn't this suppose to be like DELL???

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
So when will Anand be able to tell us if the NV35 will be the R350 crusher?

Peeps at Rage3D are freaked out that NV35 will destroy R350, nVidia will release NV40 by Xmas, and ATi won't have an answer in R400 until early 2004...

Edit: Where are the female interns??? Isn't this suppose to be like DELL???

First off, I am by NO means an ATI fanboy, but I HIGHLY doubt that ATI and its fans are afraid of what NV35 and NV40 will do considering ATI's recent success. Remember that nVidia has to play catch up for the time being. Just getting NV35 to be faster than the 9800 Pro will be a feat. Getting the NV40 to truly blow away the competition will be one hell of a task.

Remember, people were saying the same thing about nVidia not being able to catch up when R300 and R350 came out. I think the graphics world is fairly well balanced right now. It's a see-saw as to who's in the lead at any moment, but they both have their times to shine.

By the way, I remember the P10 core from Creative (ex-3Dlabs) was supposed to be a big deal, as was the Parhelia. Nothing in the video card industry is certain until it's released and final drivers are released.

EDIT: BTW, you really do need to get some female interns. Look at what Morgan Webb did for "The Screen Savers." That otherwise unbearable show was quite enjoyable with her around. I justified my viewing by waiting for her to appear. Then she was immortalized by the Madonna fiasco. She's gone and their ratings have tanked. Now I don't know what to watch from 6:00 to 7:00.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Anand, we KNOW you got NV35 in your lab!!! Is it knocking your socks off? Has ATi been thrown back to the Stone Age?

 

[bluemax]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Anand, we KNOW you got NV35 in your lab!!! Is it knocking your socks off? Has ATi been thrown back to the Stone Age?

Whoa! Hold on there GT! You've posted an awful lot of messsages all basically saying, "Is it faster than ATI? Is it faster than ATI? Is nVidia the "best" again???"

Calm down. Take a deep breath. People will still love nVidia even if it doesn't wipe the floor with the 9800 Pro.
I can't help but feel like it won't be THAT much faster... they still need a two-slot RAM/core heatsink/fan operation so they can clock it high enough to be called "ultra".

I sincerely hope the uber-cooled "Ultra" is significantly faster, so a "regular" card with a single-slot normal cooling solution can keep up nicely.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Anand, we KNOW you got NV35 in your lab!!! Is it knocking your socks off? Has ATi been thrown back to the Stone Age?

Even I can answer these questions . . . (with "guessing" of course) . . .

"of course" it's in his lab.

His socks are still on . . . at least not due to NV35. (NV 40 will be the "sock-knocker")

ATI - although it won't be "top dog" for awhile - isn't "stone age" yet . . . their year "on top" has increased their marketshare, prestige and improved their margins (and driver development!) . . . and they have been quite realistic in their future expectations.


. . . and best of all the mainstream 9700/9800 prices should be "quite reasonable" and awesome bang-for-the-buck.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Anand drives a Ferrari 360 Modena, so like me, he probably likes to be the first one off the line. Meaning, I just KNOW he's tempted to give us the goods on NV35 ASAP. I'm just goading him to give us some hints, now that we're within hours of NV35 making its debut.

 

[Acanthus]

I still hold my opinion firm that NO CARD OUT TODAY even the DX9rs will be able to push a true DX9 game at 60+ fps.

Look at the mother nature test on 3DM2K3, cards are lucky to push 40fps, and it only utilizes SOME dx9 shaders. A scene done with fully "programmed by the engine" extensions would run like crap.

Not only am i waiting for a Game to challenge my Ti4200, im waiting for a card thats gonna push the game that does.

 

[Wurrmm]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
So when will Anand be able to tell us if the NV35 will be the R350 crusher?

Peeps at Rage3D are freaked out that NV35 will destroy R350, nVidia will release NV40 by Xmas, and ATi won't have an answer in R400 until early 2004...

Edit: Where are the female interns??? Isn't this suppose to be like DELL???

First off, I am by NO means an ATI fanboy, but I HIGHLY doubt that ATI and its fans are afraid of what NV35 and NV40 will do considering ATI's recent success. Remember that nVidia has to play catch up for the time being. Just getting NV35 to be faster than the 9800 Pro will be a feat. Getting the NV40 to truly blow away the competition will be one hell of a task.

Remember, people were saying the same thing about nVidia not being able to catch up when R300 and R350 came out. I think the graphics world is fairly well balanced right now. It's a see-saw as to who's in the lead at any moment, but they both have their times to shine.

By the way, I remember the P10 core from Creative (ex-3Dlabs) was supposed to be a big deal, as was the Parhelia. Nothing in the video card industry is certain until it's released and final drivers are released.

EDIT: BTW, you really do need to get some female interns. Look at what Morgan Webb did for "The Screen Savers." That otherwise unbearable show was quite enjoyable with her around. I justified my viewing by waiting for her to appear. Then she was immortalized by the Madonna fiasco. She's gone and their ratings have tanked. Now I don't know what to watch from 6:00 to 7:00.

They don't really have to do much to catch up since the NV30 was not really that bad. It was close to being on par with the 9700 pro.

 

[Oakenfold]

Whatever did happen to the P10? I was following that in maximum pc and it just kinda died after they did an article on it...

 

[PrinceXizor]

Yes, exactly, the "surprise" was ATI's execution, not that the NV30 was so horrible (dustbuster not withstanding). ATI releases the 8500 and feels good, then Nvidia slams them with the Ti42/44/4600 series. It looks as if ATI is a day late and a dollar short once again, but ATI pulls an Nvidia, decreases their product cycle time and slams out the 9700. Holy cow, this thing eats 4600's for dinner and has room for dessert. Nvidia, wasn't sitting back on its heels, but I would wager that they felt their lead in graphics gave them some leeway to push the envelope with the NV30, something that ended up being a double whammy. They pushed the envelope (thus risking the delays which occured) right when ATI decides to supercharge their develpment schedule.

So the keys are this...

1. How will Nvidia's "refresh" of the NV30 i.e. the NV35 stack up with ATI's "refresh" of the R300 i.e. the R350. (Don't forget about ATI's back-up plans of 256MB cards and DDR-II should NV35 be super-stellar).

2. The real test is on the next-gen cores from both companies.
A. Whose next-gen core (ATI's R400 and Nvida's NV40) will pack more technological punch
B. More importantly probably, who will land their punch first.

P-X

 

[zsouthboy]

bah. i want nv40/r400! (these guys will be radically different, believe me..... )

I practically guarantee it

 

[Lonyo]

nVidia still don't have an answer to the AIW cards from ATi. They are quite special, given what they can do, and they're not much more expensive than a dustbuster (if at all).

ATi still manage to do some special cards, pushing up the clock speeds on a 0.15 micron process with no extra cooling.
And what about the 600MHz+ core of the 9600 someone managed to hit, that's something impressive.

While nVidia may gain a performance crown, they still aren't total king of the world.

And what about the mid range efforts? The 9500PRO seems to rule the roost there.
When are the next mid range cards scheduled for release? Or will they stick with the 5200/5600 for a while to make some money.

 

[TROGDORdBURNINATOR]

it just kinda died

That's about all there is to it. The project was Sh!tcanned.