Anand reviews a Macintosh

[Schadenfroh]

Text

 

[Mik3y]

that was a very interesting read.

 

[Excelsior]

And that is why I like OS X...but so many PC people just bash Macs..*sigh*

 

[Adul]

mac OSX on PC = <3

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: Adul
mac OSX on PC = <3

Sooo true. I've already made most of my pc look like a mac anyways, with skins and such...teh sigh.

The only reason for PC's is cheapness and gaming (selection).

 

[imported_pak9rabid]

TextThe only reason for PC's is cheapness and gaming (selection).

don't forget upgradability

 

[furie27]

Even back in the days of DOS I found the mac o/s to be counter-intuitive. I think the difference is more wired in personality than anything else. That being said, I found Solaris preferable to Linux or Windows, so maybe I'm just backwards.

 

[The MACdaddy]

Originally posted by: pak9rabid

TextThe only reason for PC's is cheapness and gaming (selection).

don't forget upgradability

Mac users can upgrade:
Video Cards
Hard Drives
Optical Drives
RAM
Processors
cabling
etc...

What else is there?

Whatever man... stick to the facts instead of misinformation, mkay?

 

[LtPage1]

its really about price. i love my macs, but i cant live without my pc. its still a hell of a lot more expensive to upgrade the mac than to upgrade a pc. it just is. ill always have a mac, and i might not always have a pc, but the pc is still easier to upgrade. because of price.

 

[The MACdaddy]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
its really about price. i love my macs, but i cant live without my pc. its still a hell of a lot more expensive to upgrade the mac than to upgrade a pc....

Right.

The OEM raptor drive I bought from NewEgg magically got more expensive when I ordered it. they must have something built into the site that can tell I'm a Mac user and then jacked up the price. Paid $180 for it. Hey... that's what its listing for now... you must be WRONG. Imagine that. Same with the 2GB or PC3200 I got from there too...

 

[FishTankX]

It's more expensive to upgrade the core of a mac (Processors, motherboard) as the parts are not widely avaliable and apple can honestly afford to charge exorbient amounts.

But it *is* cheaper to own a mac, if you have upgradeitis. Macs hold their value incredibly well, and huge leaps in processor speed are not the norm..

Also, overclocking a Mac requires that you be of the utmost of hardcoreness. Replacing clock generators is not something a pansy can do.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

how is it cheaper to own a mac? macs hold their value well only cause the kind of people who pay too much in the first place will also pay too much for a used mac. i don't see how the speed of the processor changes their value any differently from pc's. and isn't the processing power of the g5 like twice that of the g4? if they don't have huge leaps in processor speed in the future, then the future macs will suck, but that doesn't make current ones any better.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: The MACdaddy

Originally posted by: pak9rabid

TextThe only reason for PC's is cheapness and gaming (selection).

don't forget upgradability

Mac users can upgrade:
Video Cards
Hard Drives
Optical Drives
RAM
Processors
cabling
etc...

What else is there?

Whatever man... stick to the facts instead of misinformation, mkay?

Lol, you listed cabling as an upgrade... You are techincally correct, SOME macs can upgrade SOME parts on your list, but they are no where near as upgradable as a PC. I am not saying that is a problem, only that minor upgradability does not realy count as much. With limited opitcal drives (internal), CPU's, and GPU's to choose from, you have very few choices as a mac owner for upgrading. Lol, what else is there... um... maybe your motherboard? You know, the very heart of your machine?

That all being said, no one in their right mind buys a mac for it's upgradability, that would be silly and not to mention stupid. They buy them for other reasons (many of which were mentioned in the article), so try and pursure more valid arguments, mkay?

 

[xype]

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
how is it cheaper to own a mac?

If you use your computer to do work you effectively save time - and time is money. If your hour pay is $30, then 10 hours saved means you saved $300. The time savings can be anything, from the few seconds you save by using keyboard shortcuts, automated workflows with AppleScript, time saved while navigating your applications/file system, whatever.

If you use your computer as a hobby and like to tinker with it than there's no savings involved.

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
macs hold their value well only cause the kind of people who pay too much in the first place will also pay too much for a used mac.

Macs hold their value because people are prepared to pay more for a Mac because they value them higher. It's funny that in some cases people pay almost as much for an old Mac than they'd pay for a new one, or at least within some 100-ets of dollars.

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
i don't see how the speed of the processor changes their value any differently from pc's. and isn't the processing power of the g5 like twice that of the g4? if they don't have huge leaps in processor speed in the future, then the future macs will suck, but that doesn't make current ones any better.

Ugh. No, the G5 is not twice as fast as the G4. The Pentium 4 also wasn't twice as fast as the Pentium III. The G5 can adress more memory and has a bus with more bandwidth, but there are still cases where an equally- or similiarly-clocked G4 can outpefrom a G5. The basic rule is that G4 is better on integer calculations and the G5 on floating point ones.

The problem with the G4 wasn't that is was a slow CPU per se, it's that it was running on a 166 MHz bus, which is not enough for "Pro" desktops these days. If you had code that could fit into G4's L3 cache and code that could use AltiVec you had a very fast solution (Biochemistry and Genetic research have those, afaik).

I am running on a Dual 1.25 GHz G4. It's plenty fast for me, I have the Radeon 9800 Pro and I don't plan to switch to a newer system for at least one more year. I'll maye get another gig of RAM later on and a bigger harddrive or two. In February it will be two years since I have my Mac (my first one) and if nothing breaks I will end up running it for 3 years (and likely hand it to my aprents after that). That's some $1000 per year. But considering that I could more than likely sell it for ~$700-1000 after I'm done using it it's even less.

Plus, I also made a few bucks selling my PC in parts on eBay this year.

The thing is, if you want/need one, the cost is not that dramatic. But it's no system for hardcore gamers or people who want to tinker with their systems and install new parts every few months. I mean if you fry an Athlon while trying to overclock it, it's some $200 or even less for a new motherboard/CPU combo - you don't get that with a Mac (last time I heared motherboard/CPU combo is $700 or more).

To each his own. I don't diss PC users for their choice, but I don't want them to diss me for mine. Heck, I even help my brother slowly upgrade and mod his PC. And we already learned not to buy cheap motherboards.

 

[xype]

Originally posted by: Spike
Lol, you listed cabling as an upgrade... You are techincally correct, SOME macs can upgrade SOME parts on your list, but they are no where near as upgradable as a PC. I am not saying that is a problem, only that minor upgradability does not realy count as much. With limited opitcal drives (internal), CPU's, and GPU's to choose from, you have very few choices as a mac owner for upgrading. Lol, what else is there... um... maybe your motherboard? You know, the very heart of your machine?

I can put 1) stock ATA HDDs, 2) stock CD/CDR/CDRW and DVD/R/RW drives into my Mac. I can put 3) more RAM into it as well.

The 4) video cards are a bit of a problem because the Mac versions come with a bigger ROM image than it would fit into a PC version (the ROM handles more stuff on the Mac since it can be better integrated with the OS). That means I need to get a Mac specific video card. Same for the 5) CPU. But then, I can put in some UV tubes and UV sensitive coolers without problems.

So that's 5 code components I can upgrade, but I do have a tower machine. iMac is different, but it's an AIO machine.

The CPU/motherboard upgrades are expensive enough to bear the question whether a newer Mac wouldn't be just as expensive, if the older one is sold on eBay and the difference of the CPU/mobo put into the purchase. But if you need to upgrade the motherboard, you know, the very heart of your machine, then you are likely in the group of users who don't want a Mac anyway. And, to be honest, that group is pretty small among the PC users as well. My dad surely doesn't want to upgrade his motherboard, ever, and none of the other people I know - save for a few gaming enthusiasts who just need the newest nForce/Athlon combo. And I think it's great they can do it with their PC and that the PC market is big enough to allow them cheap access to components - but it's also big enough to have the games for that help you make use of it.

 

[0roo0roo]

interesting

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The system came with a recovery CD and some other manuals and booklets that I quickly cast aside; just because I'm using a Mac doesn't mean that I have to change my habits on reading manuals!

:laugh: I wasn't getting into the article, but he had me after that.

 

[The MACdaddy]

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: The MACdaddy

Originally posted by: pak9rabid

TextThe only reason for PC's is cheapness and gaming (selection).

don't forget upgradability

Mac users can upgrade:
Video Cards
Hard Drives
Optical Drives
RAM
Processors
cabling
etc...

What else is there?

Whatever man... stick to the facts instead of misinformation, mkay?

Lol, you listed cabling as an upgrade... You are techincally correct, SOME macs can upgrade SOME parts on your list, but they are no where near as upgradable as a PC. I am not saying that is a problem, only that minor upgradability does not realy count as much. With limited opitcal drives (internal), CPU's, and GPU's to choose from, you have very few choices as a mac owner for upgrading. Lol, what else is there... um... maybe your motherboard? You know, the very heart of your machine?

That all being said, no one in their right mind buys a mac for it's upgradability, that would be silly and not to mention stupid. They buy them for other reasons (many of which were mentioned in the article), so try and pursure more valid arguments, mkay?

I think its stupid for you to suggest that anyone buy ANY computer for upgradability. I buy a computer to use. If you're buying computers and immediately having to think about upgradability then you're buying the wrong computers.

Any pro machine, towers, can be upgraded with anything on that list. There aren't any G5 CPU upgrades due largely to the fact they are so new and that nobody be ready to replace them just yet. You can put in just about any Optical drive in a modern day Mac and it will work. As far as GPUs and CPUs you are confusing marketshare with the ability to actually upgrade. You can upgrade/build a Mac in every way you can a PC which counters your claims that you can't. Limited options have nothing to do with the FACT that you CAN do it, or your ignorance to the contrary.

 

[Commodus]

The issue with Macs isn't so much upgradability as it is the minimum price you have to pay for the privilege: $2000 US, without a display. Mind you, the system you get has a fair number of features, but it essentially locks out a fair amount of computer buyers, many of whom want to spend at least a few hundred dollars less but without sacrificing the ability to upgrade the system.

The odds are that Apple knows this too - and it's not like they haven't been more conscious of giving you more for your money. The question is as to whether or not they'll lower the price of entry for power users, as opposed to simply throwing more things into the box.

 

[The MACdaddy]

Originally posted by: Commodus
The issue with Macs isn't so much upgradability as it is the minimum price you have to pay for the privilege: $2000 US, without a display. Mind you, the system you get has a fair number of features, but it essentially locks out a fair amount of computer buyers, many of whom want to spend at least a few hundred dollars less but without sacrificing the ability to upgrade the system.

The odds are that Apple knows this too - and it's not like they haven't been more conscious of giving you more for your money. The question is as to whether or not they'll lower the price of entry for power users, as opposed to simply throwing more things into the box.

I'm positive Apple knows this. There was a quote from one of their VPs that there is a retail "sweet-spot" of $1000 for a commodity desktop, but they have yet to offer anything but crap at that point or less. Apple is NOT interested in making systems for Joe-sixpack - you'll never see Macs in a Walmart - its just not their thing. With billions in cash in the bank and stocks that have doubled in the past 2 years they have NO reason to change.

Apple 2-Year Stock Chart

 

[The Green Bean]

nice read

 

[FishTankX]

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
how is it cheaper to own a mac? macs hold their value well only cause the kind of people who pay too much in the first place will also pay too much for a used mac. i don't see how the speed of the processor changes their value any differently from pc's. and isn't the processing power of the g5 like twice that of the g4? if they don't have huge leaps in processor speed in the future, then the future macs will suck, but that doesn't make current ones any better.

Simple. With a mac, the pace of upgrading is slower. You can still get by on a 1GHz G4, which is what.. 3 year old tech? And how much has the price dropped for the 1GHz G4's in those 3 years?

My ultimate point being, the macs don't move as fast, and the steps tend to be bigger. So your rig doesn't devalue as quickly. Thus, it's cheaper to own mac's for say.. 10 years, than it is to stay on the leading edge of a PC.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: The MACdaddy

Originally posted by: Commodus
The issue with Macs isn't so much upgradability as it is the minimum price you have to pay for the privilege: $2000 US, without a display. Mind you, the system you get has a fair number of features, but it essentially locks out a fair amount of computer buyers, many of whom want to spend at least a few hundred dollars less but without sacrificing the ability to upgrade the system.

The odds are that Apple knows this too - and it's not like they haven't been more conscious of giving you more for your money. The question is as to whether or not they'll lower the price of entry for power users, as opposed to simply throwing more things into the box.

I'm positive Apple knows this. There was a quote from one of their VPs that there is a retail "sweet-spot" of $1000 for a commodity desktop, but they have yet to offer anything but crap at that point or less. Apple is NOT interested in making systems for Joe-sixpack - you'll never see Macs in a Walmart - its just not their thing. With microsoft's billions in cash in the bank and stocks that have doubled in the past 2 years they have NO reason to change.

Apple 2-Year Stock Chart

fixed. nice article btw. always been mac curious but i'm a gamer, and we all know how that goes.

 

[The MACdaddy]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: The MACdaddy

Originally posted by: Commodus
The issue with Macs isn't so much upgradability as it is the minimum price you have to pay for the privilege: $2000 US, without a display. Mind you, the system you get has a fair number of features, but it essentially locks out a fair amount of computer buyers, many of whom want to spend at least a few hundred dollars less but without sacrificing the ability to upgrade the system.

The odds are that Apple knows this too - and it's not like they haven't been more conscious of giving you more for your money. The question is as to whether or not they'll lower the price of entry for power users, as opposed to simply throwing more things into the box.

I'm positive Apple knows this. There was a quote from one of their VPs that there is a retail "sweet-spot" of $1000 for a commodity desktop, but they have yet to offer anything but crap at that point or less. Apple is NOT interested in making systems for Joe-sixpack - you'll never see Macs in a Walmart - its just not their thing. With microsoft's billions in cash in the bank and stocks that have doubled in the past 2 years they have NO reason to change.

Apple 2-Year Stock Chart

fixed. nice article btw. always been mac curious but i'm a gamer, and we all know how that goes.

Not only does your little editing job not make any sense its very inacurate. MSFT stock has been flat for the last 2 years.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: fisher
always been mac curious but i'm a gamer, and we all know how that goes.

A little something like this?

- M4H