ANAND'S GeForce FX review: WEAK!!!

[CoolLight]

Originally posted by: sanstrom
What about all of the 9700 well documented compatibility problems?? And don't say "I never had any problems". That don't mean jack. Have you gone into a Best Buy or Fry's or local store that sell these cards. Look at the return tags on the boxes. I'd say over 2/3 are cards that were returned. To me that says .......

Dude, you are not an OVERCLOCKER, aren't you? Those card are not defective or anything. They are returned simply because they are not able to be overclocked insanely high, like 380, 400+ core. With Nvidia Gefore FX, you don't need to worry about that at all, because they simply CAN'T be overclocked at all. Those returned Geforce FX will appear sooner or later, since no one can stand their noisy spinning fans. LOL.

Also, the fact of 2/3 of the cards were returned is totally incorrect! In all the 4 BestBuys around Boston area, I never saw any 9700pro stayed on shelf for more than 3 days. They are all sold out very quick even at tagged $399 price.

Personally, my Radeon 9700pro is clocked at 370/330, and I never had any compatibility problems with it at all.

 

[WarSong]

Originally posted by: sanstrom
What about all of the 9700 well documented compatibility problems?? And don't say "I never had any problems". That don't mean jack.

Of course it does. It means as much as one person complaining they can't get thiers to work. My past three gens of vid cards have been ATI. A RadeonLE, an 8500LE, and now a 9500np@9700pro and I have not had one issue in the past 2+ years. Which compatibility problems are you speaking of?

Have you gone into a Best Buy or Fry's or local store that sell these cards. Look at the return tags on the boxes. I'd say over 2/3 are cards that were returned. To me that says volumes.

Dude, almost everything at Fry's is 2/3 returns...

 

[NEVERwinter]

hm? radeon incompatibility? do you remember when the first Voodoo card released? there was hardly any games supports 'real' 3D. then after some tiems.. it went to be the #1 3D accelerator. The same goes with TNT cards (bugs with some chipset, CPU models, etc.)
Other than that, there's a possibility that the problem was not from the card... just like the old problem with SBLive! and VIA chipset.

Beside, now, Radeon drivers are stable and compatible enough for any games released (well, at least for those I played)

overall GFX is not as impressive as it should be. I believe that if GFX was released before R9700, and some people bought it, they won't keep it after R9700 hit the street.

 

[Booster]

Look at it this way. When the P4 was released, noone thought of buying it. Yeah, it was slow and expensive - an utter disappointment. Everybody went to AMD. But what is now in your computer? It's P4 NW . I think Nvidia is going the Intel way. Yeah, for now the FX sucks, but don't think Nvidia is stupid. I imagine the FX clocks can increase significantly in the near future (up to maybe 1GHz+ land) and it will compensate for any weaknesses just like it's the case with the P4. Thre FX also has brand new techs that Radeon doesn't even come close to. Just wait for the game titles to be released to take advantage of them, and you will see it's true.

 

[WarSong]

Originally posted by: Booster
I imagine the FX clocks can increase significantly in the near future (up to maybe 1GHz+ land)

I don't know about that one. Just to achieve 500MHz, the GFfx is generating over 68° Celsius and using up to 75 watts (according to THG) in an open case. Even with the rediculously loud 60db cooling system on it...

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Booster
Look at it this way. When the P4 was released, noone thought of buying it. Yeah, it was slow and expensive - an utter disappointment. Everybody went to AMD. But what is now in your computer? It's P4 NW . I think Nvidia is going the Intel way. Yeah, for now the FX sucks, but don't think Nvidia is stupid. I imagine the FX clocks can increase significantly in the near future (up to maybe 1GHz+ land) and it will compensate for any weaknesses just like it's the case with the P4. Thre FX also has brand new techs that Radeon doesn't even come close to. Just wait for the game titles to be released to take advantage of them, and you will see it's true.

Yea but the P4 was very scalable, that's how it did well. The FX is already ultra-overclocked and needs that massive cooling unit. It doesn't ahve the scalability of the P4

 

[Creig]

I wonder what Nvidia is going to do for an encore? I mean, ATI knows it has headroom on the .15 micron core which is how they're coming up with the R350. Nvidia seems to have maxed out their brand new .13 micron core right off the bat. Does this mean their next core will have to be built on the .09 process? I shudder to think how long it would take them to do THAT since they're WAY overdue for their .13 release.

 

[WickedChild]

they could plan an entirely new core on .13... i doubt theyll leave it that soon...
maybe theyll be smart enough to use a 256bit bus this time... stop adding extra features over the needed specifications like they did with DX9 and maybe they can cut down on transistors... that should cut size, power and heat...
then theyll have a good card like the r9700 pro that doesnt try and exceed what is needed and in doing so, screwing everything up...

 

[sanstrom]

430 watt Enlight PSU---that ain't the problem

1) Reinstalled windows--XP pro sp1
2) installed DX9
3) Installed catlyist 3 drivers from ATI
4) Downclocked my memory.
5) Added voltage to AGP bus.
6) Downloaded powerstrip 3.3 and set agp to 4x
7) Uninstalled via AGP driver...
8) WHat the hell else do you need to get a card to work?!?!?


Does anyone ever read the forum posts about problems with the 9700 and infinite looping, crashing to desktop, and rebooting systems?!?!? I'm not a fanboy I'm just pointing out that the Radeon did and does have some compatibility problems. I don't see near the amount of posts about NVIDIA hardware. All someone could bring up is TNT cards??? How old are they now for crying out loud. Trust me I wish I could have gotten the card(s) (note the plural?) to work. I know the card is powerfull and I have absolutely no loyalty to Nvidia. My problem is when you post an issue you are always lambasted saying it's your fault. I'm not a newbie. I have been building computers for 15 years now. There are two types of people that reply to you when you post a problem... those trying to help and those who blame you.....whatever...

 

[daywalker]

We also have to consider the overclocking potential of the GF FX...

What overclocking potential for crying out loud?? The damn thing underclocks when a higher frequency than its default is running for a few minutes...!

 

[ShowdOWN]

im gona hafta pass on nvidia this time. had every line of geforce cards before.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: FrodoB
It will be very difficult for me to ever buy another ATI card. My old Radeon LE from a couple years back left such a bad taste in my mouth. There were so many compatibility problems with that card. I upgraded to a GeForce 3 Ti 200 after I realized that I was spending more time troubleshooting than actually playing games. I'm hoping the intro of the GeForce FX will lower prices of entire market. Despite the level playing field between ATI and NVidia, video cards in general are still EXPENSIVE. That's probably why so many new computers come with a GeForce 2 or 4 MX variant, even these manufacturers "high end" machines.

I also bought a Radeon LE and had some problems with the drivers back then. It wasn't perfect, not by a long shot. However rage3d.com and a couple of other sites helped with the problems. I also got a GF3 and was thrilled by it. However, after I got rid of my GF3, I got a Radeon 8500LE 128MB and it was AWESOME! It was way faster than my GF3 (it o/ced easily to 310/310), and I didn't have any compatibility problems at all. ATI's drivers have gotten so much better since the original Radeon it's unbelievable. The unified driver architecture (thanks nVidia) is great!

Originally posted by: WickedChild
they could plan an entirely new core on .13... i doubt theyll leave it that soon...
maybe theyll be smart enough to use a 256bit bus this time... stop adding extra features over the needed specifications like they did with DX9 and maybe they can cut down on transistors... that should cut size, power and heat...
then theyll have a good card like the r9700 pro that doesnt try and exceed what is needed and in doing so, screwing everything up...

Ok, by the time nVidia does all of this, do you think their newly designed card will even compete against the Radeon 9700? I don't think so, not with a new ATI core coming in the next month, so rumour goes. nVidia has to ride this card for awhile, it's not even out yet!!

Originally posted by: Booster
Look at it this way. When the P4 was released, noone thought of buying it. Yeah, it was slow and expensive - an utter disappointment. Everybody went to AMD. But what is now in your computer? It's P4 NW .

Actually - it's AMD T-bred.

Originally posted by: Booster
I imagine the FX clocks can increase significantly in the near future (up to maybe 1GHz+ land) and it will compensate for any weaknesses just like it's the case with the P4. Thre FX also has brand new techs that Radeon doesn't even come close to. Just wait for the game titles to be released to take advantage of them, and you will see it's true.

The GeForce FX is not a motherboard! You are not going to be able to put a faster GPU into it, you will have to get rid of your old one and buy a totally new card! That makes the GF FX pretty unattractive right now, wouldn't you say?

1+ GHz seems VERY VERY unlikely for the "near future". If this was such a great, scalable core, then why would they need a hairdryer and a freaking all copper heatpipe system to cool it? Not to mention, how realistic does it seem that nVidia will release a new card in the next 3 months even, when the GF FX isn't even out yet!!??

 

[WickedChild]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024<br

Originally posted by: WickedChild
they could plan an entirely new core on .13... i doubt theyll leave it that soon...
maybe theyll be smart enough to use a 256bit bus this time... stop adding extra features over the needed specifications like they did with DX9 and maybe they can cut down on transistors... that should cut size, power and heat...
then theyll have a good card like the r9700 pro that doesnt try and exceed what is needed and in doing so, screwing everything up...

Ok, by the time nVidia does all of this, do you think their newly designed card will even compete against the Radeon 9700? I don't think so, not with a new ATI core coming in the next month, so rumour goes. nVidia has to ride this card for awhile, it's not even out yet!!

your right... but i meant a new core to go against ATI's next core or the one after it... not the 9700... this battle they already lost... even if they do get better performance from newer drivers, they lose cause of the whole thing with the noise and heat and power consumption...

oh... and another thing... its us AMD users who know that MHZ isnt everything... im with you jiffy...

 

[jiffylube1024]

Well, WickedChild, I really do hope nvidia can learn from it's mistakes here and move on. Nobody hopes their next chip is more of a success than me (well, perhaps exclusive NV fanboys ). But yeah, I hope they do make the core cooler, make the card run quieter and put it all on a 256-bit memory bus, with other enhancements. They can still make a very good "Ti4200-esque" market card ($100-200) that runs cooler, is small, and uses the same DirectX9 features (heck, even if they cut down on some like ATI it would be fine). Plus, the "value" card usually follows the top card by only two or three months, so they can still be competitive with ATI there.

Fortunately for us, the consumer, ATI makes it so that nVidia's "MX" line of cards just aren't worth buying if you're a gamer at all. Which is good because the MX line just sucks for gamers. The Radeon 9500 and 9100 (8500) line keeps nVidia honest, and makes sure they put out a fast value card. nVidia kept delaying the Ti4200 to skim the market with the expensive 4400 and 4600 line until ATI made the performance of the 8500 well over that of the GF3 with driver updates, and only then did nVidia feel pressured to release the Ti4200.

 

[SFang]

I think Nvidia GeforceFX is good, but not that great as Radeon 9700Pro when it came out. I will pass on the GeforceFX, unless I can see a big improvement from Nvidia later.

 

[FrodoB]

jiffylube1024, I'm somewhat interested in getting something to replace my GeForce 3 Ti 200 in the next couple months or so. I'm looking for better image quality. And I'm especially looking for better 2d (windows) quality. The only games that I play are WarCraft3, Earth and Beyond and Jedi Outcast. Are you really serious about ATI having better drivers now? I still see a decent amount of negativity around these forums regarding ATI drivers. I don't have the patience or the time anymore to spend hours trying to get things to work. The 9500 pro seems pretty nice for the price, especially if I can sell my Ti 200 for $50 or $60. And ATI has the nice 2d iq I am craving. But on the other side, the two Nvidia products in my life (Ti 200 and the TNT 2) have been completely trouble free.

 

[WickedChild]

alot of that negativity is there cause those people didnt check the new drivers... they just still remember the old ones that had trouble...
some still say they have problems with them... but everyone i know who got the r9700 pro and such, including me, had no trouble what so ever with the drivers and the card... and me and another friend of mine moved on to the 9700 from the old 3DFX Voodoo 5 5500... which as you might know is one of the hardest cards to find good drivers for winxp since the company was sold to nvidia... so i know how it is to work with tons of drivers, some of which dont work at all... and i had no such problems what so ever with my new ATI...

 

[WarSong]

Originally posted by: FrodoB
The only games that I play are WarCraft3, Earth and Beyond and Jedi Outcast. Are you really serious about ATI having better drivers now? I still see a decent amount of negativity around these forums regarding ATI drivers.

I've run WC3 and JK2 on my 8500LE and now I run them on my 9500 and I have never had a problem with either. Never played Earth and Beyond though...

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: sanstrom
What about all of the 9700 well documented compatibility problems?? And don't say "I never had any problems". That don't mean jack. Have you gone into a Best Buy or Fry's or local store that sell these cards. Look at the return tags on the boxes. I'd say over 2/3 are cards that were returned. To me that says volumes. I actually gave the 9700 a shot. I got two different cards to no avail. I started with a fresh install of windows, the latest drivers, and dx9. No dice. 3d would either reboot the two systems I tried them in or just crash to the desktop. This should be a deciding factor in what brand to buy. I would have loved for the 9700 to have worked for me... I do believe (if it didn't have issues) it would be a better buy right now. But....I think I'll stick with the ol geforce 3 and contemplate the fx. Maybe if ATIs next card isn't so buggy I'll try it out.......

I never had any problems, Jack.

 

[idNut]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Come on nvidia, get on the ball, throw in a 256-bit bus, or something, cuz your ass is toast this round

Well said.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: FrodoB
jiffylube1024, I'm somewhat interested in getting something to replace my GeForce 3 Ti 200 in the next couple months or so. I'm looking for better image quality. And I'm especially looking for better 2d (windows) quality. The only games that I play are WarCraft3, Earth and Beyond and Jedi Outcast. Are you really serious about ATI having better drivers now? I still see a decent amount of negativity around these forums regarding ATI drivers. I don't have the patience or the time anymore to spend hours trying to get things to work. The 9500 pro seems pretty nice for the price, especially if I can sell my Ti 200 for $50 or $60. And ATI has the nice 2d iq I am craving. But on the other side, the two Nvidia products in my life (Ti 200 and the TNT 2) have been completely trouble free.

ATI's drivers are great know, but I'll tell you what. You'd probably be happiest with a GF4 Ti4200. Prefferably the 128MB version.

I have a 64MB Ti4200 right now (replaced my 8500LE, I'm an upgrade freak) and I can definately say that you will LOVE the GF4. 2d is nicer than the GF3 by a good margin, 3d is just great. It o/c's like a champ, just like the Ti200 (better, actually). 11000 3dmarks, vs 8000 with the Ti200, and games are definately smoother. I play mostly WC3 on it (occasional UT 2k3).

I like features from both cards (ATI's drivers are easier to use for Aniso and AA, and I just plain like the Catalysts a bit better than the Dets right now, but I am VERY happy with my GF4). For peace of mind (you liking the GF3 and all), I would say get a Ti4200. People will recommend both right now: Radeon 9500/Pro and a Ti4200... I'm happy with the Ti4200. I'm sure I'd be happy with the 9500 also. But the Ti4200 is no slouch.

Edit: just a note that if you REALLY want to go ATI, then I'd recommend a "built by ATI" card over a "powered by ATI" one (ie from Sapphire, etc). They are almost exactly the same thing, but again for peace of mind (you not wanting to have to mess around with anything), get one made by ATI.

 

[FrodoB]

jiffylube1024, A friend of mine is offering me this trade - his 64 meg retail Radeon 8500 for 256 megs of crucial ddr + $20. 512 megs instead of 768 total will be fine for me. I'm tempted to do it, because normal windows things such as typing this message now seem slightly blurry. And I know it wasn't like that with my old Radeon LE. From what I can see, the Radeon 8500 should be on par at the very least and most likely slightly above what I have now in terms of gaming performance. And I can wait until later in the year to make a better permanent upgrade decision. It's tempting to take his offer. And I swore I'd never go with ATI again.

 

[Oakenfold]

Bah, I gave the 9700 Pro a chance, I lucked out with one of the awesome winners that couldn't do AGP 8X, combine that and awesome drivers, thanks but I'll pass on anything ATI until they can show more stability.

You shouldn't have to troubleshoot a videocard, I left that crap behind in the Socket 7 days.
:disgust:

 

[GTaudiophile]

Just wait until you see what R350 has to offer

 

[gururu]

So many cards, are we ever going to see their true potential?