Anandtech Haswell review is up!

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MisterMac

Senior member
Sep 16, 2011
777
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How long are you elder veteran statesman posters going to feed galego?

I'm just wondering.
Cause he won't stop - no matter the result of the upcoming console generation\ kaveri sales etc etc.


...He's beating you people with experience
 
Aug 11, 2008
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I guess you dont know that Intel's 90%+ of Desktop chips sold are APUs(CPU+iGPU), from Celerons all the way up to Core i7 4770K/R.

Wow, desktops have an igp??? I didn't know that at all.

Obviously the point was that a powerful igp is more beneficial in a laptop because of the power and thermal constraints, and the fact that you cannot add a discrete card easily.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
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Wow, desktops have an igp??? I didn't know that at all.

Obviously the point was that a powerful igp is more beneficial in a laptop because of the power and thermal constraints, and the fact that you cannot add a discrete card easily.

And yet the majority of Desktop systems sold are low end with iGPUs only.
 

galego

Golden Member
Apr 10, 2013
1,091
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From the same source used in #271. I am quoting the part in the middle which he did not quote in #271 (I underline the relevant parts):

How will Haswell affect your discrete GPU notebook business?
Haas: Haswell is a great CPU, and that actually helps us. We have a much higher market share on Intel platforms versus that of AMD, so to the extent Haswell is successful competing with AMD, we’ll do well. We had a record number of design wins with Ivy Bridge, and I expect we’ll have at least as many designs with Haswell. In fact we have over 95% of the gaming notebooks this refresh, so things are starting off great.

Intel says that GT3e will be as fast as a GeForce GT 650M. That sounds pretty competitive.
Haas: Their comparison is misleading on a number of fronts. First, they use synthetic benchmarks that they optimize for to compare performance. We prefer to use games to measure a GPU’s gaming performance, and optimizing for games requires a lot more effort. Second, GT 650M is a generation old GPU. GeForce GT 750M will double the performance of GT3E in games.
Third and perhaps more fundamentally, the GT3e product exists in the top tier of their CPU family. Similar CPUs, such as the i7-4880QM, have an average notebook price of nearly $3,000 according to the market research firm GFK. Notebook buyers can get much better performance at a significantly lower cost by selecting a GeForce notebook. OEMs don’t seem all that impressed with GT3e, as it’s power hungry and expensive. We expect only a tiny number of notebooks will come with GT3e.

Which PC OEMs will be offering Haswell notebooks with discrete GPUs?
Haas: Every major PC OEM will be offering notebooks with Haswell and discrete NVIDIA GPUs.

Most laptops I see in Best Buy have integrated graphics. What does that say about GPU adoption?
Haas: It’s important to keep in mind that U.S. buying habits are quite different from those in other countries. Among major markets, the U.S. has just about the very lowest percentage of notebooks sold with GPUs. If you look at the other top markets — China, Germany, and Russia — you see a dramatically higher percentage of notebooks with GPUs than in the U.S. This trend has been very consistent over the past several years.

Therefore if Haswell has failed to convince most OEMs. How do you wait will convince final users?

My question remains: Do only a 10% of haswell lappies will use the iGPU? A 18%? Your bet?
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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From the same source used in #271. I am quoting the part in the middle which he did not quote in #271 (I underline the relevant parts):



Therefore if Haswell has failed to convince most OEMs. How do you wait will convince final users?

My question remains: Do only a 10% of haswell lappies will use the iGPU? A 18%? Your bet?

How many GPUs does nVidia ship? How many laptops are sold?

I am sure you can see your flaw when you do the math. The only loser is AMD. Nobody wanted their GPUs.

Lets see the first 2 Dells:



No nVidia there. Guess Intels IGP must be good enough for Dell.
 
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CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
2,135
832
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From the same source used in #271. I am quoting the part in the middle which he did not quote in #271 (I underline the relevant parts):



Therefore if Haswell has failed to convince most OEMs. How do you wait will convince final users?

My question remains: Do only a 10% of haswell lappies will use the iGPU? A 18%? Your bet?

When an OEM offers a Haswell based laptop with a Nvidia discrete card, do you think that then stops them from also selling other Haswell based laptops with the IGP in it?

To give you the help you desperately need, just imagine that there are only two OEMs in the world.

OEM 1 sells 4 types of Haswell laptops, 2 with just the IGP, one with a Nvidia discrete card and one with an ATI discrete card.

OEM 2 sells 4 types of Haswell laptops, 3 with just the IGP, one with a Nvidia discrete card.

So what can we say about the above OEM's?

  1. Well we can say that 100% of them(i.e. both OEM 1 & OEM 2) sell Haswell laptops with an Nvidia discrete card in it.
  2. 50% of them sell Haswell laptops with an ATI discrete card in it.
  3. 100% of the OEMs sell Haswell laptops with just an IGP in it.

All 3 statements are correct, but do not mean that the actual percentage of all the laptop units sold, will correlate to the 100%, 50% or 100% examples above.

This is what you have failed to grasp about the 95% of OEM's selling Haswell laptops with Nvidia discrete cards in them.

That is not the same thing as saying that 95% of units sold by these OEMs will have a Nvidia discrete card in them.

At this point I think we've entertained enough discussion on statistics and number theory for a day. So let's bury the 95% thing; it's clearly referring to dGPUs.
-ViRGE
 
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strata8

Member
Mar 5, 2013
135
0
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How many GPUs does nVidia ship? How many laptops are sold?

I am sure you can see your flaw when you do the math. The only loser is AMD. Nobody wanted their GPUs.

Lets see the first 2 Dells:

No nVidia there. Guess Intels IGP must be good enough for Dell.

I'm fairly certain he was talking about the GT3e specifically. The point is that it won't do anything to displace Nvidia GPUs in its segment, and I think that's fair given the high price. Anand also touched on that.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
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I'm fairly certain he was talking about the GT3e specifically. The point is that it won't do anything to displace Nvidia GPUs in its segment, and I think that's fair given the high price. Anand also touched on that.

List price is not sales price for OEMs.

GT3e will certainly be used by Apple.

A 650m takes up quite abit of PCB space, uses extra power and increases RMA rates. Not really a popular thing either.
 

galego

Golden Member
Apr 10, 2013
1,091
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Therefore still trying to ignore stuff like

OEMs don’t seem all that impressed with GT3e, as it’s power hungry and expensive. We expect only a tiny number of notebooks will come with GT3e.
And what about my question? Ignored again? LOL

Some months ago, some enthusiasts claimed that new mobile Intels would be a "unprecendent threat to Nvidia, AMD". Reality is other, Nvidia is laughing at Failwell: slower, and more expensive and power hungry than an old dGPU.

galego, drop it.
-ViRGE
 
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Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
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If AMD can get critical mass & more importantly significant performance by leveraging HSA then you can bet APU's will eat low/mid range dGPU's for lunch, the higher end will remain untouched till you put out a 300W TDP APU.

It already happened. Where is 6670/6650 equivalents? This time lowest dGPU is 7750. As far as I remember 6750 was not entry level GPU, but a budged mainstream card.
It will only go downhill from now. Soon we will be using APUs, or paying $1000+ for dGPU.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,245
2,299
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Anyway, that brings me to my question! In Ganesh's look at the iGPU for HTPC purposes, he talks about QuickSync and how it isn't that good on Haswell compared to Ivy Bridge:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7007/intels-haswell-an-htpc-perspective/8

So, I guess I'm wondering... what's up, doc? Is this a software problem, so I could purchase now and expect it to be fixed later (not always the smartest play), or is this some hardware-related problem? From what it looks like, I'd still have a good boost just using x264 with the new AVX2 extensions, and better video quality.


First of all a tester can't test just one video and make a summary based on this little of facts. A proper reviewer should take more videos into consideration. What he did is nonsense. I have tested 7 videos. I only had one case where IVB did the better job. (VBR better, CQP worse). 2-3 videos were on Haswell better. Quicksync on Haswell in the current state is preliminary. There are a couple of new Quicksync features supported by Haswell. However to support these new things encoder updates are necessary. It also requires a driver update and SDK update.
 
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