Anandtech Haswell review is up!

[AtenRa]

I think you forget the CPU part is over twice as fast as well. And I am sure even the 15W Haswell CPUs will easily beat the A6 4400M.

Irrelevant, im only talking about the iGPU performance here. If you bench the 4770K with 1600MHz memory, im sure that 35W Trinity will be equal or faster in the same games.

 

[R0H1T]

I think you forget the CPU part is over twice as fast as well. And I am sure even the 15W Haswell CPUs will easily beat the A6 4400M.

That's pure speculation not to mention the cost will be probably in the range of ~2x or even more than that, not much of a VFM proposition I'd say :\

 

[ShintaiDK]

Irrelevant, im only talking about the iGPU performance here. If you bench the 4770K with 1600MHz memory, im sure that 35W Trinity will be equal or faster in the same games.

Why do you select a desktop CPU that on purpose dont have the GT3 or GT3e?

What about the 65W 4770R?

IGP is now a lost game for AMD. And their fate as another VIA is unavoidable.

Regarding the last line, this thread isn't about AMD. That's why it's called "Anandtech Haswell Review". Take it to another thread.
-ViRGE

 

[Rvenger]

IGP is now a lost game for AMD. And their fate as another VIA is unavoidable.

Wow, quit thread crapping. You are always bashing AMD. Who cares who is better for crying out loud. Intel's stuff is so damn boring right now too.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Wow, quit thread crapping. You are always bashing AMD.

So you want a forum without debate and/or only one prevailing viewpoint?

 

[R0H1T]

Why do you select a desktop CPU that on purpose dont have the GT3 or GT3e?

What about the 65W 4770R?

IGP is now a lost game for AMD. And their fate as another VIA is unavoidable.

Perhaps because of the fact that one will have to shell out atleast twice as much as compared to an equivalent AMD richland/trinity based part

 

[Rvenger]

So you want a forum without debate and/or only one prevailing viewpoint?

Intel is their own competition now.

 

[boxleitnerb]

GT2 ties Trinity in mobile. GT3e destroys it. Even if Richland is 30% faster than Trinity in mobile, which is VERY optimistic (personally I think 15%), it will not be enough.
In the desktop space, GT3e will be faster than the A10-6800K as well, so Intel will have the fastest solution all around. The only downside is the cost, of course. But given Intels confidence that they will make an even larger jump with Broadwell, the whole situation is very discouraging for AMD. It was only a matter of time until Intel puts their process advantage to good use.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Intel is their own competition now.

As it has been since 2006.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Intel is their own competition now.

There seems to be at least one or two people always claiming an imminent turning of the tables.

Sure those people are wrong about everything(i.e. Bulldozer would be the fastest desktop processor according to benchmarks on some French site), but they sure are vocal. D:

 

[Haserath]

The iGPU in Trinity is close to 98mm2 at 32nm, Iris 4600 is close to 87mm2 at 22nm. Trinity iGPU at 22nm TriGate would be close to 55-60mm2.

Actually, we don't know for sure. Like IDC says, the nodes aren't actually a real measurement.

Trinity is on a gate first "32nm" node at GF vs Intel's gate last "22nm" Trigate node. Gate first is supposedly higher density. And Intel is supposedly bigger than what they say they are(like '26nm' for whatever measurement that is).

There's too many factors. We can only compare the products as they are.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Very boring release as i expected it to be,to much hype for little improvement.

Majority of k chip owners will be overclocking and the majority of those people will not care about hd4600 as they most likely rock a discrete gpu.

Better question is after market heatsink compatibility,will the current 1155 coolers work with 1150 or not?

 

[Arkaign]

Perhaps because of the fact that one will have to shell out atleast twice as much as compared to an equivalent AMD richland/trinity based part

Performance dictates the ability to set pricing. I wish Intel's stuff wasn't as expensive as it is, but we must remember when AMD led, we had $300 to $1k+ X2s.

Going back, it is too much of apples/oranges to compare desktop CPU with HUGELY higher CPU performance and higher clock speeds/TDP constraints to a mobile CPU, and only compare GPU performance (which still leads the given example, despite only using the low-end 4600 as the example).

It's just goofy and nonsensical. Nobody is going to cross shop a Richland or especially a Trinity with an i7. That's like someone choosing between a corvette ZR1 and a prius. Oh, the Prius gets 50Mpg, or I can get 600+HP over here. Different products with differing emphasis. AMD has very slow compute by comparison (particularly in mobile), but very good IGP in the IGP world historically. But the conclusions some seem to make are really insane.

Desktop SKU of hugely higher clockspeed/performance uses more power? SHOCKER!

Discrete GPU with dedicated GDDR5 and dedicated cooling is faster than IGP? SHOCKER!

And 128MB of eDRAM is useless compared to even 1GB of GDDR5. Utterly useless. Unless everything you're doing fits in the cache (doubtful), you're still going to hit the shared DDR3, which brings things to a screeching halt in comparison to even a crappy discrete card like 7750/650. Bring a real discrete card like 7850 or 660 to the table and ALL iGPU looks like the garbage-bin stuff it really is for real gaming usage.

Don't get me wrong, improvements in iGPU are always welcome, but the predictions even waaaaaay back when AMD bought ATI, and the Larrabee hype have ALWAYS fallen flat, and nothing is going to change that for the forseeable future. Discrete is a moving target, and if anything, the gap is only growing as time goes by rather than getting closer. All these years later, can any iGPU game as well as even a $100 GPU like a 7770? No. Not really even close.

 

[Lonbjerg]

It all boils down down:
Die estate.
You can only dedicat so much diespace to IGP.

Hence I will always buy a CPU with no IGP + GPU.

I want to most of my diespace...and I'm not satisfished with the midget "performance" of IGP's.

And what I see here, don't give me incentive to upgrade my 990X right now...need more CPU performance....no perf/watt in order for that to happen.

 

[SiliconWars]

GT2 ties Trinity in mobile. GT3e destroys it. Even if Richland is 30% faster than Trinity in mobile, which is VERY optimistic (personally I think 15%), it will not be enough.
In the desktop space, GT3e will be faster than the A10-6800K as well, so Intel will have the fastest solution all around. The only downside is the cost, of course. But given Intels confidence that they will make an even larger jump with Broadwell, the whole situation is very discouraging for AMD. It was only a matter of time until Intel puts their process advantage to good use.

"The only downside is cost" yeah you're not joking about that.

Cost is the #1 factor in being a viable solution for anything - if you can't make it cheaply then it has to be worth the price.

If it isn't worth the price? Well I guess that's why the PC makers are ignoring it and going with discrete instead.

GT3e is garbage at the price and does not affect AMD or Nvidia's bottom line in any way at all. In around 6 months time I expect AMD to match its performance with Kaveri at 35W and 1/3rd of the price. Guess which one of these will sell by the millions and which one won't?

 

[CHADBOGA]

"The only downside is cost" yeah you're not joking about that.

Cost is the #1 factor in being a viable solution for anything - if you can't make it cheaply then it has to be worth the price.

If it isn't worth the price? Well I guess that's why the PC makers are ignoring it and going with discrete instead.

GT3e is garbage at the price and does not affect AMD or Nvidia's bottom line in any way at all. In around 6 months time I expect AMD to match its performance with Kaveri at 35W and 1/3rd of the price. Guess which one of these will sell by the millions and which one won't?

Little doubt that Intel's CPU's with IGP will continue to massively outsell AMD's.

You seem to think that Intel can't make any moves on price was Kaveri comes out.

 

[SiliconWars]

I'm not talking about that as you well know, I'm talking about this GT3e part that OEM's are avoiding. This is a benchmark hero and nothing else - if you can't make the part at a viable cost then it's a failed part.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Manufacturing cost != selling price.
Intel could easily cut prices in half, they just don't want to.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Manufacturing cost != selling price.
Intel could easily cut prices in half, they just don't want to.

Intel loves their margins, no secret there ^^

 

[LogOver]

I'm not talking about that as you well know, I'm talking about this GT3e part that OEM's are avoiding. This is a benchmark hero and nothing else - if you can't make the part at a viable cost then it's a failed part.

The official price has little to do with the price Intel is offering for big OEMs. Take for example Celeron 847 which has $134 official price, but you can bay it from newegg (MB included) for just $80.

 

[R0H1T]

It's just goofy and nonsensical. Nobody is going to cross shop a Richland or especially a Trinity with an i7. That's like someone choosing between a corvette ZR1 and a prius. Oh, the Prius gets 50Mpg, or I can get 600+HP over here. Different products with differing emphasis. AMD has very slow compute by comparison (particularly in mobile), but very good IGP in the IGP world historically. But the conclusions some seem to make are really insane.

Yes but it's also stupid to think that anyone in their right mind will buy a desktop GT3e that'll be priced upwards of 500$, most probably closer to 600~700$, instead of a mid/high range CPU + any decent dGPU !

Little doubt that Intel's CPU's with IGP will continue to massively outsell AMD's.

And we all know why is that !

Manufacturing cost != selling price.
Intel could easily cut prices in half, they just don't want to.

This will never happen & as it stands now its a complete fallacy !

I recall people criticizing the surface pro tablet for its insane prices, part of it was MS' licensing fees, & the majority of that cost was due to the Intel premium that us consumers & OEM's have to bear ! The Iris & Pro parts do nothing to change the status quo & in fact are contrary to the trend that computing hardware is getting cheaper overall, however IMO its a clever way for Intel to make a quick buck before ARM sucks the blood out of the low end netbook market :sneaky:

 

[mrmt]

My two cents to the discussion:


- It seems a chip built from the scratch for mobile. It packs a lot of punch, both in graphics and CPU power, all that in a power sipping power envelope. In

- I'm kinda impressed by the top iris part. 70-80% of the GT650 + Quad Core Haswell in a 47W power envelope.It will be nice for very small form factors.

- Overall, this is APU doing right, at least from the consumer POV. Once Intel gets to 14nm, it will be APU done right from a cost POV too.

- It might be able to establish itself on tablets.

 

[Haserath]

Manufacturing cost != selling price.
Intel could easily cut prices in half, they just don't want to.

Whoa whoa whoa. Since when could they do that.

They would be in the negative quickly if they did that.

 

[Ares202]

This has most likely been discussed to death previously, but is hyper-threading really worth an extra $100? (actually its about $120 extra here)

 

[notty22]

The official price has little to do with the price Intel is offering for big OEMs. Take for example Celeron 847 which has $134 official price, but you can bay it from newegg (MB included) for just $80.

This.

What was mentioned, 650.00 for the top part.

Take a look at Best Buy, there are always I3 Ivy laptops for 350-380.00 with a intel cpu quoted at 225.00 with a windows license , how do they sell the final laptop for 380.00. With warranty.
It's not magic.