Anandtech Lumia Icon review?

[imported_Sabresiberian]

Is Anandtech going to be able to review the Lumia Icon? I realize you aren't likely to if they don't send you one, but I'd love to see Anand and Brian (Klug) give us their analyses and impressions.

 

[thedosbox]

Isn't it basically a Lumia 1520 with a smaller screen? Same hardware (CPU, GPU, memory, camera, connectivity) otherwise. Doesn't seem worth a full review.

 

[imported_Sabresiberian]

Isn't it basically a Lumia 1520 with a smaller screen? Same hardware (CPU, GPU, memory, camera, connectivity) otherwise. Doesn't seem worth a full review.

Link to full review of the 1520 done on Anandtech?

And, yeah, just the fact that it is a much more manageable 5" screen than the "phablet" sized 6" Lumia 1520 makes an analysis of it important to a lot of people. We have the first mainstream sized Windows phone that is on par with any flagship Android device out there; it deserves thorough coverage by any tech site that can get their hands on an Icon for a review.

The look and feel is going to be different even if it were an exact duplicate shrunk down, but it isn't. The case isn't the same as what is on the 1520. If Anandtech had done a full review of the 1520 I wouldn't expect them to run exhaustive analyses of the hardware that is essentially the same, but adding to it, describing the differences and giving their thoughts on it would certainly make sense and be a welcome small article. Since there is no review on this site of the 1520 though, the only reason not to do a full review is that Microsoft/Nokia didn't send them a phone so they could.

This site is the best smart phone analysis site there is. I want the Brian Klug + Anand Lal Shimpi treatment of it if I can get it.

 

[riversend]

I agree, a review of this phone, even if it is just a single carrier at the moment, would be outstanding. Of course I bring personal bias since I was about to pick up an HTC One since there were no VZW phones for WP8 that seemed worth the purchase, but now I am hesitating a bit to get some more reviews out there. Seems very positive so far, but I'd like a review from this site.

 

[thedosbox]

Link to full review of the 1520 done on Anandtech?

Never claimed there was one. It's a niche phone running a niche OS on one carrier, so it's no surprise to me that it's been ignored thus far.

 

[bearxor]

I believe Anand's stance on Windows phone is that they'll take it seriously once Microsoft does.

In other words, don't hold your breath for a 1520 or Icon review. The editorial staff believes they have said everything they need to say about Windows Phone with the Lumia 900 review. They haven't done a single Windows Phone review since then.

They still cover some Windows Phone things. They covered the 8X release, the 920 release, the WP 8 announcement, the Lumia 1020's camera and one of the staff writers did a write up on why the Lumia 521 was the best phone for $100 you can buy.

But none of those qualifies as a "review". There hasn't been a review since April 2012 and I wouldn't expect that to change until after the release of WP8.1 and a new piece of hardware.

Maybe, just MAYBE we'll get a review of the Lumia 1520 once it's upgraded to WP8.1, provided there's no other new piece of hardware readily available.

 

[notposting]

I wouldn't expect anything until WP8.1 -- looking at some of the features the SDK shows (though not guaranteed), it will be at roughly feature parity with iOS/Android.

Hopefully at that point we see a look at things.

 

[imported_Sabresiberian]

Never claimed there was one. It's a niche phone running a niche OS on one carrier, so it's no surprise to me that it's been ignored thus far.

You said it wasn't worth a review because it was a re-hash of the 1520. That implies the 1520 was already reviewed. It wasn't.

Here in the good old U.S.A. all phones are released on one carrier. Verizon is the largest, actually. As far as it being a "niche" anything - 3% of a market measured in billions supported by a world-renowned company that just bought another world-renowned company in order to grow that market share isn't "niche". Windows phones currently hold the #3 spot in the mobile phone world. (To put that 3% in perspective, iOS has only 17% of the market share at this point.)

I believe Anand's stance on Windows phone is that they'll take it seriously once Microsoft does.

In other words, don't hold your breath for a 1520 or Icon review. The editorial staff believes they have said everything they need to say about Windows Phone with the Lumia 900 review. They haven't done a single Windows Phone review since then.

They still cover some Windows Phone things. They covered the 8X release, the 920 release, the WP 8 announcement, the Lumia 1020's camera and one of the staff writers did a write up on why the Lumia 521 was the best phone for $100 you can buy.

But none of those qualifies as a "review". There hasn't been a review since April 2012 and I wouldn't expect that to change until after the release of WP8.1 and a new piece of hardware.

Maybe, just MAYBE we'll get a review of the Lumia 1520 once it's upgraded to WP8.1, provided there's no other new piece of hardware readily available.

Personally, I think buying Nokia and then releasing a phone that matches the flagship phones of any other company are strong signs that Microsoft is committed here. Whether or not their marketing team knows enough to send phones for review to sites like Anandtech.com is another matter, but it's pretty clear to me that MS is a serious player at this point. The 920 was a positive step, but it was still behind the curve when it was released. The 1520/Icon are only behind the curve in the sense that they are a good half a year out from the last Android refresh, and will likely be eclipsed in a few more months, but as it stands now, no one makes a technically superior phone.

I'm certainly not going to fault Anand and staff for choosing other things to cover, I'm sure they have more than they can possibly do in a timely manner as it stands (hence the call for more writers). If they do have time, if they can get an Icon to review, I'd like to hear what they have to say about it.

 

[bearxor]

Releasing hardware isn't proving anything. Let alone hardware that was in development well before Microsoft's acquisition was completed.

Honestly, these days, hardware is 25% of the experience. Microsoft needs to show it in software.

I used to think that WP8.1 would solve everything but I'm really starting to back off that stance the more information gets released. Suffice it to say that Microsoft needs to bring it BIG in April and then they need to keep delivering. One major release and three point upgrades every 18 months isn't proving that they're taking the mobile space seriously.

I think they will get serious about it in 2014, but see no reason to review a device that delivers essentially the same experience that you got in 2012 but bigger.

 

[IamDavid]

I've been waiting for a good WP on another provider so I jump off of ATT. This phone is the most promising. It'll be hard leaving the 1020 but it'll be ok.

 

[thedosbox]

You said it wasn't worth a review because it was a re-hash of the 1520. That implies the 1520 was already reviewed. It wasn't.

No, it implies that the 1520 wasn't worth reviewing either.

3% of a market measured in billions supported by a world-renowned company that just bought another world-renowned company in order to grow that market share isn't "niche". Windows phones currently hold the #3 spot in the mobile phone world. (To put that 3% in perspective, iOS has only 17% of the market share at this point.)

How much market share do they have in the "good old U.S.A"? And what mix of handsets is that made up of?

Hint: it's not high-end devices.

 

[imported_Sabresiberian]

Releasing hardware isn't proving anything. Let alone hardware that was in development well before Microsoft's acquisition was completed.

Honestly, these days, hardware is 25% of the experience. Microsoft needs to show it in software.

I used to think that WP8.1 would solve everything but I'm really starting to back off that stance the more information gets released. Suffice it to say that Microsoft needs to bring it BIG in April and then they need to keep delivering. One major release and three point upgrades every 18 months isn't proving that they're taking the mobile space seriously.

I think they will get serious about it in 2014, but see no reason to review a device that delivers essentially the same experience that you got in 2012 but bigger.

I agree that Microsoft needs to continue their efforts on all fronts; they caught up hardware-wise but not in a timely manner, and they need to fix that.

However, I don't agree that the Win 8 OS is far behind Android in any sense. And, I disagree that the hardware is only 25% of the experience. Regardless of the truth of that though, I believe people buy hardware over OS. Certainly that's true of PC gearheads that like to have the latest and greatest - and most people understand that flagship devices don't necessarily make the bulk of your sales, but they do help drive sales on all fronts.

A lot of people, including many Win phone users, are basing their opinions on outdated information. I can understand not wanting to cater to what Anandtech might think of as 3% of the reader base, but on the other hand not reviewing Windows phones is helping keep the incorrect beliefs in place.

This brings me to your comment that the Lumia Icon will give essentially the same experience as a Windows phone made in 2012. If you think that you are badly misinformed or one of those people that shouldn't buy a flagship device because its benefits are wasted on you. The processor is much faster, the screen is much higher resolution and better quality, and the OS has been updated since then.

You have proven my point: Anandtech would serve their readers best by educating them, giving them the facts about where Windows phones stand right now.

 

[bearxor]

I agree that Microsoft needs to continue their efforts on all fronts; they caught up hardware-wise but not in a timely manner, and they need to fix that.

However, I don't agree that the Win 8 OS is far behind Android in any sense. And, I disagree that the hardware is only 25% of the experience. Regardless of the truth of that though, I believe people buy hardware over OS. Certainly that's true of PC gearheads that like to have the latest and greatest - and most people understand that flagship devices don't necessarily make the bulk of your sales, but they do help drive sales on all fronts.

A lot of people, including many Win phone users, are basing their opinions on outdated information. I can understand not wanting to cater to what Anandtech might think of as 3% of the reader base, but on the other hand not reviewing Windows phones is helping keep the incorrect beliefs in place.

This brings me to your comment that the Lumia Icon will give essentially the same experience as a Windows phone made in 2012. If you think that you are badly misinformed or one of those people that shouldn't buy a flagship device because its benefits are wasted on you. The processor is much faster, the screen is much higher resolution and better quality, and the OS has been updated since then.

You have proven my point: Anandtech would serve their readers best by educating them, giving them the facts about where Windows phones stand right now.

A faster processor and a higher resolution screen mean nothing if there's nothing on the platform to take advantage of it.

And yes, despite all the updates done since 2012, I believe the Windows Phone experience has not fundamentally changed from WP7 and WP8.1. Extra features? Sure. But is that enough to warrant someone who has a Lumia 900 to buy a Lumia 920? I don't think so, outside of apps that simply don't support Windows Phone 7.8 anymore. The core experience is the same. Are we supposed to do a full-fledged review every time lock screen notifications are added? Does Nokia's glance screen require a full review? Does Skype integration require a full review? Does adding an extra row of icons on the start screen for 1080p devices require a full review?

Listen, you obviously like Windows Phone, and that's ok. I like Windows Phone too. I really do. I've advocated for Windows Phone on this forum a lot, I think. It's just not there yet for people who do more with their phone than make calls, text or use a web browser. Things don't make sense on it in some places. Some things are just completely useless. They're working on it. If it was awesome, it wouldn't be struggling to gain acceptance in first world countries.

Hardware is only a fraction of the experience. You can have awesome top of the line hardware, like the Galaxy S4, but a poorly executed user experience results in a lot of complaints, like the Galaxy S4. That's where the Lumia 1520 and the Lumia Icon are right now. They're not bad pieces of hardware, but they're not worth anyone already on Windows Phone buying unless you're looking for a specific feature, like the larger screen or 20MP camera. A 1520 delivers largely the same user experience as a Lumia 900 outside of the larger screen and better camera. No one here is going to get excited over an extra column and a couple of rows of icons on the start screen.

I don't really know what else to say. I want to say a lot more but why bother? Nothing I say is going to change your opinion on Windows Phone and vice-versa. Windows Phone is probably the single most frustrating topic in the mobile space for me. I honestly believe Microsoft doesn't understand that they have gold here. It is so awesome yet so clumsy at the exact same time. So many great features, but so many missing. It's why I get a little over zealous in Windows Phone threads. I want it to be better. I really, really, really, REALLY do. But until it is, I have to just turn my head in disgust.

 

[crashtestdummy]

I don't really know what else to say. I want to say a lot more but why bother? Nothing I say is going to change your opinion on Windows Phone and vice-versa. Windows Phone is probably the single most frustrating topic in the mobile space for me. I honestly believe Microsoft doesn't understand that they have gold here. It is so awesome yet so clumsy at the exact same time. So many great features, but so many missing. It's why I get a little over zealous in Windows Phone threads. I want it to be better. I really, really, really, REALLY do. But until it is, I have to just turn my head in disgust.

I have somewhat similar feelings, but am a bit more on the positive side than you are. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm not a power user. I use my phone for calls/texts, email, browsing, and some moderate app use like banking and remote touchpad. The thing I appreciate a lot more is that what it does, it does quite smoothly and without hesitation.

I do agree with you, though, that Microsoft doesn't seem to fully realize how good their system can be and how little really needs to be changed to make it much more mainstream. I'm kind of saddened by how long it's taking to roll out 8.1. Yes, there are a lot of changes in there, but they're mostly small-scale features and cosmetic alterations, things that you should be able to implement quickly if it were a larger focus of their business.

On the topic of the OP, I would suspect that AT will revisit Windows Phone again when 8.1 arrives. Outside of that, what is there to review with the new phones, really? Yes, there are some minor differences in hardware like camera, screen size, and processor, but the software experience is virtually identical across the platform. That's one of the strengths of WP8, IMO (it means that my 521 works far better than it has any right to), but it makes for slightly uninspiring reviews.

 

[Belegost]

I agree that Microsoft needs to continue their efforts on all fronts; they caught up hardware-wise but not in a timely manner, and they need to fix that.

However, I don't agree that the Win 8 OS is far behind Android in any sense. And, I disagree that the hardware is only 25% of the experience. Regardless of the truth of that though, I believe people buy hardware over OS. Certainly that's true of PC gearheads that like to have the latest and greatest - and most people understand that flagship devices don't necessarily make the bulk of your sales, but they do help drive sales on all fronts.

A lot of people, including many Win phone users, are basing their opinions on outdated information. I can understand not wanting to cater to what Anandtech might think of as 3% of the reader base, but on the other hand not reviewing Windows phones is helping keep the incorrect beliefs in place.

This brings me to your comment that the Lumia Icon will give essentially the same experience as a Windows phone made in 2012. If you think that you are badly misinformed or one of those people that shouldn't buy a flagship device because its benefits are wasted on you. The processor is much faster, the screen is much higher resolution and better quality, and the OS has been updated since then.

You have proven my point: Anandtech would serve their readers best by educating them, giving them the facts about where Windows phones stand right now.

Honestly this is not a place where you will get a reasonable review on Windows Phone. Mr. Klug has made it abundantly clear that he personally dislikes it, and will continue to be dismissive of it and Anand's position is not much better. Instead of pushing him to review something he has such a bias against a priori (and likely getting a biased review out) it's better to look for information from other sources.

I'm honestly not sure what some people hold against the system so strongly, when asked about it, all that seems to come up is vague reasons of "being behind" and "not as good" but few specifics are generally forthcoming - or the conversation devolves into discussions on niche applications (OBDII reader apps being one of the more memorable.)

Overall it's best to just not care about other's opinions. I find Windows Phone serves my needs better than the alternatives I've personally tried (iOS and Android), everyone else can use what works for them, and it doesn't affect me at all. Why a few of those people feel the need to harsh on someone else's choices loudly and frequently is beyond me.

 

[bearxor]

I'm honestly not sure what some people hold against the system so strongly, when asked about it, all that seems to come up is vague reasons of "being behind" and "not as good" but few specifics are generally forthcoming - or the conversation devolves into discussions on niche applications (OBDII reader apps being one of the more memorable.)

It boils down to this over and over because we've been over this in these forums over and over and over. If you want specifics, all you have to do is search for the windows phones threads like "who here uses windows phones" and you'll find them. I've literally written a novel about Windows Phone on these forums.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Honestly this is not a place where you will get a reasonable review on Windows Phone. Mr. Klug has made it abundantly clear that he personally dislikes it, and will continue to be dismissive of it and Anand's position is not much better. Instead of pushing him to review something he has such a bias against a priori (and likely getting a biased review out) it's better to look for information from other sources.

I'm honestly not sure what some people hold against the system so strongly, when asked about it, all that seems to come up is vague reasons of "being behind" and "not as good" but few specifics are generally forthcoming - or the conversation devolves into discussions on niche applications (OBDII reader apps being one of the more memorable.)

Anand and Brian have made it clear on the podcasts: they have wanted to give MS a chance for a while.

But they (especially Brian) are tired of promises of faster release cycles and updates to the OS, only for MS to stay in the same cadence for a while now. They feel that, unlike Google or Apple, that MS isn't putting the resources into its mobile OS to make it a first tier offering in the market. If Microsoft would get on a release cycle that is closer to the competition then they have promised to take their phone offerings more seriously.

With that said, I do feel that Windows Phone is a perfectly fine OS that has many advantages and is very efficient with hardware (as demonstrated by its success in the low-end segment). Nokia is a great hardware maker, and it is awesome they are pushing the boundaries for a smartphone camera.

As far as the discussion to why the OS isn't any good, that same circular argument applies to every OS. iOS users have reasons to dislike Android, Android users have a reason to dislike iOS and etc. I think for each user their individual needs determines the best choice, and sometimes that is any of the three. This forum leans Android because of the hackability and expandability for high-end use, but someone else might have different priorities. So as you say, what people say doesn't matter.

The site's front page lack of love for the OS is not based on the bias of forum users. It is based on broken promises from MS in regard to release cycles, their priorities, and quite simply the fact that Intel's efforts on mobile is starting to make all non-x86 Windows look like temporary stopgaps.

 

[gorcorps]

Don't hold your breath for a Windows phone that's only available on a single carrier. Out of the 15 people that may be interested, many probably don't read AT

 

[s44]

Wasn't the problem with the last gen WP devices the inability to run the battery test properly given the way WP app permissions work?

 

[PingviN]

The site has reviewed like two Windows Phones since WP8 was released: HTC 8X and Lumia 521. Don't get your hopes up.

 

[imported_Sabresiberian]

I haven't read any anti-MS phone bias coming from Brian or Anand. Maybe I would have if I followed them on social services like Twitter. Regardless, their personal impressions have always been separated from device performance in the past, and I have no reason to doubt they would give MS phones a fair treatment.

I certainly hope I don't come off as "pushing" this site to review the Icon. I have stated why I think it is important, but it is entirely up to Anand and staff to do what they want to do, and I certainly wouldn't hold it against them because they didn't ring a bell I wanted therm to.

 

[notposting]

I actually agree with most of the posts here. While WP8 works for me, it is certainly missing some key features and has been since the WP7 days. When they went to WP8 all their energy was built rebuilding the underpinnings of the system so the user facing stuff basically didn't improve at all.

When the "highlights" of an update are rotation lock and the ability to close an app from the multitasking screen, well...

WP8.1 sounds pretty damn good. At that point I think a review of some sort will be in order, but we'll see. I would have half expected at least a camera review of the 1020, but that never happened.

 

[s44]

I would have half expected at least a camera review of the 1020, but that never happened.

Why? We never got a camera review of the Z1...

 

[bearxor]

When there was a post in the forum wondering if there was going to be a review of the Lumia 1020, my stance was pretty much the same as it is for the Icon. The 1020 is essentially the same device as the the 920 with a nice camera bolted on. If I wanted a review of the camera, I'd go to dpreview.com. And I did. And it came REALLY close to eating me to switch to WP despite it's faults. But I think the 1020 successor will be way to awesome to buy first gen.

I believe Brian did do some thoughts on the 1020's camera. And the HTC 8X was a preview, not a review, I believe. Though it's still plenty lengthy and probably passes for a review on most sites.

 

[Zstream]

Good review here: http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/19/nokia-lumia-icon-review/