Anandtech member murders 2, commits suicide in Aliso Viejo

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So you don't believe in mental disorders

I know many intelligent, qualified person who would school you on this, but this is ATOT and I've wasted enough time on you.

:roll:

I did not say that. You (like Future Shock) are taking my comments out of context. What I said is that I do not believe that mental disorders are an excuse to commit murder. You might feel sorry for that "poor, suffering" murderer, but I think of the screams of his victims before he shot them.

And if you feel like you've wasted enough time on me, then go back to pining over the fate of the poor and the sick from your position of privilege. Remember, "you care a lot."

I can't believe I'm actually siding with Proletariat over Vic on a issue. I read P&N often but don't really post much, and I hardly EVER side with Proletariat on anything. Vic seems to be one of the few voices of reason in a forum with nothing but trolls.


But Vic, we are not making "excuses" for him, but you have to see where someone comes from to understand why they did what they did. No one in this thread has said that what he did was not wrong, of course it was wrong. Horrible, I mean he did murder two people. But this boys mind did not function how our mind functions. You just cant simply write him off as an evil cold blooded murderer. Things just aren't that simple.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: faboloso112

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
His light it off :brokenheart:

RIP

It's weird to think his anandtech account will just sit there on the server, untouched, unchanging.

so what? that is the condition of a lot of unused accounts.

Only a minority of those unused accounts would belong to people who are now dead.

I find the image poignant, somehow.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Future Shock
Your statement "Everyone who commits murder is a cold blooded murder" is obviously not true - otherwise we would not need the modifier "cold blooded" in the sentatance. The fact that it needs to be said at all belies that your statement is false - simple grammar tripped you up. Moreover, "Cold blooded", as in murder, is defined by MerriamWebster as
" 1 a : done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency <cold-blooded murder> b : MATTER-OF-FACT, EMOTIONLESS <a cold-blooded assessment>". The one thing that a mentally unstable person is NOT is emotionless - in fact emotions are what is driving him/her to commit the act. It is the exact opposite of "cold blooded" - it is a hot-blooded rage. Examples of cold blooded killers are drug dealers who can walk up to the competition on the street corner, blow them away, and turn around and walk slowly away without even getting their heartrate up. Since most murderers DO indeed get emotional about their crimes, we can safely return to your opening sentance and see it for what it is - a misnomer at best.

I don't worry much about my own mental workings - I've been through enough to know that there is little I can't take. That's one of the chief advantages of advancing years...having an experience base to draw upon, and knowing yourself. I'm still here, so Q.E.D...

And Vic, when did you recieve your Phd in Psychology? I didn't know you were educated enough to contradict 98% of the medical world and declare that their is no normal mental condition. That's in Psych 101 at the college level...they define it, talk about it's statistical significance (the well-known Normal Curve), and how it is measured in populations. Frankly, as you have no education in the field, or basis for your assertion, I have nothing to respond to. Saying that there is no such thing as a normal mental state only sounds good in a Woody Allen movie - but that's a MOVIE Vic, not real science...

Future Shock

When all else fails, resort to splitting hairs, talking points completely different from my argument (but conveniently taken out of context from my argument), and personal attacks. Nice work. :roll:

There is something very wrong with people like yourself, those who are always more interested in looking right than being right.

Vic, as far as I can see, all you do is respond ideologically to EVERTHING posted, with little basis of facts, a presumed "right way" of looking at things, and incorrect verbage and communications. Worse, your formal educational basis for most of this seems fairly thin.

And when someone comes along that can actually call you on it, you accuse them of trying to "look right rather than be right."

As every good engineer knows, you can't fix a problem until you can accurately describe it. People like you are so busy trying to show how superior you are that the problem itself doesn't even get described correctly...which further results in the dumbing down of society, and a lack of long-term thought on how to fix them.

There was a great article on Asperger's a year or two a ago in Wired magazine, discussing that the concentration of male and female geeks in Silicon Valley (and other tech parks) was leading to natural self-selection of Asperger's-prone husband and wife, with a statistically significant upward trend in new children with Asperger's. They also suspected that this may increase, as the internet allows people with social dysfunctions to meet remotely, and find tolerance and a suitable partner - who would both be carriers of the genetic pre-disposition. So, society-wide, we will most likely be experiencing an upswing of Asperger's.. Given the difficulty of treatment, and the painfully obvious outcomes that can occur, it is something that we need to consider...but first we have to diagnose it properly, rather than simply labeling the victims (of a genetic fault) as criminals in these extreme cases where it leads to violence. As we can see from William, these victims can easily create other victims...



Future Shock

 

[badmouse]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Rolune
I've had it for 20 years before I was diagnosed(I'm 21 now).. but was only diagnosed after having a near complete mental break down where everything just shut off..(I may have an extreme case I dunno.. but I was able to hide it from myself and everyone around me for 20 years..

anyways.. Asperger's is real.
It can be, like someone said before "To be shy and suffer from this condition would be so crippling.", emotionally mentally and physically crippling...

I can completely understand where this guy comes from. Although killing and suicide are kinda extreme.. he lived in HELL.. and yes it can at times be literal Hell in this life when everything you do. try to do. even think of doing. fails.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone with Asperger's.
You are a perfectionist.
You want to do something. you plan to do it.. but it doesn't get done. or you forget about it.. then you fall in on yourself for failing.
You are an insanely deep thinker. you think about everything and anything. 95% of the time you'll never end up saying the stuff you think about.
You think of ways to communicate 100,000 over and maybe say 2 words when responding to a question then go on months ahead thinking of ways you could have better responed to the question...
Everyone thinks your rude. when your just trying to talk normally to someone.. or try to be in the "in" crowd..
You can't comprehend sarcasm or the need for it.. why people say countless number of things they don't mean..
You want to do something but you can't because you don't know how, or contrastly you want to do something. you do it and amazingly excell at it.
You hyperfocus on things so much you ignore everything around you....

I could go on and on.. but I've pretty much said what I wanted... Hope you all can understand better.

Very good list there, and a good description.
Some people just don't understand how anyone could exist in a state like that, like it's not even possible. Just as someone with Aspergers might not know how someone can just be so carefree about life. I hear the phrase "lighten up" more than I'd like. It's not like there's a "lighten up" switch in my head that I just flick. No easier than telling someone with severe ADHD who's just done two lines of cocaine followed by a 20oz Mountain Dew to sit perfectly still for 5 minutes. Just ain't gonna happen.

Also of note - unusual reactions to common stimuli. When I was a baby, if any water got on my face during a bath, and I mean like just a drop or two, I'd start screaming like it was acid eating through my face. Even today, I still don't like water, hair, or anything on my face.
Sound too, I can hear sounds that a lot of people don't notice - either they can't hear them, or it just isn't a concern. I'll notice when a fan is dying long before it seizes up, or when something is a little bit loose, or certain high frequencies. And I seem to be more sensitive to background noises than most people. Music playing in an adjacent room, I tune into it so easily, and it just becomes all I can think of, whereas someone else doesn't really even notice it.

Thanks for posting, guys. It really helps to understand the condition of Asperger's. Double thanks for the courage it must have taken to post in a place like this where you can't be sure what response you'll get.

edited spelling

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So you don't believe in mental disorders

I know many intelligent, qualified person who would school you on this, but this is ATOT and I've wasted enough time on you.

:roll:

I did not say that. You (like Future Shock) are taking my comments out of context. What I said is that I do not believe that mental disorders are an excuse to commit murder. You might feel sorry for that "poor, suffering" murderer, but I think of the screams of his victims before he shot them.

And if you feel like you've wasted enough time on me, then go back to pining over the fate of the poor and the sick from your position of privilege. Remember, "you care a lot."

Well read my earlier post I never said thought he had an excuse, but he certainly was not a sane person and I wouldn't lump him in the same group as a terrorist or cold-blooded murderer.

I've said this before, but sometimes you really come off as cold and distant. Maybe its just the internet effect though.

 

[badmouse]

I like the Asperger's term for normal - "neurotypical".

 

[RaDragon]

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So you don't believe in mental disorders

I know many intelligent, qualified person who would school you on this, but this is ATOT and I've wasted enough time on you.

:roll:

I did not say that. You (like Future Shock) are taking my comments out of context. What I said is that I do not believe that mental disorders are an excuse to commit murder. You might feel sorry for that "poor, suffering" murderer, but I think of the screams of his victims before he shot them.

And if you feel like you've wasted enough time on me, then go back to pining over the fate of the poor and the sick from your position of privilege. Remember, "you care a lot."

Well read my earlier post I never said thought he had an excuse, but he certainly was not a sane person and I wouldn't lump him in the same group as a terrorist or cold-blooded murderer.

I've said this before, but sometimes you really come off as cold and distant. Maybe its just the internet effect though.

This is so sad on so many levels.. and I hate responding to stuff like this.. but can you tell what the cause of death was for his victims?

I hope there is some God who will save all of their souls and give William the love he could never find..

for the victims... all of them...

Please.. if anyone ever notices a pattern of behavior from someone that is dangerous to themselves or possibly others.. don't be afraid to intervene.

 

Damn......I didn't think the new culture would lead to this.....murderers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Spoof
Damn......I didn't think the new culture would lead to this.....murderers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What exactly are you trying to contribute to this thread?

 

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Spoof
Damn......I didn't think the new culture would lead to this.....murderers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What exactly are you trying to contribute to this thread?

Crap...sorry....what I meant to say was I hope there is a magic guy in the sky who makes everything right ....yeah thats it

 

[eflat]

Originally posted by: badmouse

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Rolune
I've had it for 20 years before I was diagnosed(I'm 21 now).. but was only diagnosed after having a near complete mental break down where everything just shut off..(I may have an extreme case I dunno.. but I was able to hide it from myself and everyone around me for 20 years..

anyways.. Asperger's is real.
It can be, like someone said before "To be shy and suffer from this condition would be so crippling.", emotionally mentally and physically crippling...

I can completely understand where this guy comes from. Although killing and suicide are kinda extreme.. he lived in HELL.. and yes it can at times be literal Hell in this life when everything you do. try to do. even think of doing. fails.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone with Asperger's.
You are a perfectionist.
You want to do something. you plan to do it.. but it doesn't get done. or you forget about it.. then you fall in on yourself for failing.
You are an insanely deep thinker. you think about everything and anything. 95% of the time you'll never end up saying the stuff you think about.
You think of ways to communicate 100,000 over and maybe say 2 words when responding to a question then go on months ahead thinking of ways you could have better responed to the question...
Everyone thinks your rude. when your just trying to talk normally to someone.. or try to be in the "in" crowd..
You can't comprehend sarcasm or the need for it.. why people say countless number of things they don't mean..
You want to do something but you can't because you don't know how, or contrastly you want to do something. you do it and amazingly excell at it.
You hyperfocus on things so much you ignore everything around you....

I could go on and on.. but I've pretty much said what I wanted... Hope you all can understand better.

Very good list there, and a good description.
Some people just don't understand how anyone could exist in a state like that, like it's not even possible. Just as someone with Aspergers might not know how someone can just be so carefree about life. I hear the phrase "lighten up" more than I'd like. It's not like there's a "lighten up" switch in my head that I just flick. No easier than telling someone with severe ADHD who's just done two lines of cocaine followed by a 20oz Mountain Dew to sit perfectly still for 5 minutes. Just ain't gonna happen.

Also of note - unusual reactions to common stimuli. When I was a baby, if any water got on my face during a bath, and I mean like just a drop or two, I'd start screaming like it was acid eating through my face. Even today, I still don't like water, hair, or anything on my face.
Sound too, I can hear sounds that a lot of people don't notice - either they can't hear them, or it just isn't a concern. I'll notice when a fan is dying long before it seizes up, or when something is a little bit loose, or certain high frequencies. And I seem to be more sensitive to background noises than most people. Music playing in an adjacent room, I tune into it so easily, and it just becomes all I can think of, whereas someone else doesn't really even notice it.

Thanks for posting, guys. It really helps to understand the condition of Asperger's. Double thanks for the courage it must have taken to post in a place like this where you can't be sure what response you'll get.

edited spelling

You know I bet there are a lot of folks on this board with vary degrees of Asperger's syndrom and similar disorders. We should really do something to raise awareness of it.

 

[darkplayer]

Originally posted by: orion23
I hate idiots that cannot kill themselves without hurting others.
What a waste of lives!

Tell me about it, you guy's may feel remorse for the murderer but he'll burn for taking innocent lives. That was wrong, either way you look at it.

 

[DidlySquat]

OMG you don't say !!! Let me guess, did he also use email and surf the web ? really ? so he's a fellow internet user !!! wow, how did we miss that, a fellow surfer is a bad seed !!! I wish we could have known and maybe help him......

You lifeless lifers put way too much weight into the fact that he was "AT member". He just registered and posted a few times like who knows how many people on the net, but he was not your friend or even knows or cares you exist

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
OMG you don't say !!! Let me guess, did he also use email and surf the web ? really ? so he's a fellow internet user !!! wow, how did we miss that, a fellow surfer is a bad seed !!! I wish we could have known and maybe help him......

You lifeless lifers put way too much weight into the fact that he was "AT member". He just registered and posted a few times like who knows how many people on the net, but he was not your friend or even knows or cares you exist

and i suppose you think it's okay for you to come in and sh1t on the people that do give a fsck?

if you have read the thread maybe you would have seen a number of posters come in and share their experiences with Asperger's. at least out of all the senseless tragedy, we can learn something.

the fact that the individual was an AT member *does* matter to some people. just because it doesn't matter to you gives you no right to come in and crap on everyone else that possesses some sense of empathy.

 

[tyim]

*pause* *silence*

 

[GTPoompt]

wow... I am amazed by all the crap in this thread.

All you who said, "He'll burn in hell for this.". Well, Imagine that YOU were the one that egged him on to do this action during a depressed state of his where he would listen to almost anything. So you tell him to kill people and commit suicide in a moment of his weakness, where you could control him. Who would burn in hell for this then? You, who told him to commit the crime? or him, for actually commiting the crime?

People who say, "Suicide is for the weak, They don't deserve to live etc..." What if someone you cared for committed suicide, like your parents, your husband/wife etc. You calling them weak for doing that? Just eliminating the gene pool are we?

From what I can tell from the previous pages, it seems that the notion of an internet personality and a real personality are obviously true. Now, I would be suprised if someone says "Took you that long to figure that out?". I've known this for a while, the post can nearly prove it.

And if you people aren't putting up these disguises, well, I won't say

 

[cruiser1338]

I am amazed by the amount of people who find this sad and tragic for Willian Freund. He's a murderer! Why do you feel sorry for him? He killed 2 people he had apparently no connection with and attempted to kill more before his gun jammed. It was calculated. He went out of his way to buy a shotgun and shells on the internet. Feel more sorry for the 20 year old son who had to see his parents murdered and he survive. Feel more sorry for the two people he did kill. But don't feel sorry for the murderer. Everyone can control their actions. As hard as it may be not to let a "mental disorder" take control, it is possible.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: GTPoompt
wow... I am amazed by all the crap in this thread.

All you who said, "He'll burn in hell for this.". Well, Imagine that YOU were the one that egged him on to do this action during a depressed state of his where he would listen to almost anything. So you tell him to kill people and commit suicide in a moment of his weakness, where you could control him. Who would burn in hell for this then? You, who told him to commit the crime? or him, for actually commiting the crime?

People who say, "Suicide is for the weak, They don't deserve to live etc..." What if someone you cared for committed suicide, like your parents, your husband/wife etc. You calling them weak for doing that? Just eliminating the gene pool are we?

From what I can tell from the previous pages, it seems that the notion of an internet personality and a real personality are obviously true. Now, I would be suprised if someone says "Took you that long to figure that out?". I've known this for a while, the post can nearly prove it.

And if you people aren't putting up these disguises, well, I won't say

QFT, finally someone with some common sense decides to post in this thread

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: cruiser1338
As hard as it may be not to let a "mental disorder" take control, it is possible.

Do you have a mental disorder? I would love to hear if you are basing this off of actual experience.

 

[cruiser1338]

I dont have a disorder. Do you? If you do, do you ever lose control and kill people? No.

The people here are blaming his murder on a disorder! It's not something that is normally done by people in this society. It's not something that you should get special dispensation from because a psychologist says that it wasnt his fault, it was his mind. It's all in their heads! It's an excuse to be different and to be treated differently.

However, I am not talking about a disease like Parkinsons or Alzheimers. Those are real, with evidence to go along with it. Prove me scientifically that there is an Aspengers disorder besides a coincidental set of symptoms. Psychologists don't count. Show me an MRI or something that has this on film that says it wasnt his fault that he killed 2 people.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: cruiser1338
I dont have a disorder. Do you? If you do, do you ever lose control and kill people? No.

The people here are blaming his murder on a disorder! It's not something that is normally done by people in this society. It's not something that you should get special dispensation from because a psychologist says that it wasnt his fault, it was his mind. It's all in their heads! It's an excuse to be different and to be treated differently.

However, I am not talking about a disease like Parkinsons or Alzheimers. Those are real, with evidence to go along with it. Prove me scientifically that there is an Aspengers disorder besides a coincidental set of symptoms. Psychologists don't count. Show me an MRI or something that has this on film that says it wasnt his fault that he killed 2 people.

they can't.. as sad as it is.. the man is a cold blooded murderer.. it is obvious..

Take a look at the police report.. it will not say the two people choked on flowers ... they were murdered by a psychopath who happened to not be taking care of his mental disease..

How about finding a mental disease that predisposes one to murder people..

 

[cruiser1338]

My point exactly. There is no justification for murder. He was a killer.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: cruiser1338
My point exactly. There is no justification for murder. He was a killer.

No one debates that he was a killer - now what is your recommendation to help prevent this in the future? Do you think that mandatory death sentatnces for murderers will stop people that are suicidal from killing others?

Uh huh. Might I suggest that you figure out WHY he was a killer, and then work backwards from that? Most of us here that are referring to him as an Asperger's sufferer are not doing it because we feel bad for him - but because it's the only way to figure out what went on in his head, and try to figure out what the warning signs are...

The only real variation is "was he also a victim in his own right, of a malformed mind?" And that is a harder question - certainly as we have read from this thread, Apserger's is pretty difficult to live with, and people certainly don't choose to get it, nor make lifestyle choices that affect their chances of getting it.

Future Shock

 

[Gl4di4tor]

R