AnandtechAMD Carrizo ExcavatorReview

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superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
101
A little off topic, but you do realize a lot of games were published for NES without the Seal of Quality? In fact, some of the best NES games were by Tengen, whom circumvented the NES chip allowing them to not have to get NES approval.

Other companies created dummy studios to bypass the strict 5 game per year rule. If anything, the Seal was restrictive and if some of these companies didn't go on their own to circumvent it, we might not have had some of those NES favorites.
That all happened well after it served its purpose. Plus, Tengen lost in court.

The success of 80 Plus shows that consumers respond to such labels. 80 Plus is a problematic and overly complex standard. If it can succeed a simpler and more worthwhile standard can succeed for boards.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,757
753
136
"Carrizo-L" is Mullins, it is not a Bulldozer design.

But the problem stems from cross compatibility so some OEM's use Carrizo-L boards for Carrizo. The Lenovo Y700 could have been a good system if it wasn't hamstrung by the Carrizo-L board being used for a Carrizo chip.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,873
1,527
136
In the article it was stated that some notebooks would still run in single channel mode even with 2 DIMMs installed. I can see why this would be true if they wanted the same board to also support Carrizo-L. Can you see why a DIMM slot wouldnt work with Carrizo-L if it was wired to the 2nd channel of big Carrizo? AMD should have known this would happen.

You got to be kidding me.
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,709
3,057
106
But the problem stems from cross compatibility so some OEM's use Carrizo-L boards for Carrizo. The Lenovo Y700 could have been a good system if it wasn't hamstrung by the Carrizo-L board being used for a Carrizo chip.

I was aware that Toshiba systems had this issue, however I´m pretty sure I´ve seen Lenovo Y700 doing dual channel in the past. The Y700 is designed as a high-end system, so single channel makes zero sense. I wonder if they´ve made a second revision or if there is something wrong with the review system.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,748
136
I was aware that Toshiba systems had this issue, however I´m pretty sure I´ve seen Lenovo Y700 doing dual channel in the past. The Y700 is designed as a high-end system, so single channel makes zero sense. I wonder if they´ve made a second revision or if there is something wrong with the review system.

Do you mean you've seen a Y700 run dual channel, or a Carrizo/FP4 based one run DC?
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,709
3,057
106
Found it. Check the bios version (CECN43WW) and the Board ID (Allsparks 5B):

Following information seen in this review: http://www.gaminglaptopsjunky.com/lenovo-y700-amd-review-fx-8800p-radeon-m385x/

Then check this (http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4654853) or search "Lenovo 80NY" in http://browser.primatelabs.com/

Geekbench reports "LENOVO Allsparks 5B" as motherboard and the very same bios version.

The memory score matches my results run in dual channel (AMD reference FX-8800P system).
 

alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,836
556
126
In the article it was stated that some notebooks would still run in single channel mode even with 2 DIMMs installed. I can see why this would be true if they wanted the same board to also support Carrizo-L. Can you see why a DIMM slot wouldnt work with Carrizo-L if it was wired to the 2nd channel of big Carrizo? AMD should have known this would happen.

The sadder part is that I am sure several of us saw it coming when carrizo and carrizo-L were described as socket compatible. There was nothing stopping the OEMs from using the same board design for both.

I consider myself a big AMD fanboy, and sometimes when I see something coming from them I think: Are they serious? (E1 chips, wraith cooler fixed speed, carrizo-l single channel, carrizo and carrizo-l socket compatibility...)
 

Dufus

Senior member
Sep 20, 2010
675
119
101
Don't have much to add but as someone crazy enough to own 2 carrizo notebooks, the biggest problem for me by far Is the throttling. Do anything intensive and they both throttle.

Don't know if this thread is of any interest to you.
carrizo-apu-overclocking-undervolting
Itmatt said:
After removing the black filter and using these voltage settings i find 1 hour of Prime Small FFT results in a maximum cpu temperature of 60c. I see zero throttling now.

 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136
The sadder part is that I am sure several of us saw it coming when carrizo and carrizo-L were described as socket compatible. There was nothing stopping the OEMs form using the same board design for both.

I consider myself a big AMD fanboy, and sometimes when I see something coming from them I think: Are they serious? (E1 chips, wraith cooler fixed speed, carrizo-l single channel...)

This single channel myth is impossible by the virtue of Carrizo-L using different pins for the two DIMMs, if a Carrizo is soldered instead the DIMMs can only be connected to a dual channel IMC, if it wasnt the case the same MB wouldnt be compatible with both APUs...
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,748
136
Found it. Check the bios version (CECN43WW) and the Board ID (Allsparks 5B):

Following information seen in this review: http://www.gaminglaptopsjunky.com/lenovo-y700-amd-review-fx-8800p-radeon-m385x/

Then check this (http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4654853) or search "Lenovo 80NY" in http://browser.primatelabs.com/

Geekbench reports "LENOVO Allsparks 5B" as motherboard and the very same bios version.

The memory score matches my results run in dual channel (AMD reference FX-8800P system).

That's a great find.
Take a look at the board shots of the AT review vs the gaminglaptopsjunky review.


Besides the obvious differences that Ian noted such as no WiFi or Battery, you can also see the partial paint job on the heatsink assembly.
Additionally, examine the PCB itself between the DIMM slots and the HDD. The AT picture is pretty bad, but the different silkscreen with the missing white squares on the PCB is obvious. Less obvious is that you can see many traces running in the area by the edge of the board just below the dashed copper line on the AT PCB, but on the GLJ review picture there is just a single wide trace just below that dashed line at board edge.
The PCB itself is a different revision.

Given the general unfinished state of it, the single channel issues, and the different PCB, I almost wonder if AMD just provided Ian with a early rev or prototype of a Carrizo Y700 they had laying around.
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
106
Found it. Check the bios version (CECN43WW) and the Board ID (Allsparks 5B):

Following information seen in this review: http://www.gaminglaptopsjunky.com/lenovo-y700-amd-review-fx-8800p-radeon-m385x/

Then check this (http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4654853) or search "Lenovo 80NY" in http://browser.primatelabs.com/

The memory score matches my results run in dual channel (AMD reference FX-8800P system).

More encouraging results, matches an Intel i7 + GTX 950 in games but it's expensive still. I know that the Y700 chassi is not cheap but $650 - 700 tops should be possible i guess.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,165
136
Dammit, why there is no IGP bench over the 35w parts? And why the 35w Carrizo not given a dual-channel ram?

By default, in the US market, there are no Carrizo laptops with cTDP limits up to 35W and dual-channel RAM. So the review is showing you what you can expect out-of-the-box.

Though I think it's stupid that the Y700 was removed from some of the tests.

That is why I've been arguing that aMD should build ALL their SoCs with HBM and even stick flash on there too. And if they can, make their display controllers require a minimum 1080p panel in order to function. I dont know how feasiable that is, but they need to do this to recover their brand image and actually get some real design wins.

They can actually set the system up to boot only with dual-channel RAM, force the OEM to allow cTDPs of up to 35W by removing some of the configurability, and some other stuff like that thar. I'm sure they could cripple dGPU functionality on some chips to force OEMs not to use bad dGPUs as well, and then they could h4x the iGPU to do as you say and only function with a minimum panel size.

OK let me say here that all this crap is AMD FAULT and im dead serious this time.

DONT let the OEM destroy you, but that is exactly what the OEMs did to Carrizo. They completely destroyed a very nice product with awfully bad designed Laptops.

Okay, that's a fair statement. But, you have to ask yourself: why is AMD going through this crap? They launched a successor to mobile Kaveri, and the OEMs decided to use it as a successor to Puma/Jaguar instead (rather than using Carrizo-L in that space). 15W cTDP limits were only supposed to be a thing for a few units, not damn near all of them.

Also, what kind of leverage does AMD really have? If they locked down their system sufficiently to get the system you're talking about, would AMD have gotten any design wins? Getting mobile Kaveri into US laptops was nearly impossible for them. It's like the OEMs said, "give us 15W chips or we ignore you again. We don't want 35W chips, and we don't care if we can save wattage elsewhere by removing junk dGPUs from the BoM. We got a warehouse full of the things and we gotta move em out somewhere".

shouldn't we have 1 carrizo thread like we have 1 skylake thread?

Maybe . . . that's up to the mods. Though the Carrizo thread we have elsewhere is a preview thread, for what it's worth.

Shoulda been eight Excavator cores with 8MB of L3 in AM3+. That would have been a better use in my opinion.

Shhh you might bring he-who-can-not-be-named into the thread.

Seriously though, you have to wonder what process they would have had to use to make 4m/8t Excavator + L3. AMD has yet to use L3 on anything beyond Piledriver (though apparently the L3 issues were "fixed" in the lab, they just haven't implemented it anywhere). If AMD had used HDL in the design and used the same bulk 28nm for 4m XV, you'd be looking at clockspeeds in the 2.5-3 GHz department by default. Does that still sound like a good idea?

(in the server room, for 2014/2015, YES. Elsewhere . . . ehhhh).
 
Last edited:
May 11, 2008
20,055
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In an era where dual channel memory is a standard... They produce a single channel apu... An Apu ! With a gpu on board. :\
The memory controller is more of a referee here between the gpu and a cpu now. Gpu and cpu contantly battling each other who has the right to the main memory. Cache can do only so much.
If remember correctly, is windows 10 also not 3D rendered ? Makes it no fun.

EDIT:
AMD should be smart and produce an apu that only works with dual channel memory. That way enforcing the use of dual channel memory by OEM designers.
 
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Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
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I finally got around to reading the review.

This is Bulldozer all over again.

2.4x perf/watt improvement my butt. AMD over promised and under delivered again. Just as they did with Kaveri. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35952305&#post35952305

Hopefully the few fans they have left are tired of getting lied to. The only way AMD will stop deceiving people is if they are punished for it.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
I finally got around to reading the review.

This is Bulldozer all over again.

2.4x perf/watt improvement my butt. AMD over promised and under delivered again.

You already know my opinion on the subject but this review is clearly about those crappy laptops, not the actual Carrizo APU. And before anyone jump, yes those laptops are the ones available today and this is what you are going to get. But, that doesnt change the fact that this review is not about the actual Carrizo APU.

No dual memory, no 35W TDP iGPU performance, 35W TDP APU installed in sub par VRM motherboard (throttling) etc etc.
 

deasd

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
554
867
136
You already know my opinion on the subject but this review is clearly about those crappy laptops, not the actual Carrizo APU. And before anyone jump, yes those laptops are the ones available today and this is what you are going to get. But, that doesnt change the fact that this review is not about the actual Carrizo APU.

No dual memory, no 35W TDP iGPU performance, 35W TDP APU installed in sub par VRM motherboard (throttling) etc etc.

There's still some other reviews around, no need to focus at these crappy laotop and AT. Anyway the chip itself is being delivered, and Bristol Ridge which is also EXV based. Forget and get use to these crap.
 

Dresdenboy

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2003
1,730
554
136
citavia.blog.de
I finally got around to reading the review.

This is Bulldozer all over again.

2.4x perf/watt improvement my butt. AMD over promised and under delivered again. Just as they did with Kaveri.
LOL, what are you referring to? AMD even didn't promise such a core efficiency jump on their marketing slides.

I wonder what's holding the SKL/HSW 15W variants back that they don't achieve 2-3x performance/W on average thanks to the 14nm process? Are they thermally limited? Only the BDW achieves that thanks to its optimizations.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
I finally got around to reading the review.

Thanx for letting us know. Its very important

This is Bulldozer all over again.

Absolutely, nothing less than that !

2.4x perf/watt improvement my butt.

Yes. Yes. Yes - more, more

Hopefully the few fans they have left are tired of getting lied to. The only way AMD will stop deceiving people is if they are punished for it.

Punish, punish, punish !


Insulting other members is not allowed.
Markfw900
 
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