Ancient Text says Jesus asked Judas to betray Him

Accipiter22

Banned
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2
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This comes with a caveat...even when I was half way through reading this I thought it sounded suspiciously Gnostic...and then a few sentences later they mention Gnostics...still an interesting read

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/04/06/gospel.judas.ap/index.html


WASHINGTON (AP) -- National Geographic unveiled an ancient manuscript Thursday that may shed new light on the relationship between Jesus and Judas, the disciple who betrayed him.

The papyrus manuscript was written probably around 300 A.D. in Coptic script, a copy of an earlier Greek manuscript.

It was discovered in the desert in Egypt in the 1970s and has now been authenticated by carbon dating and studied and translated by biblical scholars, National Geographic announced.

Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.

The text begins "the secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot."

The key passage comes when Jesus tells Judas "you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothed me."

This indicates that Judas would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his physical flesh, the scholars said.

The manuscript was first mentioned in a treatise around 180 A.D. by a bishop, Irenaeus of Lyon, in what is now France. The bishop denounced the manuscript as differing from mainstream Christianity and said it produced a fictitious story.

There were several gospels in circulation at the time in addition to the four in the Bible. When those gospels were denounced, it was thought that believers hid them away.

The gospel of Judas was kept by a group called the Gnostics, who believed that the way to salvation was through secret knowledge given by Jesus to his inner circle.

National Geographic said the author of the gospel of Judas believed that Judas Iscariot alone understood the true significance of Jesus' teachings.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
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Interesting read... but it falls squarely within what we know about Gnosticism at that time.

 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
3
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Originally posted by: j00fek
give me a break, this is horse sh!t

What is? Gnosticism? Proto-orthodox Christianity in general? Or the fact that they found an ancient text that dates to 300 AD?
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
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Well if it says it in an ancient manuscript it must be true.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
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What did Bush know about this and when did he know it?
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Queasy
What did Bush know about this and when did he know it?

Bush has known since his Yale days. The bonesmen are clearly privvy to this knowledge.
 

UlricT

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2002
1,966
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lol this reminds me of my dad... he will believe anything that is printed in a newspaper!
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: UlricT
lol this reminds me of my dad... he will believe anything that is printed in a newspaper!

Cue "So I Married An Axe Murder":
May Mackenzie: Charlie, hand me the paper.

Charlie Mackenzie: Mom, I find it interesting that you call The Weekly World News "the paper." A paper contains facts.

May Mackenzie: This newspaper contains facts. Look at this. "Pregnant man gives birth." That's a fact!
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Ancient Text says Jesus and Judas swapped at birth. Mass hysteria on whether we are all saved or not to commence shortly.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
Originally posted by: UlricT
lol this reminds me of my dad... he will believe anything that is printed in a newspaper!

yeah, i lol at all the people who believe anything that is printed in the bible.

:evil:
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Check this out, Barabbas' fist name was Jesus, so when they released the wrong Jesus they actually released the right Jesus because Pilate had already beat Jesus with the ugly stick so both of them looked like Jesus. Then Jesus went on to steal and have promiscuous sex while the killed the other (wrong) Jesus because Jesus' life had been boring as fvck and he wanted to have some fun. The End.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
They wrote in pen names or aliases, which wasn't trustworthy back then.
Wow, just because it's ancient, it must be true.
 

JRich

Platinum Member
Jun 7, 2005
2,717
1
71
Originally posted by: alien42
Originally posted by: UlricT
lol this reminds me of my dad... he will believe anything that is printed in a newspaper!

yeah, i lol at all the people who believe anything that is printed in the bible.

:evil:

:laugh:
 

mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
Why is that so unbelievable? Did Jesus not INTEND to be crucified? Something about suffering for the sins of mankind and fulfilling prophesies...
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Why is the fact that it's a Gnostic text a caveat?

ZV

I've noticed people won't believe anything new that sheds light on Christianity. The Bible is the be all end all and thats just the way it is.

In my personal opinion, the Gnostic gospels are even more valid then the gospels written in the bible. Mainly because they haven't been translated 50 times and changed each time.

I still ask Christians occasionally about their thoughts on Mary Magdeline, and they always say its the most blasphemous concept ever spoken of. Frankly, anyone who doesn't believe jesus had a wife just doesn't pay any attention to history at all.
 

batchusa

Senior member
Aug 5, 2004
595
0
0
Originally posted by: AMDZen
Frankly, anyone who doesn't believe jesus had a wife just doesn't pay any attention to history at all.


I am curious regarding this. Can you post some links with some additional info?
 

AlucardX

Senior member
May 20, 2000
647
0
76
i don't understand what this implies:
The key passage comes when Jesus tells Judas "you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothed me."

This indicates that Judas would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his physical flesh, the scholars said.

anyone want to translate.
 

Babbles

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
8,253
14
81
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
Originally posted by: j00fek
give me a break, religion is horse sh!t

Fixed..

It's this sort of closed-minded idiocy that lends to cause problems in the world. Way to go.

Anyhow, I fail to see why so many people are quick to judge this as being false. I am no Biblical scholar in any sort of fashion, however I was under the impression that in the Bible as we know it, Jesus knew Judas was going to sell him out to the Romans. As such, I find it hard to understand why this particular Gnostic citation would not be believable since it would essentially tie-in with what is already accepted; I could see how this would fit into the rest of the account of Jesus' Crucifixion. Now with that being said, I could also see how it would be totally false due to people attempting to spin Judas' actions into a more positive light. However, what would be the purpose of them doing so? Why, in 300CE, would somebody create some document to make Judas look like Jesus' buddy and the only one who really "got it"?
 
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