And God said...

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Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
and? what about the last 1800 years.

The point is Christianity was not a result of the desire for power and wealth. For centuries they were slaughtered and persecuted and gained no wealth. I'm just trying to give you some perspective.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,002
18,350
146
The point is Christianity was not a result of the desire for power and wealth. For centuries they were slaughtered and persecuted and gained no wealth. I'm just trying to give you some perspective.

I have perspective. You're focusing on one portion of their progress, I'm focusing on the portion that I see as a problem.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
The point is Christianity was not a result of the desire for power and wealth. For centuries they were slaughtered and persecuted and gained no wealth. I'm just trying to give you some perspective.

Perspective would be to look at the bigger picture. While the religion was started on principles of selflessness and humility, the vast majority of its time on earth has been spent practicing the exact opposite of that.

That's perspective.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Perspective would be to look at the bigger picture. While the religion was started on principles of selflessness and humility, the vast majority of its time on earth has been spent practicing the exact opposite of that.

That's perspective.

But can you say that you've thoroughly looked into the history of Christianity from all sides? Not just from the point of view from those that hate Christianity no matter what? For example , despite all the miss information and slander the Catholic Church gets, it is one of, if not the largest charitable organization in the world, and has been for who knows how long. They've built who knows how many hospitals and schools throughout the centuries to help those impoverished and in need. Now if Christianity is so cruel why on earth would they even bother doing these things?

If you want REAL perspective you have to look at things from ALL sides and angles not just those that agree with your preconceived notions.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
But can you say that you've thoroughly looked into the history of Christianity from all sides? Not just from the point of view from those that hate Christianity no matter what? For example , despite all the miss information and slander the Catholic Church gets, it is one of, if not the largest charitable organization in the world, and has been for who knows how long. They've built who knows how many hospitals and schools throughout the centuries to help those impoverished and in need. Now if Christianity is so cruel why on earth would they even bother doing these things?

If you want REAL perspective you have to look at things from ALL sides and angles not just those that agree with your preconceived notions.

I never said it's cruel, I said the vast majority of the time its been around its practiced the exact opposite of what it preaches. Do you want to go through the history of Catholicism? Or even the craziness of the Torah/Bible version 1? What about the missionaries? They were certainly not evil, right?

Spare me your pity party.

Any congregation of people that justifies their actions on behalf of god is wrong. These acts aren't done out of true kindness but because god/pope/priest said to be kind. And then there's all the other ones...
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Christian civilizations became the most advanced civilizations on the planet.

On the back of scientific progress. There's a reason Islam is still stuck in their equivalent Dark Ages, do you think it's to do with them not being Islamic enough?

You can't pray for a cannon, nor can you pray your way to winning a war. You can't pray and purge yourself of cancer, nor can you pray for the health of someone else.

There's reality and then there are illusions. Be careful which you choose to embrace
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
On the back of scientific progress. There's a reason Islam is still stuck in their equivalent Dark Ages, do you think it's to do with them not being Islamic enough?

You can't pray for a cannon, nor can you pray your way to winning a war. You can't pray and purge yourself of cancer, nor can you pray for the health of someone else.

There's reality and then there are illusions. Be careful which you choose to embrace

I'm just glad someone prayed for toilet paper....
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
The point is Christianity was not a result of the desire for power and wealth. For centuries they were slaughtered and persecuted and gained no wealth. I'm just trying to give you some perspective.

agreed. It started as something good. Then people in power figured they can get money and more power and it was corrupted.

I am religious. I just think the "church" is the most corrupt and evil thing around.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Christian civilizations became the most advanced civilizations on the planet.

I think Japan might have a quibble with that statement.

Any civilization that has advanced has done so despite religion, not because of it. Let's not forget that for 2000 years Christianity has been fighting against science and any advancement that comes from it. Without the wannabelievers persecuting men of education and vision through the middle ages and the hundreds of years of setbacks that have resulted from Christianity fighting such heretical ideas as the earth revolving around the sun, we would already have a cure for cancer and a permanent colony on Mars.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Let's not forget that for 2000 years Christianity has been fighting against science and any advancement that comes from it. Without the wannabelievers persecuting men of education and vision through the middle ages and the hundreds of years of setbacks that have resulted from Christianity fighting such heretical ideas as the earth revolving around the sun, we would already have a cure for cancer and a permanent colony on Mars.

Well, the first scientists were actually men of the cloth. They had the access to the books and the funds to conduct the experiments as well as the time to do so. While the peons were out toiling the soil, there were priests burying their heads in books in church libraries. They did it out of curiosity. They wanted to find out how "God" worked, so this was actually just another extension in their religious studies. Obviously it deviated when what they found out wasn't what the church or bible was telling them. And then came the shitstorm
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,570
146
Christian civilizations became the most advanced civilizations on the planet.

beacuse they were very good at murdering scores of other civilizations that were of other religions, "converted" such heathens, and were smart enough to not outright torch all of these civilizations' more practical, and useful advancements.

Sure, a lot of knowledge was burned and obliterated under the guise of blasphemy (as with any conquering nation running under the banner of X god), but at the very least, the conquering Christian nations were advanced enough, at the time, to realize that jettisoning all technological progress and knowledge was a bad idea.

Sure, guys like Gallileo are famous examples of retardation winning over progress, and certainly stagnating a few centuries'-worth of growth, but the Christian nations still maintain a "decent" record of allowing for growth in knowledge.


And don't forget that the Islamic nation at the time of Sala'hadin was probably the most advanced in the world, and did as much for technological advancement and culture as any nation-under-religion has ever done. Simply because these guys ended up losing some rather important battles, at one particular time, doesn't discount such contributions, and what could have been.

basically, simply saying that "Christian civilizations became the most advanced" and leaving at that, is dubious and uninformed at best, spurious at worst.
 
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busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
76
The point is Christianity was not a result of the desire for power and wealth. For centuries they were slaughtered and persecuted and gained no wealth. I'm just trying to give you some perspective.

So was communism, socialism, Naxalism(in India), Caste system in Hinduism, etc.

Everyone is persecuted as long as they are the minority. Christians are persecuted in Egypt and Kurds are persecuted in Turkey and Iraq. Hell, even Mormons were persecuted as late as the 80s and Ahmadiyas are being persecuted all over the muslim world even though they identify themselves as Muslims. .
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
From what I understand Christians in the first couple centuries were getting slaughtered on the regular by the Romans and practically no one was getting rich off of it.

Ya alot of people confuse the early christians and teachings to be the same as the HRCC . Thats when true Christianity was basicly destroyed tho its still in the world few people follow the true teachings . Any christian that worships on sunday isn't a member of Christ Church or christian period . They except the Popes authority above Gods. They except the Hrcc bible as inspired . LOL
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,540
16
0
A few ignorant haters will cite a couple examples of where the church was wrong, but ignore the thousands upon thousands of schools and hospitals built by Christian organizations. Who has done more to spread education and medicine around the world than Christians. Not to mention all the great scientists in the past who were religious.
 

Brigandier

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2008
4,395
2
81
A few ignorant haters will cite a couple examples of where the church was wrong, but ignore the thousands upon thousands of schools and hospitals built by Christian organizations. Who has done more to spread education and medicine around the world than Christians. Not to mention all the great scientists in the past who were religious.

They do that because they are good people, not because they are on a mission from god.

Paladins are good for the benefits but tiresome to adventure with.
 

Kantastic

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2009
2,253
5
81
A few ignorant haters will cite a couple examples of where the church was wrong, but ignore the thousands upon thousands of schools and hospitals built by Christian organizations. Who has done more to spread education and medicine around the world than Christians. Not to mention all the great scientists in the past who were religious.

You forgot to mention that the thousands upon thousands of schools are used to indoctrinate young children with ancient fairy tales of a mass murderer. Where did I find my information? The same general area you found yours, down the middle, round the corner, and up my.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
A few ignorant haters will cite a couple examples of where the church was wrong...

No, it's the ignorant wannabelievers who will try to turn the millions upon millions of people killed by the church and the hundreds of years of scientific atrophy and oppression not to mention 2000 years of systemic pedophilia into "a couple of examples of where the church was wrong".
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
No, it's the ignorant wannabelievers who will try to turn the millions upon millions of people killed by the church and the hundreds of years of scientific atrophy and oppression not to mention 2000 years of systemic pedophilia into "a couple of examples of where the church was wrong".

Can you please provide supporting evidence for your claims?
 
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