And God said...

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Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
2
76
www.manwhoring.com
On the back of scientific progress. There's a reason Islam is still stuck in their equivalent Dark Ages, do you think it's to do with them not being Islamic enough?

You can't pray for a cannon, nor can you pray your way to winning a war. You can't pray and purge yourself of cancer, nor can you pray for the health of someone else.

There's reality and then there are illusions. Be careful which you choose to embrace

the christian civilizations for the most part embraced science.(even priests were taking part in the science!) the islamic civilizations post golden age of islam shunned it.
 

Kantastic

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2009
2,253
5
81
the christian civilizations for the most part embraced science.(even priests were taking part in the science!) the islamic civilizations post golden age of islam shunned it.

Pedophilia is not a science.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
the christian civilizations for the most part embraced science.(even priests were taking part in the science!) the islamic civilizations post golden age of islam shunned it.

Oh, yea. Today that's reaffirmed by the literacy rates among the staunchly Islamic countries. It's difficult to remain religious if you're educated.

There is still a division where some christians, and I guess all three abrahamic religions, believe science oversteps its bounds if its findings clash with religious text. It's kinda funny, actually
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,161
18,653
146
Yea power. Notice how as money gains power, religion loses power.

Science is actually the new kid on the power block.

Indeed. What we're seeing today with social issues is a power struggle between the two. It's going to be hard times for religion in general in the coming decades, as people slowly move away from "just believing" and start to question the validity of their faith.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
Can you please provide supporting evidence for your claims?

Yes, I can.

Can you honestly sit there and claim that you're so stupid that you don't know all that stuff already? Please pull your head out from under the skirts of whatever priest you're ummmm, "praying to", at the moment and do a little research.

For claim 1 just google "crusades", "Inquisition", "Huguenots", "Magdeburg", "witch trials", "Chmielnitzki massacres" and "Church role in holocaust", "Church role in Rwanda", "Church role in Vietnam". That's for starters.

Prove to me that you've read up and have even a vague understanding of history and we'll move on to points 2 and 3.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Yes, I can.

Can you honestly sit there and claim that you're so stupid that you don't know all that stuff already? Please pull your head out from under the skirts of whatever priest you're ummmm, "praying to", at the moment and do a little research.

For claim 1 just google "crusades", "Inquisition", "Huguenots", "Magdeburg", "witch trials", "Chmielnitzki massacres" and "Church role in holocaust", "Church role in Rwanda", "Church role in Vietnam". That's for starters.

Prove to me that you've read up and have even a vague understanding of history and we'll move on to points 2 and 3.

Um, yes I have, you'd have to be living under a rock to not know about those historical events. However there's what modern historians claim and what those who are dead set to demonize the church say. Just because you read something online does not automatically mean that is correct. You made a claim now you have to back it up with irrefutable evidence.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,161
18,653
146
Um, yes I have, you'd have to be living under a rock to not know about those historical events. However there's what modern historians claim and what those who are dead set to demonize the church say. Just because you read something online does not automatically mean that is correct. You made a claim now you have to back it up with irrefutable evidence.



 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Um, yes I have, you'd have to be living under a rock to not know about those historical events. However there's what modern historians claim and what those who are dead set to demonize the church say. Just because you read something online does not automatically mean that is correct. You made a claim now you have to back it up with irrefutable evidence.

Oh...

my...

goodness...

Yes, the Crusades were fictional. They didn't actually consist of christians slaughtering everyone in their path.

Maybe your confusion stems from the fact that these atrocities were done centuries ago and thus you think it's excusable. So let's bring up something a bit more relevant and new, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Ustaše

I'm Croatian, btw.

It is well known that many Catholic clergy members participated directly or indirectly in Ustaša campaigns of violence, as is attested in the work of Corrado Zoli (Italian) and Evelyn Waugh (English).[12] The most notorious example is that of expelled Franciscan Miroslav Filipović, known as "the devil of Jasenovac" for running the Jasenovac concentration camp, where estimates of the number killed range between 49,600 and 600,000.[6][11][13] Ivan Šarić is believed to have been the "worst" of the Catholic bishops who supported the Ustaša; his diocesan newspaper wrote: "there is a limit to love. The movement of liberation of the world from the Jews is a movement for the renewal of human dignity. Omniscient and omnipotent God stands behind this movement".[7] Bishop Šarić also appropriated Jewish property for his own use.[7]

The plunder taken from the people murdered at the camp was funneled through the Catholic church, who took a substantial cut themselves. Afterward, they helped many escape to Argentina by providing passports and safe passage.

by the church I mean the Vatican itself.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Oh...

my...

goodness...

Yes, the Crusades were fictional. They didn't actually consist of christians slaughtering everyone in their path.

Maybe your confusion stems from the fact that these atrocities were done centuries ago and thus you think it's excusable. So let's bring up something a bit more relevant and new, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Ustaše

I'm Croatian, btw.



The plunder taken from the people murdered at the camp was funneled through the Catholic church, who took a substantial cut themselves. Afterward, they helped many escape to Argentina by providing passports and safe passage.

Did i ever say they didn't happen? No of course not. You should probably read something more substantial than wikipedia articles. Here's a book from a modern historian regarding the crusades that would probably benefit you more on the topic...

http://www.amazon.com/Concise-Histor...d_bxgy_b_img_y

I also have an audio course by the author if you're interested.

Oh and BTW I never once said that Christians were completely blameless and innocent of anything, many did in fact take part in those atrocities mentioned. What I am saying that alot of the "facts" that do get tossed around are exaggerations or at worst plain old propaganda, and modern historical work has made that clear.
 
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pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Um, yes I have, you'd have to be living under a rock to not know about those historical events. However there's what modern historians claim and what those who are dead set to demonize the church say. Just because you read something online does not automatically mean that is correct. You made a claim now you have to back it up with irrefutable evidence.

That also applies to you, you dumbass. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean you get to play by a different set of rules.

Furthermore, there were very clearly atrocities committed by christians in behalf of the church and even by the church itself spanning over centuries. The fact that it might not have been as bad as some claim doesn't mean it isn't even worse than others have claimed. Such is the way historians operate. For example, the horrors of the inquisition cannot be refuted by a man with a book whilst the overwhelming majority of historians claim the opposite (as a hypothetical). It might not have been quite as bad, but it also could have been exponentially worse than first thought.

If you searched harder I'm sure you'd be able to find a book about how the crusades never even happened and the christians never killed anyone. That extends to the holocaust, 9/11, etc.

Here's another one for you to swallow, just because I want to troll the living fuck out of you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

is he not a christian terrorist? or is the excuse that because he killed innocent people that means he isn't christian? Tell me, if we applied that same logic, what about those hijackers on 9/11? were they not muslim because they too killed innocent people?

And that's the inherent problem with you religious twats. You set different guidelines and moan and bitch when people apply them evenly across the spectrum. And before you go off an atheist-hypocrite tangent, Hitler was an atheist and he did some fucked up shit. Clearly, it isn't about religion or even the lack of it that ties these strings together, but rather that they were fucked up people. So how about you stop the christian pity party? If you want to prove a point, do so on even ground.
 
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Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
That also applies to you, you dumbass. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean you get to play by a different set of rules.

Furthermore, there were very clearly atrocities committed by christians in behalf of the church and even by the church itself spanning over centuries. The fact that it might not have been as bad as some claim doesn't mean it isn't even worse than others have claimed. Such is the way historians operate. For example, the horrors of the inquisition cannot be refuted by a man with a book whilst the overwhelming majority of historians claim the opposite (as a hypothetical). It might not have been quite as bad, but it also could have been exponentially worse than first thought.

If you searched harder I'm sure you'd be able to find a book about how the crusades never even happened and the christians never killed anyone. That extends to the holocaust, 9/11, etc.

Here's another one for you to swallow, just because I want to troll the living fuck out of you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

is he not a christian terrorist? or is the excuse that because he killed innocent people that means he isn't christian? Tell me, if we applied that same logic, what about those hijackers on 9/11? were they not muslim because they too killed innocent people?

And that's the inherent problem with you religious twats. You set different guidelines and moan and bitch when people apply them evenly across the spectrum. And before you go off an atheist-hypocrite tangent, Hitler was an atheist and he did some fucked up shit. Clearly, it isn't about religion or even the lack of it that ties these strings together, but rather that they were fucked up people. So how about you stop the christian pity party? If you want to prove a point, do so on even ground.

Troll me all you want, that's fine with me if that makes you feel better, I have no ill will towards you or anyone on this board for that matter. Again let me state, I never once claimed that no Christians or the Church is blameless of anything. There have been extremely negative events that occurred involving Christians. All I've been saying is to take a look at all the evidence not just that evidence if only to gain a complete understanding of the matters brought up.

Since you like wikipedia so much here's a wiki article regarding the inquisition...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revision_of_the_Inquisition
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Troll me all you want, that's fine with me if that makes you feel better, I have no ill will towards you or anyone on this board for that matter. Again let me state, I never once claimed that no Christians or the Church is blameless of anything. There have been extremely negative events that occurred involving Christians. All I've been saying is to take a look at all the evidence not just that evidence if only to gain a complete understanding of the matters brought up.

Every single one of your responses has been about christians and negating, if any way possible, the atrocities and mass murders and genocides committed by the cross.

Take a look at your responses again and take a look at mine. Notice how I'll spread the blame evenly while you look to lessen it for a single faith.

You deserve to be trolled. What's even worse is that you can't keep up with me
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Every single one of your responses has been about christians and negating, if any way possible, the atrocities and mass murders and genocides committed by the cross.

Take a look at your responses again and take a look at mine. Notice how I'll spread the blame evenly while you look to lessen it for a single faith.

You deserve to be trolled. What's even worse is that you can't keep up with me

Sorry if I'm not keeping up with you, I'm at work and at the same time I'm actually reading some of the articles you posted. And no I have not been negating, all I did was asking for evidence of a few outrageous claims (the magnitude of those claims, not whether they occurred or not)
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Sorry if I'm not keeping up with you, I'm at work and at the same time I'm actually reading some of the articles you posted. And no I have not been negating, all I did was asking for evidence of a few outrageous claims (the magnitude of those claims, not whether they occurred or not)

Every single one of your responses has been about christians and negating, if any way possible, the atrocities and mass murders and genocides committed by the cross.

Take a look at your responses again and take a look at mine. Notice how I'll spread the blame evenly while you look to lessen it for a single faith.

That's exactly what I just said.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Sorry if I'm not keeping up with you, I'm at work and at the same time I'm actually reading some of the articles you posted. And no I have not been negating, all I did was asking for evidence of a few outrageous claims (the magnitude of those claims, not whether they occurred or not)

That's just asinine. I don't need to list the names of all 6 million jews murdered in the holocaust to know that it happened, and it was a total shit show. Your demands are no less silly.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
That's just asinine. I don't need to list the names of all 6 million jews murdered in the holocaust to know that it happened, and it was a total shit show. Your demands are no less silly.

His point is that Historians don't know the exact truth and it may have been less horrible than first thought.

That's not exactly a startling revelation, but it also ignores the opposite. Historian, too, may revise their thinking and embrace a much more vile interpretation as well.

Again, he's being a one-sided douchebag. Every post is about diminishing the horrors caused by the cross whilst ignoring that these responses, my responses, target everyone equally.

It's another typical christian pity party.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
His point is that Historians don't know the exact truth and it may have been less horrible than first thought.

Yeah, it could have been 5.9 million Jews in the holocaust. Or even 5.85, which isn't nearly as bad.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,619
409
126
The catholic church was instrumental in support the worst terrorist group in history: the LTTE in Sri Lanka. LTTE (a tamil separatist group) is the one which taught the modern version of suicide bombing to every other terror group in this world. There was no evil not committed by these people and these people have powerful friends in the Vatican. These incidents are very recent too. The LTTE itself was just defeated militarily a few years ago.

Catholic Church, an ally of Tamil Tiger terrorists
Written By Sri Lanka Guardian on April 4, 2009 | 10:01 AM

By Ranjan Jayakody, Mohan Gunaratnam and Ranjit Surendran

(April 04, Colombo, Sri Lanka Guardian) Desperate situations call for desperate measures and desperate measures can leak out material factors that may have begot or moulded certain movements, their hidden agendas and even ultimate intentions. It has been suspected for a long time that the powerful force behind the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) was the Catholic Church continuing with the Catholic Portuguese colonial traditions of atrocities and carnage that was led by this church in Sri Lanka.

This is not strange or peculiar to Sri Lanka. This is what the Catholic Church has been doing in South America, in the Philippines and other countries where murder and mayhem were the methods used for brutal subjugation of people. The fact that the Catholic Church played a major role in the genesis of the Tiger movement under the cover of Tamil liberation is widely known. But this was hardly suspected that it was a powerful force of such magnitude that it has turned out to be and with such overseas clout that Prabhakaran’s role is an utter minimal factor centred on Sri Lanka and perhaps South Asia.

The real power is certainly overseas and signs of it are now leaking out in a major way. The Catholic Bishop of Jaffna, the Rev Father Thomas Soundaranayagam has unashamedly made several false accusations about conditions for Tamils in Sri Lanka with absolutely no conscience whatsoever.

How can a cassocked guy like him and that too a Bishop of the Realms lie wantonly to claim that Tamils in Sri Lanka suffer extreme privations even without water, toilet and food and other essentials? Suddenly one morning, while in Tamilnadu recently, he must have realized he was in Sri Lanka and wondered where the toilets were. What he saw outside his window must have shocked him.

Bishop Soundaranayagam, who has kept his peace all these years, has suddenly roared into the circus arena like a show animal determined to safe the Tigers. He has no concern for the civilians who, it is now known, were persuaded by the Catholic clergy like Father James Pathinathar to become human shields. Is this a last desperate move by him to save the Tigers? How dare he utter such falsehoods in Tamilnadu?

Talking about toilets, surely Bishop Soundaranayagam is aware how well provided people of Sri Lanka are and in contrast, he should have come to know what this situation is like in Tamilnadu. A feature some months ago proposed to Gopalaswamy that he must get involved promoting toilet facilities in Tamilnadu instead of helping the LTTE to promote terrorism in Sri Lanka.

Now that the LTTE is virtually finished in Sri Lanka, Father Soundaranayagam appears to have decided to sow seeds of desolation and despondency in Tamilnadu working around the corrupt politicians there. At a time when politicians like Gopalaswamy and Nedumaran are suspected of being privies to the assassinations of Rajiv Gandhi, Amirthalingam and several others, it is outrageous that the people of Tamilnadu are tolerant towards such people who can create Tiger terrorism in their state and the ones in the neighbourhood like Kerala, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh.

Tamilnadu is certainly the inevitable option for the Catholic Church to help father this ruthless terrorist force, and for the mini-politicians of Tamilnadu all that matters are the funds that will flow to them. Prabhakaran will be gone but the underworld network he has helped to create will survive and along the southern coasts are settled people from the smuggler village of Valvettiturai who have mastered the art of smuggling over the decades. There is no doubt about the fact that what this movement will opt for is International Terrorism as hired killers for there is lot of money in it. It is to be observed with much concern, the Catholic Church is a dominant factor along the southern coast of Tamilnadu.

Even before the Government of Sri Lanka demands an explanation from the Catholic Church to explain and identify their relationship with the LTTE, it must come out into the open and explain their stand. This should be directly related to the LTTE that has no political ideology whatsoever but only wanted to set up a mafia state and towards which indulged in several killings of Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim political leaders and intellectuals.

When the Muslims were ruthlessly chased away from Jaffna, the Catholic Church remained silent. Most of the Muslim families in Jaffna lived in close proximity to Catholic families. It was the Catholic Church that became the loot keepers of the LTTE especially whatever was heisted from the banks. It was also known that during the early days arms were imported into Jaffna and this was aided by the Catholic Church. It was also suspected church premises were used as torture chambers as well.

Reports meanwhile are fast pouring in from angst-ridden and tortured Wanni residents who have managed to escape from the claws of the Tigers having been forcibly marched and herded as human shields, a major weapon far too often used by this terrorist group. On more than many occasions they were aided in this horrendous act by the clergy of the Catholic Church.

Time and again, the Sri Lanka Guardian has warned that the Catholic Church is heavily involved with the LTTE right from the 1970s. Unfortunately, these warnings were not heeded. Today, desperate moves are being made to save the LTTE and even countries like Mexico and Puerto Rico whose citizens may not have heard of Sri Lanka, are being pressed into service. They are of course Catholic states.

Just before the current crisis erupted in Wanni into a large scale catastrophe, the Rev Father James Pathinathar was actively involved in persuading, even to the level forcing, Wanni residents to flee to Mullaitivu, obviously at the behest of the Tigers to create a massive Human Shield for them. The Tigers knew they would need this as the last hope to achieve a ceasefire. People like Father Pathinathar and the Catholic Church also know that if forced to the ultimate, the Tigers will subject the civilians to slaughter which would give a terrible name to Sri Lanka.

While the Non-Catholic Church remained aloof to this horrendous conspiracy to their honour and credit, there were a couple of foreign-funded fundamentalist protestant priests with massive funds from the US who worked closely with some INGOs and NGOs many of whose representatives have conducted themselves against the Government of Sri Lanka and the people.

One such claiming to represent a phony church appears to have helped Father Pathinathar with the herding of the civilians and also provided certain communication equipment to Pottu Amman. He is also reported to have sought the help of Minister Douglas Devananda on a different matter altogether. Minister Devananda was obviously not aware of his two-timing nature; rather multi-timing activities. He should have checked the antecedents of this priest.

We have confirmed news that on March 27, a group of parents who have escaped from the Tigers reported to the military a horrendous account of their experience focused on a priest who was living with them in the No Fire Zone (NFZ) in Puthumathalan. He forcibly helped the Tigers to recruit more than 550 children and young people.

In order to ensure the safety of their children, some 600 of them were sent to a church just south of Puthumathalan to protect them from the Tigers who were on a ruthless rampage to recruit children. The priest resident in the church, which we presume was Father James Pathinathar, had promised the parents that he would not allow the LTTE to take away their children.

However, when on March 24, a large group of Tiger cadres most of them females arrived, despite the parents informing him about this, the priest allowed them to go into the church. When they ordered the children to go with them, the priest vanished from the scene.

In sheer desperation, several teenagers attacked the Tiger cadres followed by some of the parents. While some fifty children managed to escape, over 500 of them were forced at gun points and taken away in Tiger vehicles. A grandmother told the Daily Mirror that she was able to save her 17-year old grandson after overcoming a female cadre. This youngster, the grandmother who saved him and their entire family have managed to escape to the protection of the armed forces.

The grandmother said: “The life in this area is like living in hell, the priest is openly helping the LTTE to recruit youth. In the night the priest in LTTE uniform used to go with other LTTE cadres to forcibly recruit youth.”

She also said that most other parents are still in the church although they had a chance to escape, hoping the children will come back. It has been well known that the female cadres are the most ruthless of the fighting force having looked up to Prabhakaran as their hero. It is also known that their induction into the force begins with the devastation of the qualities that make women the natural genre of tender loving care. As a result, they become animals.

As horror stories unfold, it is becoming more and more evident that there was a dastardly conspiracy headed by the Catholic Church in which many of the INGO and NGO volunteers were fully involved. The kingpin in this conspiracy appears to be the Catholic Bishop of Manner, Rev Father Joseph Rayappu, who was often the first person consulted by foreign visitors to Wanni and whose fellow workers or volunteers were active there.

One has to also wonder why the Catholic Bishops in other parts of Sri Lanka are silent in this matter of very grave concern. Whoever has the ultimate responsibility and obligation to The Vatican should have taken to task, the Catholic clergy that has given comfort to the brutal Tigers. Since they have not, it would certainly be presumed that either the Catholic Church is an ally of the LTTE or worse, they certainly begot this terrorist movement which means that Vatican has not dispensed with The Inquisition and wants to have the Third World under its thumb at all times.

http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2009/04/catholic-church-ally-of-tamil-tiger.html
 
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