and it starts: Lieberman wants to halt new nuclear plants

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rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
I dunno when that's from, but natural gas has gotten much cheaper recently.

Here's what our finance guys provided to the execs last week as they mull the decision to build a new reactor.

 
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WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Dumbass. Any new design is going to incorporate newer building techniques for seismic activity that weren't designed in to that level 30+ years ago....

New reactors have much higher output too... So in theory you could reduce the number of plants you have if you would only get off your ass and build a few new ones.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
We haven't started building a Nuclear Power Plant since 1977 and it took 20 years to come online. The odds of us starting one before the Japan eartquake was about 20 trillion to one.
 

epidemis

Senior member
Jun 6, 2007
796
0
0
How irresponsible. Right now we have no way to determine the damages, so how about you STFU fear-mongering the only real power source that doesn't pollute, save hydro.
 
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Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,381
96
86
If it takes a 9.0 earthquake followed by a tsunami to almost kinda sorta meltdown a nuclear reactor, then I want Japan building all my power plants.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
If it takes a 9.0 earthquake followed by a tsunami to almost kinda sorta meltdown a nuclear reactor, then I want Japan building all my power plants.

Not only that but the ones in trouble were built in the 60s... We don't stop building bridges when one collapses. We build them better. Same should go for nuclear power.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
The problem in one super big nuclear plant serving a large geographical area is in line loss.
As it is, 50% of electrical power is lost in electrical resistance. Ideally we would want millions of tiny electric power plants spaced every block or so.

There are no easy answers.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
The problem in one super big nuclear plant serving a large geographical area is in line loss.
As it is, 50% of electrical power is lost in electrical resistance. Ideally we would want millions of tiny electric power plants spaced every block or so.

There are no easy answers.

Is that all liberals can say?
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Didnt read whole thread so if this has been said already, sorry..

Do you understand politics ? Lieberman supports nuclear power. By getting out in front on the issue he preserves his credibility for advocating resuming construction after a review of current projects and designs.

Which is a perfectly sensible idea.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
I dunno when that's from, but natural gas has gotten much cheaper recently.

Here's what our finance guys provided to the execs last week as they mull the decision to build a new reactor.



Supposedly the building costs for the next generation reactors will be lower, but there is no way in hell the older ones were even remotely competitive. Hence they were subsidized to the tune of 93 billion dollars. I wonder if your graph takes any subsides into account.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
Supposedly the building costs for the next generation reactors will be lower, but there is no way in hell the older ones were even remotely competitive. Hence they were subsidized to the tune of 93 billion dollars. I wonder if your graph takes any subsides into account.
It doesn't. We're not eligible for any.
 

IBMer

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2000
1,137
0
76
As someone who is currently working for a power company with a Nuclear plant that has been offline for more than a year now because of a containment crack, I can tell you he simply means there might be some lessons learned from what happened to this plant for better precautions. I am totally for more nuclear power, but that doesn't mean there aren't prudent changes that can be made to current designs from the data gathered from this disaster.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Some of the new reactor designs are walk away safe. If the coolant is lost, the reactor quits working. The Soviet bismuth/lead cooled reactors from their Alpha class subs are like that.

My problem with nuclear is that we haven't found a way to complete the cycle, to store high level wastes safely. Yucca mountain was supposed to be the answer to that, but is no more.

The Hanford Washington plant is a disaster waiting to happen, perched above the Columbia river in a geologically active zone. There aren't many earthquakes in the immediate environs, but the geological record indicates that the ones that do occur are quite *large* and devastating. The sooner all nuclear material is removed from that site, the better.

I'm not anti-nuclear. I'm anti- half-assed when it comes to dealing with nuclear waste, however, and with designs that aren't walk away safe.

If nothing else, the situation in Japan should remind us that Murphy's law must be taken into account when contemplating and pursuing nuclear power. To do otherwise is to court disaster and to violate the public trust.

Oh, yeh- although plutonium may occur in trace amounts in uranium ores, it is not considered to be a naturally occurring element on earth. Existing stockpiles were produced in nuclear reactors.
 
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Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,501
126
Some of the new reactor designs are walk away safe. If the coolant is lost, the reactor quits working. The Soviet bismuth/lead cooled reactors from their Alpha class subs are like that.
* * *

Until this diaster it was my layman's understanding that all US nuclear plants were supposed to be like this. It was my understanding that if there is a problem/loss of power the rods were supposed to drop by gravity into the block that stops/greatly slows the reaction. I thought the multiple redundant backup systems beyond simple gravity were just icing on the cake. At least that's the way it has always been sold to us from PR material and tours of the power plants I went on as a kid.

Chernobyl didn't worry me much-Russian design and Russian workmanship. Only the North Koreans would cut more corners on safety than them. This worries me a lot because I think it's safe to assume the nuclear plants in Japan are at least as well designed, built and maintained as those here, including the one about ten miles from my home.

The pro-nuclear proponents here are grossly overreacting, to use a bad pun. All Lieberman said was let's hold up until we figure out what went wrong in Japan, and whether we should make corrections here. Pretty common sense, especially when we don't have a whole lot (if any) new nuclear plants in the construction pipeline anyway. He did not call for shutting down our current plants, or a future ban. The reaction is kind of like when the NRA gets its panties twisted when there are calls to regulate in any way cop killing armor piercing bullets, machine guns or bazookas.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,682
7,181
136
Until this diaster it was my layman's understanding that all US nuclear plants were supposed to be like this. It was my understanding that if there is a problem/loss of power the rods were supposed to drop by gravity into the block that stops/greatly slows the reaction. I thought the multiple redundant backup systems beyond simple gravity were just icing on the cake. At least that's the way it has always been sold to us from PR material and tours of the power plants I went on as a kid.

Chernobyl didn't worry me much-Russian design and Russian workmanship. Only the North Koreans would cut more corners on safety than them. This worries me a lot because I think it's safe to assume the nuclear plants in Japan are at least as well designed, built and maintained as those here, including the one about ten miles from my home.

The pro-nuclear proponents here are grossly overreacting, to use a bad pun. All Lieberman said was let's hold up until we figure out what went wrong in Japan, and whether we should make corrections here. Pretty common sense, especially when we don't have a whole lot (if any) new nuclear plants in the construction pipeline anyway. He did not call for shutting down our current plants, or a future ban. The reaction is kind of like when the NRA gets its panties twisted when there are calls to regulate in any way cop killing armor piercing bullets, machine guns or bazookas.


Pretty much how I feel. Thanks.:thumbsup:

As always, overreactions occur from the extreme ends of the spectrum and the reasoned, practical approach appears somewhere in the middle.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
Until this diaster it was my layman's understanding that all US nuclear plants were supposed to be like this. It was my understanding that if there is a problem/loss of power the rods were supposed to drop by gravity into the block that stops/greatly slows the reaction. I thought the multiple redundant backup systems beyond simple gravity were just icing on the cake. At least that's the way it has always been sold to us from PR material and tours of the power plants I went on as a kid.

Chernobyl didn't worry me much-Russian design and Russian workmanship. Only the North Koreans would cut more corners on safety than them. This worries me a lot because I think it's safe to assume the nuclear plants in Japan are at least as well designed, built and maintained as those here, including the one about ten miles from my home.

The pro-nuclear proponents here are grossly overreacting, to use a bad pun. All Lieberman said was let's hold up until we figure out what went wrong in Japan, and whether we should make corrections here. Pretty common sense, especially when we don't have a whole lot (if any) new nuclear plants in the construction pipeline anyway. He did not call for shutting down our current plants, or a future ban. The reaction is kind of like when the NRA gets its panties twisted when there are calls to regulate in any way cop killing armor piercing bullets, machine guns or bazookas.
That is how it works. That was not the issue in this case. The rods were fully inserted seconds after seismic activity was detected.

The problem is the 7% decay heat that exists immediately following a reactor SCRAM, which decays exponentially.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Dumbass. Any new design is going to incorporate newer building techniques for seismic activity that weren't designed in to that level 30+ years ago....

New reactors have much higher output too... So in theory you could reduce the number of plants you have if you would only get off your ass and build a few new ones.
Shens. I refuse to believe that anything could become more efficient with time. A car in 1970 with 140HP probably got the same gas mileage as a modern Honda Civic, computers were the size of small note pads and could be run from batteries, and nuclear technology was better than ever.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
So we stop nuclear, and obama wants to kill the coal industry.......what does that leave us with?


Decisions, decisions... Let's see, first their's Libya and then Iran which both have tons of oil. I just can't make up my mind so let's flip a coin.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Decisions, decisions... Let's see, first their's Libya and then Iran which both have tons of oil. I just can't make up my mind so let's flip a coin.

Lets just invade the oil bearing countries, enslave the men, breed with the women, and take their oil.
 
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