...and the Lance Armstrong doping rabbit hole goes still deeper....

[Fausto]

Italian paper reports Armstrong paid Ferrari

An Italian newspaper reported Wednesday that Lance Armstrong made payments to controversial Italian doctor Michele Ferrari via a third party company in Switzerland.

The Corriere della Sera, based in Milan, cited an investigation by Swiss and Italian authorities that reportedly showed Armstrong directed funds to a company in the Neuchatel region called Health and Performance.

The paper said Ferrari, who is banned from working with cyclists in Italy, was behind the “anonymous company now in liquidation.”

Ferrari was cleared of criminal charges in 2006. Armstrong has said he has maintained some social contact with Ferrari but has not worked with him professionally since 2004. Armstrong denies doping or any improper relationship with Ferrari.

The Corriere article also says Ferrari has worked recently with Denis Menchov and Michele Scarponi.

Corriere said Italian authorities are investigating about 30 people for involvement with a doping ring run by Ferrari.

For those who do not follow cycling, Ferrari was one of a few major players of the EPO doping era. Cyclists would pay these guys for "training" which essentially amounted to a very carefully constructed doping program designed around an athlete's goals for a given year. Many of the riders he worked with copped lifetime doping bans or retired under a cloud of suspicion.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I admire the hell out of the guy. And being completely honest, even being guilty would not change my opinion of him. Guy is a tenacious battler, with no quit in him, peds or not.

I am a proponent of regulating and prescribing PEDs for professional athletes that want or need them. Each sport can provide its own funding, or ally themselves with others to finance it.

It is cheating due to the rule set,. And I know many fear the physical effects on these athletes, but there are many other occupational hazards they face as well.

I would like to think that usage will get safer as the science and testing moves forward too.

 

[qliveur]

I admire him, too, but it'd be rather ironic if it turned out that his cancer was caused by doping.

 

[Fausto]

I admire him, too, but it'd be rather ironic if it turned out that his cancer was caused by doping.

True, but highly unlikely.

 

[allthatisman]

I admire the hell out of the guy. And being completely honest, even being guilty would not change my opinion of him. Guy is a tenacious battler, with no quit in him, peds or not.

I am a proponent of regulating and prescribing PEDs for professional athletes that want or need them. Each sport can provide its own funding, or ally themselves with others to finance it.

It is cheating due to the rule set,. And I know many fear the physical effects on these athletes, but there are many other occupational hazards they face as well.

I would like to think that usage will get safer as the science and testing moves forward too.

I agree. Hell, he doesn't even have to win for me to want to watch him ride. Without Lance on the tour... it just isn't as interesting for me anymore. I think all sports would be better without drugs (you define that term...) invloved, but the fact is, just about EVERY sport has some sort of doping going on. The NFL would be a much different sport today without it, that's for sure.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

One of the greatest athletes of all time. Doping or not.

 

[Fausto]

I agree. Hell, he doesn't even have to win for me to want to watch him ride. Without Lance on the tour... it just isn't as interesting for me anymore. I think all sports would be better without drugs (you define that term...) invloved, but the fact is, just about EVERY sport has some sort of doping going on. The NFL would be a much different sport today without it, that's for sure.

The problem is that he built this whole Livestrong empire on the premise that he's clean. Sure he gives hope to many people, but the whole premise is looking to be bullshit.

 

[highland145]

I admire him, too, but it'd be rather ironic if it turned out that his cancer was caused by doping.

Chemo made him into superman, that's my theory.

One of the greatest athletes of all time. Doping or not.

This. He doped unless my statement above is true.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

One of the greatest athletes of all time. Doping or not.

Nah. If it turns out he's been doping (something I've contendred for years... you don't dominate a sport as dirty as cycling without it) then he won by cheating. At that point he's just another warm and fuzzy cancer survivor story.

Personally, I don't think there's an "If" to be said. There's really no question in my mind that he did it and eventually the truth will come out. He has a shit-ton of 'B' samples out there waiting to be tested again when the technology catches up.

 

[Slew Foot]

i say pump them all full of steroids and see how fast they go

 

[freegeeks]

I said it many times already years ago, there is no way he could win clean when everyone was doping. Of course I was almost lynched here when I said it ()

Everyone who follows cycling (and I'm not talking about the people who just watch the Tour every year) just know that the guy was "prepared" just like everyone else

He's still one hell of an athlete but he's a cheater just like the rest of them, it's still the greatest sport in the known universe

 

[wheresmybacon]

I don't really care if he cheated at this point. Seems like cycling at the highest level is so dirty if you don't cheat you don't stand a chance.

Track too maybe to a lesser degree.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I don't really care if he cheated at this point. Seems like cycling at the highest level is so dirty if you don't cheat you don't stand a chance.

Track too maybe to a lesser degree.

There's no lesser degree with T&F atheletes. That sport is every bit as dirty as cycling.

Everybody needs to read the book "Game of Shadows". It's not just about Barry Bonds. It's about doping in sports. Very well written and researched.

 

[Fausto]

I don't really care if he cheated at this point. Seems like cycling at the highest level is so dirty if you don't cheat you don't stand a chance.

Track too maybe to a lesser degree.

The problem with the "if everyone is doping then the playing field is level" theory is that not everyone can afford to dope. EPO and most of the other good drugs are really really expensive. On top of this, for them to truly be effective, you need a guy like Ferrari to help you out and monitor all your vital so you don't end up in a body bag like several dutch cyclists when EPO first became available.

Not to mention it sets an abysmal precedent for young aspiring racers.

 

[foghorn67]

So far it's all stories. The most tested athletes in the world.
They'll be testing his B samples 200 years from now.

 

[freegeeks]

So far it's all stories. The most tested athletes in the world.
They'll be testing his B samples 200 years from now.

There are many procyclists that never tested positive but admitted using doping. Floyd Landis admitted himself that he was using all kinds of stuff during most of his career but he only tested positive once

 

[Fausto]

There are many procyclists that never tested positive but admitted using doping. Floyd Landis admitted himself that he was using all kinds of stuff during most of his career but he only tested positive once

Yeah, not having tested positive doesn't really mean much. EPO was completely undetectable for several years.

 

[TheNinja]

I said it many times already years ago, there is no way he could win clean when everyone was doping. Of course I was almost lynched here when I said it ()

Everyone who follows cycling (and I'm not talking about the people who just watch the Tour every year) just know that the guy was "prepared" just like everyone else

He's still one hell of an athlete but he's a cheater just like the rest of them, it's still the greatest sport in the known universe

Spot on! If ALL the other top riders were cheating I find it almost impossible than Lance could have beat them all if he was clean.

The fact still remains if they were all cheating then at least it was a semi-level playing field and it's still impressive to win as many as he did.

But yes, it would tarnish his legacy for sure. I'm not a cycling fan though.

 

[NFS4]

Question... why are people STILL harping on this?

 

[Fausto]

Question... why are people STILL harping on this?

Because he won 7 Tours and has made millions. If he was cheating, it basically blows his whole legacy out of the water.

Also, since he raced for US Postal for a few years, the gov has an interest in whether or not tax dollars were used in sporting fraud. Guy leading the current investigation is the same guy who went after Barry Bonds.

 

[luv2liv]

let them take drugs. i wanna see how fast they can run! let's see how fast they bike! i wanna see baseballs blast right through steel walls at the stadium.

 

[RiDE]

Tyler Hamilton did it for me... I genuinely believed he was clean and a good guy. Guess I was wrong. :hmm: Now that he's definitely going down he's dragging everybody he can with him. Landis is just a douche... in fact I think everybody is a doping douche now. Those Schlong brothers too.

 

[freegeeks]

if Armstrong is really clean he should not have any problem to have his B samples tested. the B samples from his first couple of Tour De France are still in storage and these samples were taken before they started testing for EPO. Let him choose 3 WADA accredited labs to get everything tested independantly from each other and lets see the results....

if he's really clean like he claims to be then this should not be a problem at all

 

[freegeeks]

Tyler Hamilton did it for me... I genuinely believed he was clean and a good guy. Guess I was wrong. :hmm: Now that he's definitely going down he's dragging everybody he can with him. Landis is just a douche... in fact I think everybody is a doping douche now. Those Schlong brothers too.

Tyler Hamilton had this crazy story that he tested positive because he was part of a twin but his twin brother was never born and was absorbed by him in the womb or something

Floyd said that he tested positive because of the bourbon he had the night before

Some Belgian cyclist was caught with EPO in his fridge at home but he said that it was for his sick dog

They all make up the craziest stories...

 

[manly]

if Armstrong is really clean he should not have any problem to have his B samples tested. the B samples from his first couple of Tour De France are still in storage and these samples were taken before they started testing for EPO. Let him choose 3 WADA accredited labs to get everything tested independantly from each other and lets see the results....

if he's really clean like he claims to be then this should not be a problem at all

I'm not a cycling fan, but don't most objective people believe elite cycling hasn't been clean for at least over a decade? It's a sham that Spain's Contador failed a test, and weaseled his way out of it. I'm no Lance fan, but only some Euros truly care about knocking him to the ground. Most Americans probably don't even know where the Tour de France takes place, or what it is.