And then there were two...

[DarrelSPowers]

Okay, so I'm about to graduate with my mechanical engineering degree, and I've been very stressed out lately due to the shitty job market. Even my internship, that specializes in designing green buildings, isn't hiring any full time engineers. Anyway, I haven't had much time for news lately but a friend of mine just informed me of these two bills (house and senate version of the same thing) that legalize and tax recreational marijuana, so hopefully this isn't a repost.

Personally, I'm surprised to see these bills so soon after the decriminalization measure that passed a few months ago. However, with more and more news of the state's budget deficit, and California having a similar bill in the works, I guess it makes sense.

I kinda skimmed through the bill itself, but the thing that blew my mind was the taxes they want to implement, based on thc content. I'll break it down for those too lazy to click the links:

Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Taxes seem a bit crazy to me... I thought $50/oz was reasonable which is what I think CA was doing, but I don't know enough about either bill outside the money figures to give an objective opinion.

The one thing I am thinking though, is there will be lots of HVAC work to be done if people start building growhouses!

Senate Bill - bit easier to read and not truncated

House version

EDIT - upon further reading, I found that there are provisions for tax free home growing, and tax free "gifting" to other adult users. Another cool provision was that felons cannot obtain licenses to grow/sell, but if their felony was cannabis related they're granted amnesty.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Taxes seem a bit crazy to me... I thought $50/oz was reasonable which is what I think CA was doing, but I don't know enough about either bill outside the money figures to give an objective opinion.

The one thing I am thinking though, is there will be lots of HVAC work to be done if people start building growhouses!

Senate Bill - bit easier to read and not truncated

House version

I haven't partook in the Chronic for decades but isn't that tax about the going price on the street?

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

I haven't partook in the Chronic for decades but isn't that tax about the going price on the street?

Yeah... I mean one of the problems with a black market is you don't know that %THC that it has... but for class A its pretty much a 60% tax, and maybe 200% tax for the lower brackets?

Kinda ridiculous, but cigarettes are pretty much taxed that way right?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

I haven't partook in the Chronic for decades but isn't that tax about the going price on the street?

Yeah... I mean one of the problems with a black market is you don't know that %THC that it has... but for class A its pretty much a 60% tax, and maybe 200% tax for the lower brackets?

Kinda ridiculous, but cigarettes are pretty much taxed that way right?

It costs a hair over a buck to produce one pack of cigarettes. The going rate around here is roughly $5.50 per pack.

And if you want to roll your own, the recent tax hike practically doubled the price on a 6oz can of tobacco, and they increased taxes on rolling papers even.

 

[Phokus]

What does you being stressed about graduating with a mechanical engineering degree have anything to do with mass. legalizing marijua... ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

I haven't partook in the Chronic for decades but isn't that tax about the going price on the street?

Yeah... I mean one of the problems with a black market is you don't know that %THC that it has... but for class A its pretty much a 60% tax, and maybe 200% tax for the lower brackets?

Kinda ridiculous, but cigarettes are pretty much taxed that way right?

It costs a hair over a buck to produce one pack of cigarettes. The going rate around here is roughly $5.50 per pack.

Ho-lee-shit. Guess I shouldn't be complaining... but you could argue that there are worse health care costs for cigs vs pot... but I don't want to open that can-o-worms... I'm just surprised I hadn't heard about the bill itself from a real news network yet...

 

[Ronstang]

Hey, I thought you guys said it was going to be cheaper if it was legalized and taxed. So I guess if they implement these taxes all the people who want to grow it and cheat will simply be modern day moonshiners.....and on the wrong side of the law once more. Too damned funny.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Hey, I thought you guys said it was going to be cheaper if it was legalized and taxed. So I guess if they implement these taxes all the people who want to grow it and cheat will simply be modern day moonshiners.....and on the wrong side of the law once more. Too damned funny.

It would be cheaper, they'd save millions of dollars in court costs alone.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Hey, I thought you guys said it was going to be cheaper if it was legalized and taxed. So I guess if they implement these taxes all the people who want to grow it and cheat will simply be modern day moonshiners.....and on the wrong side of the law once more. Too damned funny.

Well, the price (before taxes) will certainly be cheaper, but instead of enriching criminals, this will enrich the state coffers, i think that's more worthwhile.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Hey, I thought you guys said it was going to be cheaper if it was legalized and taxed. So I guess if they implement these taxes all the people who want to grow it and cheat will simply be modern day moonshiners.....and on the wrong side of the law once more. Too damned funny.

tax avasion is easier to swallow than modern drug charges/penalties.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Hey, I thought you guys said it was going to be cheaper if it was legalized and taxed. So I guess if they implement these taxes all the people who want to grow it and cheat will simply be modern day moonshiners.....and on the wrong side of the law once more. Too damned funny.

It would be cheaper, they'd save millions of dollars in court costs alone.

that too

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Hey, I thought you guys said it was going to be cheaper if it was legalized and taxed. So I guess if they implement these taxes all the people who want to grow it and cheat will simply be modern day moonshiners.....and on the wrong side of the law once more. Too damned funny.

Well, the price (before taxes) will certainly be cheaper, but instead of enriching criminals, this will enrich the state coffers, i think that's more worthwhile.

Also I think it would be cheaper than buying good scotch if you compare the amounts of both it takes to get high.

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Hey, I thought you guys said it was going to be cheaper if it was legalized and taxed. So I guess if they implement these taxes all the people who want to grow it and cheat will simply be modern day moonshiners.....and on the wrong side of the law once more. Too damned funny.

Well, the price (before taxes) will certainly be cheaper, but instead of enriching criminals, this will enrich the state coffers, i think that's more worthwhile.

Also I think it would be cheaper than buying good scotch if you compare the amounts of both it takes to get high.

I'd say its about the same.

JW Black goes for $40/750mL here... takes me bout 1/4 the bottle to get a real good buzz.

"Grade A" ... asuume $20/g? Half that is more than enough for me... works out to about the same.

I'd like to do a more serious mathmatical analysis of this, but that will have to wait for after graduation when I'm an unemployed drain on society... think I could get a research grant for this?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
-snip-
Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Stupid, really stupid.

Those taxes are way too high, the point (or at least a major point) of legalization is to put the current drug criminals out of business.

This sure as h3ll is no way to do that. Black market (non-taxed) pot will be hugely popular and just as profitable, if not moreso.

Our prisons will no longer be full of 'dealers', instead they'll be full of the same crew only this time for tax evasion.

Fern

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
-snip-
Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Stupid, really stupid.

Those taxes are way too high, the point (or at least a major point) of legalization is to put the current drug criminals out of business.

This sure as h3ll is no way to do that. Black market (non-taxed) pot will be hugely popular and just as profitable, if not moreso.

Our prisons will no longer be full of 'dealers', instead they'll be full of the same crew only this time for tax evasion.

Fern

Agreed. The Black Market can easily undercut those Prices. I suspect this kind of Policy will run into Reality soon enough and they'll be forced to lower the Taxes. They really haven't thought through this policy at all. Since this is a completely New Revenue Stream, they could have made $Big and still undercut the Black Market price significantly. Someone simply got Greedy.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
-snip-
Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Stupid, really stupid.

Those taxes are way too high, the point (or at least a major point) of legalization is to put the current drug criminals out of business.

This sure as h3ll is no way to do that. Black market (non-taxed) pot will be hugely popular and just as profitable, if not moreso.

Our prisons will no longer be full of 'dealers', instead they'll be full of the same crew only this time for tax evasion.

Fern

Agreed. The Black Market can easily undercut those Prices. I suspect this kind of Policy will run into Reality soon enough and they'll be forced to lower the Taxes. They really haven't thought through this policy at all. Since this is a completely New Revenue Stream, they could have made $Big and still undercut the Black Market price significantly. Someone simply got Greedy.

Well they have to give the Irish Mob and the Kennedy's their cut seeing that this is MA.:shocked:

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
-snip-
Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Stupid, really stupid.

Those taxes are way too high, the point (or at least a major point) of legalization is to put the current drug criminals out of business.

This sure as h3ll is no way to do that. Black market (non-taxed) pot will be hugely popular and just as profitable, if not moreso.

Our prisons will no longer be full of 'dealers', instead they'll be full of the same crew only this time for tax evasion.

Fern

Agreed. The Black Market can easily undercut those Prices. I suspect this kind of Policy will run into Reality soon enough and they'll be forced to lower the Taxes. They really haven't thought through this policy at all. Since this is a completely New Revenue Stream, they could have made $Big and still undercut the Black Market price significantly. Someone simply got Greedy.

Large scale grow operations are pretty easy to catch though. From the perspective of the high volume suppliers (whom I assume the tax would be collected from) it would probably be more desirable in the long term to stay legit and keep their asses out of jail.

Who gives a shit about the guys growing a few lbs a year in their back yard. They're small fish compared to the industrial grow operations that will pop up overnight if it's ever legalized.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
-snip-
Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Stupid, really stupid.

Those taxes are way too high, the point (or at least a major point) of legalization is to put the current drug criminals out of business.

This sure as h3ll is no way to do that. Black market (non-taxed) pot will be hugely popular and just as profitable, if not moreso.

Our prisons will no longer be full of 'dealers', instead they'll be full of the same crew only this time for tax evasion.

Fern

Agreed. The Black Market can easily undercut those Prices. I suspect this kind of Policy will run into Reality soon enough and they'll be forced to lower the Taxes. They really haven't thought through this policy at all. Since this is a completely New Revenue Stream, they could have made $Big and still undercut the Black Market price significantly. Someone simply got Greedy.

Large scale grow operations are pretty easy to catch though. From the perspective of the high volume suppliers (whom I assume the tax would be collected from) it would probably be more desirable in the long term to stay legit and keep their asses out of jail.

Who gives a shit about the guys growing a few lbs a year in their back yard. They're small fish compared to the industrial grow operations that will pop up overnight if it's ever legalized.

You're assuming current Growers will go Legit and/or will be accepted/Licensed as Legit. They may or may not.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

:thumbsup:

Grassachusetts

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
-snip-
Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Stupid, really stupid.

Those taxes are way too high, the point (or at least a major point) of legalization is to put the current drug criminals out of business.

This sure as h3ll is no way to do that. Black market (non-taxed) pot will be hugely popular and just as profitable, if not moreso.

Our prisons will no longer be full of 'dealers', instead they'll be full of the same crew only this time for tax evasion.

Fern

Same with the NFA in 1934. A $200 tax stamp on each item. Big bucks in the 30s...

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
-snip-
Class C - less than 5% THC/Dry Weight - $150 tax/ounce
Class B - between 5% and 10% THC/Dry Weight - $200 tax/ounce
Class A - 10% THC/Dry Weight or more - $250 tax/ounce

Stupid, really stupid.

Those taxes are way too high, the point (or at least a major point) of legalization is to put the current drug criminals out of business.

This sure as h3ll is no way to do that. Black market (non-taxed) pot will be hugely popular and just as profitable, if not moreso.

Our prisons will no longer be full of 'dealers', instead they'll be full of the same crew only this time for tax evasion.

Fern

Agreed. The Black Market can easily undercut those Prices. I suspect this kind of Policy will run into Reality soon enough and they'll be forced to lower the Taxes. They really haven't thought through this policy at all. Since this is a completely New Revenue Stream, they could have made $Big and still undercut the Black Market price significantly. Someone simply got Greedy.

Large scale grow operations are pretty easy to catch though. From the perspective of the high volume suppliers (whom I assume the tax would be collected from) it would probably be more desirable in the long term to stay legit and keep their asses out of jail.

Who gives a shit about the guys growing a few lbs a year in their back yard. They're small fish compared to the industrial grow operations that will pop up overnight if it's ever legalized.

You bring up a good point... but here's a thought I just had.

Like you say, if it is legalized, I would fully expect huge corporate industrial grow-ops popping up to make some big money. However, I would think that pot-smokers are the same folk who hate on big corporations... now would they pass on the corporate grown buds for ones grown by small timers?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: ggnl
-snip-
Large scale grow operations are pretty easy to catch though.

Pot is currently the #1 cash crop in many states. It ain't that easy to find.

'Under ground' farms will mostly stay under ground and reap the huge profits of tax evasion. Looks to me like the same big profits, yet likely less penalty for mere failure to pay taxes.

I see little incentive for the current crop of criminals to turn legit by paying over their profits to the fed gov. Profit motive still there, penalties just reduced.

The major point of legalization is to eliminate their profit motive. This doesn't do that. It just reduces their penalty. Who is gonna be chasing them around to enforce tax collection? H3ll, they're not afraid of SWAT teams with automatic weapons, what are they gonna think of guys with business suits and brief cases (IRS agents).

Fern

 

[Ns1]

if they're gonna legalize with tax amounts THAT high, I'm opening up a hydroponics shop in your state!

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: ggnl
-snip-
Large scale grow operations are pretty easy to catch though.

-snip-
The major point of legalization is to eliminate their profit motive. This doesn't do that. It just reduces their penalty. Who is gonna be chasing them around to enforce tax collection? H3ll, they're not afraid of SWAT teams with automatic weapons, what are they gonna think of guys with business suits and brief cases (IRS agents).

Fern

Excellent point sir.

Politicians are getting greedy.

 

[frostedflakes]

Yeah, those taxes seem a tad high... Still interesting to see other states toying with this idea, but I still wonder if the feds would allow it.