And this is why a large thin aluminum phone is a really terrible idea - *Bend-Gate*

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T_Yamamoto

Lifer
Jul 6, 2011
15,007
795
126
Let me post this here

This isn't right. iPhone's bending problem has nothing to do with aluminum. It has everything to do with geometry.

((Edit: Material choice matters, always. But material has to work together with the geometry it's been shaped into. The choice of aluminum here isn't the limiting factor. The geometric design of the aluminum chassis is.))

Nobody uses pure aluminum for general purpose manufacturing. They use aluminum alloys instead. And the alloys themselves are incredibly diverse.

You can get extremely rigid alloys that will be incredibly difficult to bend even in thin structures prone to bending (such as 7075), but the disadvantage of that is difficulty of machining (and often welding too). This type is dominantly used in transportation industry (automotive, marine, aircraft, etc). Manufacturers take the additional manufacturing costs in order to reap the great strength-to-density ratio.

And then there are buttery soft alloys that are extremely easy to machine (3031 for instance), even manually, but they're also way too deformable to be useful for any load bearing purposes. I don't have too much experience with these, but they're cheap, and generally a good choice for decorative uses.

Apple uses anodized 6000 series aluminum (most likely 6061, possibly a tempered variant like -T4 edit: apparently it's 6003, which is similar to 6061 in properties). This is a good compromise between the extremes, and is the most ubiquitous aluminum alloy out there. It's got good mechanical properties, easy to machine, easy to weld. Their choice of material was correct in this case.

The problem with the iPhone 6 chassis comes from something we call "stress concentration" in engineering and this phenomenon is related to the geometry of an object. More specifically, it has to do with the cross section profile that is being bent.
If you watch the bending test video, you'll notice that iPhone 6 bent exactly at the root of the volume buttons. And if you look even more closely, you'll notice that the bending is actually on just one side -- the side of the volume buttons. The opposite side is actually mostly unscathed.

This is because the cross section area of the bending profile decreases dramatically right at that point. They have cut out a hole to accommodate the volume buttons, and when under loading, the internal stresses of the structure are being concentrated at the base of this cutout. So when the structure fails, it fails at that point. The lower cross section area decreases the resistance to bending, and makes it possible to bend the chassis at a lower applied force than what it would take otherwise, had the volume buttons not been there (but of course they have to be there).

The result here wouldn't have changed if Apple had used plastic in place of aluminum. In fact, it probably would have been worse. Typically phone manufacturers use brittle plastic in their devices (ductile plastic is the kind that feels really cheap and terrible), so the chassis would have broken entirely at the same point. They could have avoided the issue, maybe, if they opted for steel or a tougher aluminum alloy but then you run into other problems and have to retool essentially your entire product line.

The reason why Galaxy Note 3 passes the bending test doesn't have anything to do with the material it's made out of. It has everything to do with the internal geometry of the chassis. The internal magnesium alloy chassis (which isn't any better than aluminum as a material) has an I-beam cross section that is great against bending, and it's further sandwiched between two shells, which are in this case plastic. It's reinforced very thoroughly, to the point where human-applied forces cannot bend the device beyond its "elastic range" (this is the deformation range within which the device can recover to its original state when loads are removed).

Apple could have designed the aluminum chassis in a way that would accomplish the exact same thing, and if they had, people wouldn't be mistakenly criticizing the aluminum here. They would just be talking about how nice the material feels to the touch (because it does, and yes, it is "premium" much more so than plastic). Unfortunately, they fucked it up. Again, it's all in the geometry.

Edit: Some more detail because people are pointing out the magnesium alloy internal chassis in Note 3, even though the material is not what makes the difference.

Found here
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
I saw that same thing over on Reddit - it got bumped to the front page on my version of Reddit. Thanks for putting it up.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
its not just the anti apple people

the whole news world went nuts over it

Apple investors too. Stock's down almost 4% today.

Apple will never, ever admit there's a fault with their products. They'll end up releasing some sort of bumper or stiff case at a deep discount, then quietly fix it when the iPhone 6S Plus comes out next year. That's just par for the course if you're an Apple fan.

A case should prevent the problem from happening. Problem is slapping an Otterbox on the Plus is going to make it fat as well as huge. I can see why people wouldn't like that. Then again, you shouldn't have bought a 6'' phone.
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
Apple investors too. Stock's down almost 4% today.

Apple will never, ever admit there's a fault with their products. They'll end up releasing some sort of bumper or stiff case at a deep discount, then quietly fix it when the iPhone 6S Plus comes out next year. That's just par for the course if you're an Apple fan.

A case should prevent the problem from happening. Problem is slapping an Otterbox on the Plus is going to make it fat as well as huge. I can see why people wouldn't like that. Then again, you shouldn't have bought a 6'' phone.
Explain why Google and Microsoft are also down then?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
The problem is, they aren't going to admit to this in any major way. My 15" 2011 MBP had a GPU failure, thousands of them have had it. I went through 3 logic boards before they replaced it (2 weeks before extended applecare ended). They won't admit to the problem. The "executive relations" team won't admit to it. People outside of warranty have gone through 5-6 logic boards. Why? Because apple does a diagnostic on them, finds out they test fine, then regurgitates them back into the line.

All of the boards are dying from the leadless solder breaking down on the dedicated GPU due to the board overheating. You can't detect that from a simple diagnostic. You need to stick it in a system, let it run for a few hours, stress it, cool it, rinse repeat and then watch it fail eventually. It usually doesn't do it from a cold boot and it isn't always unstable. But they won't listen.

They won't admit it. They don't care. They have $170bn sitting in the bank account on the backs of the users and they don't care. They would rather just issue bonds and buyback stock while avoiding taxes.

Think Different indeed!


Edited to remove the instances of vulgarity and profanity, as well as the non-directed fanboi comment. As a reminder, such things are not tolerated in the tech forums.

Moderator TheStu
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,018
6,470
136
Let me post this here



Found here

Good find. Really interesting read. I wonder if Apple will change the design going forward to something that's more resistant since it doesn't have much to do with the material they're using. It does seem weird that they hadn't run into this problem previously though as one would think they would do a lot of different tests to determine the durability of the product.

Explain why Google and Microsoft are also down then?

Reasons, obviously.
 

Larries

Member
Mar 3, 2008
96
0
0
Just wondering, will a cheap phone case prevent the IP6+ from bending? Asking cause the case will have holes in the same place to hold the button...
 

T_Yamamoto

Lifer
Jul 6, 2011
15,007
795
126
Just wondering, will a cheap phone case prevent the IP6+ from bending? Asking cause the case will have holes in the same place to hold the button...

I would assume a good case (ie: otterbox) would help protect them from bending
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Let me post this here



Found here

Decent enough info.

The AL used for the IP6 is decent AL for what is needed. Again the problem is the cut out, the large surface size of the phone itself, the thinness of the backplate, and the flatness of the backplate.

Had Apple used a thicker backplate, a stronger AL alloy, reinforced the cutouts where the buttons are, made the back of the iphone curved, or a combination of any of those suggestions then there wouldn't be this bending problem with the IP6. The fact it got through QA like that is a bit shameful. I would assume there would have been some stress tests done to the device in various prototype phases. How this slipped through the cracks is strange. More than likely someone getting reamed over it at Apple.

What Apple is probably doing is looking for a fix they could do that probably doesn't involve a case as they know that will alienate their fanbase and customers. What Apple should be doing is redesigning that backplate to rectify this problem, and then issue a recall to exchange out the backplates on existing models with the new improved designed. Part of that premium price that people pay into these devices is for scenarios such as this so that Apple is covered.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,758
754
136
Apple should make a iPhone 6S+ (S for Stylus) to help create more structural integrity or do an LG and move the buttons to the back.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,018
6,470
136
Apple should make a iPhone 6S+ (S for Stylus) to help create more structural integrity or do an LG and move the buttons to the back.

All they likely need to do is add some additional structural support so that it doesn't bend near the volume buttons. I suspect that if they haven't already figured out a new design that doesn't bend, that they're in the process of doing it.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,558
1,181
136
They should stop wearing skinny jeans, I've had aluminum things thinner and far more susceptible to bending then an iPhone 6+ in my front pocket without ever having a problem. It will be a sad sad world if companies start factoring in skinny jeans when they design a product.

It will be a sad world when an individual changes their style and fashion for an electronic device.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
That's because it's Apple.

No one gives a crap if Samsung or HTC phones were bending.

To be frank, Apple has had a long run of devices that have been considered to have top tier design and build quality. Yes there were people who didn't like having a glass back and such, but overall they've been regarded as the ones to beat. To have something as absurd as your entire phone having a PERMANENT BEND in it after just a couple days is a pretty big deal for a company that's pretty much set the bar for smartphone design in many people's mind.

People have complained about Samsung's plastic frame and "creaky" build quality that comes with it for years, so it really doesn't have as good of a reputation to lose in the first place. IMO Apple has a lot more to lose in this category and that's why it's a big deal with the media. Yes it's blown up by people who want to laugh at Apple, but to even have something of this caliber to laugh at is pretty troubling for Apple.
 

Eeqmcsq

Senior member
Jan 6, 2009
407
1
0

Lewis tweeted an explanation for that: "overhead shot was overexposed was when screen reflected off lights, saw the clip, had to re-shoot - conclusion was the same." So this explains the difference in time in the video.

Besides, several other videos show similar results:
http://bgr.com/2014/09/26/iphone-6-plus-bendgate-3/
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,460
775
126
It will be a sad world when an individual changes their style and fashion for an electronic device.

I'm all for anything that will get men to stop wearing Skinny Jeans, maybe Apple and the iPhone are just what's needed here.
 

richierich1212

Platinum Member
Jul 5, 2002
2,741
360
126
I finally got to see and hold the 6+ in person today since a coworker just got it. I can't believe it's about 0.5" longer than my G3. My goodness.
 
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