Andrzej Bania from ATI about the Hardware Analysis Review

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
cliffs?

1. ati says sander used a random number generator
2. sander denies it
3. go to step 1

Nice summary.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
cliffs?

1. ati says sander used a random number generator
2. sander denies it
3. go to step 1

sounds bout right lol

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

*EDIT* I also havent seen ANY website that publishes benchmarks conducted by somebody else and then offers a conclusion to top it off. Any hardware review website, small or big would find a problem with that.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

so WHY are YOU taking Sander's side?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: Rollo
Their reply is a JOKE.

QWould ATI seriously bring 100 of Europe?s top press to a Technology Day where they can run whatever benchmarks they choose if we thought that we were going to lose?"

Errr, did they not invite the press for all their product launches (e.g. Rage, Radeon VIVO, 8500) that did lose? :roll:

Yeah I'm sure there was no release party for all their second/third best products from days gone by.

Can't EVER say anything good about ATI can you?

You can find me saying all sorts of good stuff about the MAXX (loved it), the R300 (loved it, although generic), the VIVO (loved it, although slower), and the X800XTPE (liked it pretty much) if you look.

I just have liked nVidia's products a lot more since last June.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Email conversations

As I have pointed out, honesty is crucial.

Emailing several people at ATI to explain that you are very important, that you have a series of specific demands that must be met as soon as possible and then going on to explain just how bad a job we are doing of keeping you happy is one thing.

However, including ATI's direct competition on 'cc' in such an email is another thing entirely.

To then 'jump to the moral high ground' when your 'threats' have been exposed is laughable.

CONCLUSION: Once you pick the rules of engagement - don't get upset when your true character is revealed later on

Anyone else think this Sander guy sounds like a real a-hole?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

so WHY are YOU taking Sander's side?

I am not... I just dont think ppl have said anything to disprove anything he has done to this point. I have seen personal attacks, a bunch of assumptions, and no data to refute it...Maybe these things wont be able to be proved for awhile, but I dont like the tone of the ATI fans at attacking those who care to even consider these....

So in that case I will stand up for him only so far as to say to ATI fans...show me the proof...otherwise be quiet and we will wait until the big review sites chime in.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

so WHY are YOU taking Sander's side?

I am not... I just dont think ppl have said anything to disprove anything he has done to this point. I have seen personal attacks, a bunch of assumptions, and no data to refute it...Maybe these things wont be able to be proved for awhile, but I dont like the tone of the ATI fans at attacking those who care to even consider these....

So in that case I will stand up for him only so far as to say to ATI fans...show me the proof...otherwise be quiet and we will wait until the big review sites chime in.

You do realise that you are asking ATI to break their own NDA just to prove a "hurt" psycho's article ? Doing that would set a precedent that if yo uwant ATI or Nvidia to break their own NDA, stir up a controversy.

I still find all the people who stand up for Sander as 'funny', ask Anandtech or ANY other website's editors or staff and which side they would support and you'll get only one answer. (Ofcourse not including those dutch websites who were hand in hand with Sander in this controversy)

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Email conversations

As I have pointed out, honesty is crucial.

Emailing several people at ATI to explain that you are very important, that you have a series of specific demands that must be met as soon as possible and then going on to explain just how bad a job we are doing of keeping you happy is one thing.

However, including ATI's direct competition on 'cc' in such an email is another thing entirely.

To then 'jump to the moral high ground' when your 'threats' have been exposed is laughable.

CONCLUSION: Once you pick the rules of engagement - don't get upset when your true character is revealed later on

Anyone else think this Sander guy sounds like a real a-hole?

This is all heresay unless he shows us the emails to confirm this....otherwise this could be the start of a well orchestrated smear tactic to dis-credit him. I think he gave us through his own word enough to be skeptical, but no one will know for sure until the other reviews start being released.

I think his actions were more of a....Heh you didn't invite but I will still be the first review. even if the review was good for ATI he would have gotten the hits...nvidia fans likely would have then flamed him...whole thing is silly but the reasons given to call him a liar do not exist at this point.....If he was really flinging false info ATI could get his site shut down temprorarily. The fact there has not been more aof a harsher action against him (other then some guys making claims on the boards) makes me think ATI isn't either concerned with it or it isn't too far from reality...

I mean we know the psecs versus the nvidia card are a bit lackimg in some areas so did we honestly think it was going to surpass Nvidias by like 10-20%???

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

so WHY are YOU taking Sander's side?

I am not... I just dont think ppl have said anything to disprove anything he has done to this point. I have seen personal attacks, a bunch of assumptions, and no data to refute it...Maybe these things wont be able to be proved for awhile, but I dont like the tone of the ATI fans at attacking those who care to even consider these....

So in that case I will stand up for him only so far as to say to ATI fans...show me the proof...otherwise be quiet and we will wait until the big review sites chime in.

ah but you are . . . read your own replies . . . basically you are stating that we SHOULD believe him because there is "no proof" to refute him.

Well, duh

of COURSE there is no proof - sanders made it so . . . and do you really think ANY company would break their own NDA to refute his assertion of a 2nd-hand benchmark

everything you posted tends to excuse him . . .
:thumbsdown:

as to you're not liking a certain "tone" . . . well, too bad . . . it's Video, not CPUs.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

so WHY are YOU taking Sander's side?

I am not... I just dont think ppl have said anything to disprove anything he has done to this point. I have seen personal attacks, a bunch of assumptions, and no data to refute it...Maybe these things wont be able to be proved for awhile, but I dont like the tone of the ATI fans at attacking those who care to even consider these....

So in that case I will stand up for him only so far as to say to ATI fans...show me the proof...otherwise be quiet and we will wait until the big review sites chime in.

You do realise that you are asking ATI to break their own NDA just to prove a "hurt" psycho's article ? Doing that would set a precedent that if yo uwant ATI or Nvidia to break their own NDA, stir up a controversy.

I still find all the people who stand up for Sander as 'funny', ask Anandtech or ANY other website's editors or staff and which side they would support and you'll get only one answer. (Ofcourse not including those dutch websites who were hand in hand with Sander in this controversy)

I am telling the ATI fans to show me the proof he is lieing beyond inuendo...I know ATI guys wont launch numbers...I didn't ask for that....

So now it is a dutch conspiracy????

You guys really need to start proving the claims you make befoire you wildly throw out accusations....Really....

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

so WHY are YOU taking Sander's side?

I am not... I just dont think ppl have said anything to disprove anything he has done to this point. I have seen personal attacks, a bunch of assumptions, and no data to refute it...Maybe these things wont be able to be proved for awhile, but I dont like the tone of the ATI fans at attacking those who care to even consider these....

So in that case I will stand up for him only so far as to say to ATI fans...show me the proof...otherwise be quiet and we will wait until the big review sites chime in.

You do realise that you are asking ATI to break their own NDA just to prove a "hurt" psycho's article ? Doing that would set a precedent that if yo uwant ATI or Nvidia to break their own NDA, stir up a controversy.

I still find all the people who stand up for Sander as 'funny', ask Anandtech or ANY other website's editors or staff and which side they would support and you'll get only one answer. (Ofcourse not including those dutch websites who were hand in hand with Sander in this controversy)

I am telling the ATI fans to show me the proof he is lieing beyond inuendo...I know ATI guys wont launch numbers...I didn't ask for that....

So now it is a dutch conspiracy????

You guys really need to start proving the claims you make befoire you wildly throw out accusations....Really....

as do you . . . really . . .
:roll:

so your mind is already premade up to believe him

fine

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Duvie
I am telling the ATI fans to show me the proof he is lieing beyond inuendo...I know ATI guys wont launch numbers...I didn't ask for that....

Then how exactly do you want ATI to prove Sander wrong ? Tell me.

Originally posted by: DuvieSo now it is a dutch conspiracy????

Yes, coincidentally that dutch website admin also wasnt on the invitee list.

Originally posted by: DuvieYou guys really need to start proving the claims you make befoire you wildly throw out accusations....Really....

No you have to come up with reasons to believe or support Sander's numbers, until then we wait for the Anantech Review.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
Heh. I like ATI. I would have gotten an ATI for my current machine if I didn't want to do the quadro mod. I think ATI video looks better. My opnion ofcourse but I think ATI fans in here were hurt from the get go about what appears to be disappointing numbers...nevermid the numbers can improve with more mature drivers....nevermind ATI neds to be a lot better to justify the cost out of the gate....That is not Nvidia's fault or Sander's fault...get over it and wait for AT, techReport, Xbitlabs, and other sites to review it. Dont take it so personally...

Its not a matter of your likes or anybody elses'. Sander accused all those who were invited (including Anandtech) as being biased or were sold out to ATI. There in lies the reason to be upset with Sander.

The numbers are a different matter altogether. Until Anandtech comes out with their own article, nobody knows. But we know that we cant believe those numbers from Sander.

So he was hurt for not being involved. I still dont think he would justify himself falsifying numbers to get back. If the reviewes come out and makes his look like night versus day he will have some explaining to do. Why waste your name for this? why take the chance of being sued and trust me you cannot always shield yourslef by saying someone else told me this....Doesn't always work and the gamble could have been financially costly.

I say we wait. I have always said that....I however dont think ATI fans should be called "stupid", "foolish" or whatever cause they see numbers from someone who has done credible reviews in the past and choose to belive them. Many of them have still said they will wait to see other reviews....

I dont see how ATI fans come into this. Sander accused everybody who was invited as being biased, being a staunch supporter of Anandtech I find that as "talking out of his ass". When he has made such foolish comments, I have no reason to believe anything else he has to offer. Simple as that. I'll wait for my anandtech review when it is published.

I dont agree with that but it wouldn;t be the first time one sited didn;t say that aboiut another......

<<well he did just send scripts to some of his AIB mates, and they did the benchmarkin. he has no way to prove how real they are. so he maynot think hes false, (he cant even say) those guys that did the benching could of set him up for a big fall......who knows!>>

I know this, but it deosn't make him any less culpable....He would be risking his neck. i think he must trust the ppl doing the reviews for him. Must be some sort of a relationship here...

Still nothing has been introduced to directly contradict what he has posted....Until then the numbers are real and anyone has the right to believe them without being called "stupid" or "foolish"...

so WHY are YOU taking Sander's side?

I am not... I just dont think ppl have said anything to disprove anything he has done to this point. I have seen personal attacks, a bunch of assumptions, and no data to refute it...Maybe these things wont be able to be proved for awhile, but I dont like the tone of the ATI fans at attacking those who care to even consider these....

So in that case I will stand up for him only so far as to say to ATI fans...show me the proof...otherwise be quiet and we will wait until the big review sites chime in.

ah but you are . . . read your own replies . . . basically you are stating that we SHOULD believe him because there is "no proof" to refute him.

Well, duh

of COURSE there is no proof - sanders made it so . . . and do you really think ANY company would break their own NDA to refute his assertion 2ns-hand benchmark

everything you posted tends to excuse him . . .

as to you're not liking a certain "tone" . . . well, too bad . . . it's Video, not CPUs.

I am saying WAIT...how many times do I have to say it....I am saying in the same end others who refute this need to wait as well.

I am not excusing him. He has no NDA so he can release any data he see fits. If he releases false info his name should be mudd, and he will be finished...which is exactly why I would tend to lean on the side his numbers are closer to reality then some of the ATI fans want to believe. I dont think he would trust his reputation on ppl he doesn't know.

BUt we will see....I say the numbers are interestingh and something to tak into account on an item believed to be 150 dollars more then Nvidias best offering. this alone would make me wait for some more reviews to see if ATI can justify the premium...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: apoppin

everything you posted tends to excuse him . . .

I am saying WAIT...how many times do I have to say it....I am saying in the same end others who refute this need to wait as well.

I am not excusing him. He has no NDA so he can release any data he see fits. If he releases false info his name should be mudd, and he will be finished...which is exactly why I would tend to lean on the side his numbers are closer to reality then some of the ATI fans want to believe. I dont think he would trust his reputation on ppl he doesn't know.

BUt we will see....I say the numbers are interestingh and something to tak into account on an item believed to be 150 dollars more then Nvidias best offering. this alone would make me wait for some more reviews to see if ATI can justify the premium...

ah . . . we agree . . . i am ALSO saying 'WAIT' - look back a bit in my posts - but do NOT be QUICK to BELIEVE an "Axe-grinder's 2nd hand 'benchmarks'"

i am also saying he hasn't that much of a reputation to lose . . . his gamble . . . IF he fabricated the benchs

no one can refute or deny Sanders' claims at this moment with the info we have - the current EVIDENCE leads ME to believe he is lying

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Duvie

BUt we will see....I say the numbers are interestingh and something to tak into account on an item believed to be 150 dollars more then Nvidias best offering. this alone would make me wait for some more reviews to see if ATI can justify the premium...

I love how people continue to compare the STREET price of the Nvidia cards to the MSRP of the ATI cards. *sigh*

 

[crazydingo]

Come on now its obvious some people want to believe Sander's numbers no matter what; Sander has an obvious rift with ATI, wasnt invited, threatened, wrote the article as per his threat, didnt conduct the tests himself, accused everybody on the invitee list as being biased

Yeah ! sure we can still believe Sander's numbers.

*EDIT* As the ATI official said, they invited Nvidia fansites too. So it'll be interesting to see the outcome of their set of benchmarks. :thumbsup:

 

[Powermoloch]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Duvie

BUt we will see....I say the numbers are interestingh and something to tak into account on an item believed to be 150 dollars more then Nvidias best offering. this alone would make me wait for some more reviews to see if ATI can justify the premium...

I love how people continue to compare the STREET price of the Nvidia cards to the MSRP of the ATI cards. *sigh*

ppl need a business class

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: crazydingo
Come on now its obvious some people want to believe Sander's numbers no matter what; Sander has an obvious rift with ATI, wasnt invited, threatened, wrote the article as per his threat, didnt conduct the tests himself, accused everybody on the invitee list as being biased

Yeah ! sure we can still believe Sander's numbers.

*EDIT* As the ATI official said, they invited Nvidia fansites too. So it'll be interesting to see the outcome of their set of benchmarks. :thumbsup:

don't forget the other side of the coin:
Come on now its obvious some people want to DISbelieve Sander's numbers no matter what

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: crazydingo
Come on now its obvious some people want to believe Sander's numbers no matter what; Sander has an obvious rift with ATI, wasnt invited, threatened, wrote the article as per his threat, didnt conduct the tests himself, accused everybody on the invitee list as being biased

Yeah ! sure we can still believe Sander's numbers.

*EDIT* As the ATI official said, they invited Nvidia fansites too. So it'll be interesting to see the outcome of their set of benchmarks. :thumbsup:

don't forget the other side of the coin:
Come on now its obvious some people want to DISbelieve Sander's numbers no matter what

That would have held weight if Sander didnt spam across many boards only to make a fool of himself.

 

[fierydemise]

Quit picking on Duvie hes making some very good points, as to the issue at hand why not table the arguments about R520 vs. G70 until we have multiple sets of benchmarks to look at (October 5th)

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: fierydemise
Quit picking on Duvie hes making some very good points

What good points ? He has yet to offer how ATI could have proved Sander wrong without breaking their own NDA.

Originally posted by: fierydemise as to the issue at hand why not table the arguments about R520 vs. G70 until we have multiple sets of benchmarks to look at (October 5th)

Thank You.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Duvie
I am telling the ATI fans to show me the proof he is lieing beyond inuendo...I know ATI guys wont launch numbers...I didn't ask for that....

Then how exactly do you want ATI to prove Sander wrong ? Tell me.

Originally posted by: DuvieSo now it is a dutch conspiracy????

Yes, coincidentally that dutch website admin also wasnt on the invitee list.

Originally posted by: DuvieYou guys really need to start proving the claims you make befoire you wildly throw out accusations....Really....

No you have to come up with reasons to believe or support Sander's numbers, until then we wait for the Anantech Review.

1) ATI can file some legal action. I would tend to give them some credibiliuty there. Figt for what is right. i am sure they have tons of lawyers on retainer. They can have more of an "official" press response...NOt that crap...

2) So...Again where is your proof they falsified anything...You can be skeptical but doesn't mean this is the first time skeptical data could be true....

3) I dont need to...he laid down the gauntlet first. I dont have to prove what he stated. Otherwsie what is the point of reading anything if I have to indepently prove it myself...You need to prove he is wrong before you can make the wild claims you make.

 

[Ackmed]

You are really not helping your cause to be a mod, Duvie.