Angry protesters descend on mosque

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Classy, the thing you miss in your idiocy on this one, is that yes, the people who are emotional over a loss can be less than rational in assigning blame.

That's not traditional bigotry - the learning to hate a group for irrational reasons.

Imagine that black student that was the first to enroll in 'Ol Miss later had a few members of the local KKK ambush and kill him.

Might his family have 'blamed whites', generalized the fault to 'white people', made generalizations about whites, said no more of their family is going to live with whites?

Of course they might have. (And they'd have a lot stronger case where support for segregation was a lot higher than Muslim support for Al Queda was.)

And people would see it for what it was, the emotion for losing their family member allowing an irrational view - blaming all white people as guilty - to affect them.

When we see people cheer the victims of a crime able to embrace the innocent people the criminals come from, it's cheering the victory of a more rational view.

There was a woman who with the best of the intent but mistakenly identified a black man as having been her rapist and he was in prison 15 years until he was exonerated and released. He had every reason to hate her for his loss at her fault, and the system, but people cheered him for not doing that, and their becoming close friends. Who could ask him to do that, but he did.

For most Americans, Muslims are 'those people', not 'us humans', and it's perfectly human for the irrational blame for all Muslims to happen for losing someone on 9/11.

That doesn't make it right.

Most of the opponents to the Mosque near ground zero did not lose a family member on 9/11. They have even less reason for their outrage to 'spill over'.

Ultimately, that misplaced 'outrage' is wrong, especially when it carries over to actions based on it of new discrimination.

The fact they 'feel' the hate isn't reason for the law to agree with their hate.

We have some sympathy and cut some slack for a family member who lashes out wrongly at a group. 'How sad, but let them be.'

Not so much for others, and less so for the law.

As I've explained, the hate is just what Al ueda was counting on as the reaction, as you play into their hands, because misguided hate will drive those targeted to them.

You don't understand bigotry, which isn't as surprising as it sounds. Being in a group that has been the victims of bigotry doesn't make you immune to be a bigot.

If anything, sometimes the victims of bigotry turn out to copy their oppressors if given the chance, it's what they've learned, not unlike how the molested become molesters.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Joining Good Day NY on Tuesday was Bruce Decell. Decell’s son-in-law, Mark Petrocelli, died in the attacks.

Also on the show, Charles Wolf who lost his wife, Katherine, on 9/11/01. He supports the plan to bring the Mosque and Islamic cultural center to lower manhattan. Wolf says, " There has already been a prayer space for years in that building. The only people who are against if are people who don't live in the neighborhood."

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/sept_11/9-11-victims-family-on-mosque-plan-20100803
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
It is clear to me you motherfvckers forgot that day. I remember that day clearly after hearing about the plane go down in PA and I was crying because I couldn't reach my wife on the phone who worked in Philly. The protest and the displeasure about the mosque ain't about fvcking religion or bigoted trumped up bullshit. That MOTHERFVCKING DAY WAS HELL. Plain and simple. People's lives were just destroyed and now its all of sudden to be forgotten and some how brushed aside. You can go to hell

You convinced me. Everyone who doesn't respond to 9/11 by losing their mind in vengeful rage demanding we kill every Muslim on the planet has forgotten 9/11.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
You convinced me. Everyone who doesn't respond to 9/11 by losing their mind in vengeful rage demanding we kill every Muslim on the planet has forgotten 9/11.

Its not about some damn racial analogy or killing muslims. Who the fvck are you to protest these people? You didn't lose anyone or anything there. What the fvck gives you and many others the right to make fun of and put down people who are against it? Many see it as sign or reminder. Doesn't make it right, but they damn sure don't deserve a bunch sorry asses making fun of them. Some of them never found their loved ones, some watched their loved ones jump out 20-30 story fvcking windows. Some got goodbye calls from loved ones on the plane before it crashed. And you make some rational ass reason they are just bigots. Maybe for you it never was, but for many it was just yesterday. Have some damn respect.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Its not about some damn racial analogy or killing muslims. Who the fvck are you to protest these people? You didn't lose anyone or anything there. What the fvck gives you and many others the right to make fun of and put down people who are against it? Many see it as sign or reminder. Doesn't make it right, but they damn sure don't deserve a bunch sorry asses making fun of them. Some of them never found their loved ones, some watched their loved ones jump out 20-30 story fvcking windows. Some got goodbye calls from loved ones on the plane before it crashed. And you make some rational ass reason they are just bigots. Maybe for you it never was, but for many it was just yesterday. Have some damn respect.

Oh, now it's clear. I didn't understand that people had losses on 9/11, and so of course any rage, however it's inflicted, is unquestionably right.

Any question of any wish they have for revenge is making fun of them and insulting them and not understanding that they had a loss.

Maybe if you post more pictures of the violence, it'll help people understand that bad things happened, since they don't yet know that. You hit the nail on the head there.

Or maybe I am the one who had shown not only them respect, but everyone who deserves respect (you are not on that list anymore, presumption lost).

It's explained to you over and over and over and over again that the response to a small group committing violence is wrong to target all Muslims, and yet you don't get it, you just keep arguing as if the people who say that don't know violence happened on 9/11 and don't care about the 9/11 victims.

No matter how many gruesome photos and statements of the losses the people had that day, it doesn't make new discrimination against innocent people wrong.

Yet all you can do is keep repeating 'but they had losses' over and over and over, as if that's the issue.

'Respect' is one thing, but the line stops short when they want to do something against innocent others.

I support the right of someone to open an office and use their free speech to say why Al Queda is a good group. Now, if THAT group wanted to open such an office at ground zero, I'd have some more sympathy for the feelings of the victims and the nation to say 'not there'. Meet the legitimate right of free speech by opening it elsewhere - they actually WERE the perpetrators. But when they want to tell Muslims 'not there', that's not about Muslims, it's about their erroneously blaming all Muslims, and the answer is 'no'.

If the family of a woman who was incredibly tortured raped and murdered by a man wanted to punish the criminal's sister to make him suffer, the answer is no.

And the answer of no is not a lack of respect for them, but there are limits on how they act out of their feelings.
 
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Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Its not about some damn racial analogy or killing muslims. Who the fvck are you to protest these people? You didn't lose anyone or anything there. What the fvck gives you and many others the right to make fun of and put down people who are against it? Many see it as sign or reminder. Doesn't make it right, but they damn sure don't deserve a bunch sorry asses making fun of them. Some of them never found their loved ones, some watched their loved ones jump out 20-30 story fvcking windows. Some got goodbye calls from loved ones on the plane before it crashed. And you make some rational ass reason they are just bigots. Maybe for you it never was, but for many it was just yesterday. Have some damn respect.

Who are you to have any say in this then? Who is making fun and putting people down?
Why can't you respect the people who lost loved ones and want the mosque built?
Your raving and losing all respectability
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
What would Jesus do?
I think he'd forgive.
Which isn't the point since this subject has nothing
to do with 9/11 anyway.
9/11 was 9/11 pulled off by a small group of nut cases.
They could just as well been a group of Catholics,
Jewish or atheist, with a gripe against Americans.
This country has become such haters and bigots.
You would have thought the 9/11 terrorist flew a mosque into the WTC.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,629
10,041
146
I am not debating anymore, it's pointless. It's just now funny watching people that would so rabidly attack ANY melding of Christianity and government come out of the woodwork to rabidly defend the Muslims right to the same, or worse.

Your assertion is either incredibly dimwitted or intentionally dishonest.

There is ZERO "melding" of Islam and government in allowing them to build a Mosque. There is only the continued adherence to the First Amendment to our constituion, which was designed by our founding fathers to keep government OUT of the business of melding with ANY one religion, by giving equal civil rights to all.

Here, re-read it, please:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
THIS is why American Muslims who are and were in no way connected to 9/11 have the RIGHT to erect a house of worship in Manhattan.

It is entirely un-American of you to insist otherwise.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
But you put no energy whatsoever into condemning the hateful bigoted reactions.

Why? Your passive acceptance of ignorant anti-Islam bigotry ruling the day is revealing.

Instead, you devote your eloquence, paragraph after learned paragraph in post after post, parsing Christianity as "not really" the religion of hate while remaining silent on those who would tar Islam with that same ugly bigoted brush.

Where you put your energies is a window into your true feelings.

You are fooling no one but yourself about this.


Whelp, I'm not feeling eloquent, but I was heading towards Canada before I posted so time's an issue. Besides you seem to have picked up on the other half of those who won't get it.

I have limited idiot time today, but yeah, I've said that they have a right to build it, but it's pretty tacky considering all that New Yorkers went through.

It's funny when people justify things by picking on another group. "Johnny hit Ben so it's OK if I do it too" mentality didn't fly with my kids so adults playing the game is dumb as a mud fence.

On the other hand the nice thing about our country is the freedom to make a fool of yourself, and heaven knows there's a bunch of that from all sides, so you have to pick and choose because idiots abound. That doesn't make them terrorists or terrorists sympathizers in any way. Just dumb schmucks.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
I'll dare these bigoted motherfrackers to protest a mosque. We didn't find their loved ones, but hell who cares, they got paid for it.

Pretty obvious when you are too stupid to have rational argument when you resort to this.
There isn't lot different between you and the people you protest.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
It's all about submission. Many people aren't comfortable with changing demographics in this country. Having a minority group submit to appease the majority is what they seek. It gives them some feeling of control when they feel as they are losing power. Hopefully the Muslim group here will remain strong. They can gain inspiration from the Civil Rights movement with African-Americans refusing to submit, busting through segregated schools, etc.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
It's all about submission. Many people aren't comfortable with changing demographics in this country. Having a minority group submit to appease the majority is what they seek. It gives them some feeling of control when they feel as they are losing power. Hopefully the Muslim group here will remain strong. They can gain inspiration from the Civil Rights movement with African-Americans refusing to submit, busting through segregated schools, etc.

I try not to judge people, but I am far from perfect.
This isn't the first time one of your posts has made me step back and rethink how I've got you pegged.
:thumbsup: COW
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
It is clear to me you motherfvckers forgot that day. I remember that day clearly after hearing about the plane go down in PA and I was crying because I couldn't reach my wife on the phone who worked in Philly. The protest and the displeasure about the mosque ain't about fvcking religion or bigoted trumped up bullshit. That MOTHERFVCKING DAY WAS HELL. Plain and simple. People's lives were just destroyed and now its all of sudden to be forgotten and some how brushed aside. You can go to hell

/facepalm

You just don't get it, dude.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
It's all about submission. Many people aren't comfortable with changing demographics in this country. Having a minority group submit to appease the majority is what they seek. It gives them some feeling of control when they feel as they are losing power. Hopefully the Muslim group here will remain strong. They can gain inspiration from the Civil Rights movement with African-Americans refusing to submit, busting through segregated schools, etc.

So true... IMO there are far too many people who think the USA is 'their' country. Anything outside their way of life is unacceptable and must be suppressed and condemned. The irony would be humorous if it wasn't so damned sad. :\
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Your assertion is either incredibly dimwitted or intentionally dishonest.

There is ZERO "melding" of Islam and government in allowing them to build a Mosque. There is only the continued adherence to the First Amendment to our constituion, which was designed by our founding fathers to keep government OUT of the business of melding with ANY one religion, by giving equal civil rights to all.

Here, re-read it, please:

THIS is why American Muslims who are and were in no way connected to 9/11 have the RIGHT to erect a house of worship in Manhattan.

It is entirely un-American of you to insist otherwise.

Enjoy your dhimmitude. Insha'Allah
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
Can anybody please explain to me in a rational way, facts included, how it can be that these American Muslims somehow share the guilt of of the 911 attackers?

If you cannot show the guilt, you should have no ill feelings about the mosque.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Can anybody please explain to me in a rational way, facts included, how it can be that these American Muslims somehow share the guilt of of the 911 attackers?

If you cannot show the guilt, you should have no ill feelings about the mosque.

Whether right, or wrong, people believe that this Imam building this mosque, in this location is a slap in the face to the victims of 9/11. You can dispute it with "freedom of religion", which coming from some here is a fucking joke, or that Muslims hate terrorist too, or that the Imam isn't really a believer in bringing Sharia Law to America, whatever. You can try to dilute it as much as you want, but that fact is that the attacks were carried out in the name of Islam, by Muslim extremist, against the West whether radical, or not isn't even a concept some people can understand.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
xj0hnx

So, how stupid do people have to be that they cannot figure out that their fellow Americans who happen to be Muslims share no guilt for the attack? Opposition to the mosque is a false condemnation of a group of their countrymen.

By now you'd think history would have taught us just how awful such things are. Have all of these people forgotten that we locked up large numbers of American citizens after Dec. 7? That was nothing short of a crime against humanity. We ended up getting something of a pass from the world because we plead fear, stupidity, racism, shame and sorrow beyond measure, and promised never to act like that again.

Now we see people demanding that all people of a particular religion share the guilt of a few fringe wackjobs. It's a "Stay away! Your people did this! Your mere presence is an affront to normal people." Yup! That's as American as apple pie.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
xj0hnx

So, how stupid do people have to be that they cannot figure out that their fellow Americans who happen to be Muslims share no guilt for the attack? Opposition to the mosque is a false condemnation of a group of their countrymen.

Some see it as a symbol of Muslims conquest, some as an open attack on the sensibilities of those that lost friends, and family, why they object isn't as big an issue as why do they have to build it there? There are plenty of people that do not associate all Muslims, or Islam with terrorism that object to the mosque.
 
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