Anitmatter

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joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
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<< besides the making and the storing of this stuff, how would the "engine" of the ship control and/or direct this highly energetic reaction. like jet engines on fighter planes, the opening becomes wide or narrow to allow the focus of thrust (this is probabily very simple and/or explanation), but how would the ship do that? >>


My take is that the engine will consist of (if this ever becomes possible) a mini-particle accelerator, which causes matter-antimatter collisions.

While matter and antimatter can be controlled and stored by altering the magnetic field, I have no idea how they can control the direction of the ship from the energy released.
 

Agent004

Senior member
Mar 22, 2001
492
0
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I wonder can the human body with stand those kind of speed imposed by Anti matter propulsion system

Obviously not.
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
737
0
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<< Water can help with gamma radiation can it not? Something like 8" of water will stop 80% of gamma radiation if I remember correctly. ( don't quote me on that, I remember it from a Scientific Amerian ) >>



I just wanted to be sure that no one here is thinking of using a thick wet suit for protection from gamma radiation. Water doesn't do the trick. Water is a great neutron moderator, but a terrible shielding material for gammas. For gammas you need high density, high p-number materials like Pb.

Maybe I'm jaded from so many decades as a physicist, but I thought the whole anti-matter thing was old news to the general public when I was in high school. And, let me tell you, that was a long time ago. The physics of this are very well-known and very well-documented in ordinary physics texts. The engineering, well the engineering is another story altogether. Before boarding any vehicles that utilize anti-matter propulsion systems I'm going to wait for those Jockey magnetic repulsion shorts to be perfected.



- Collin
 

ShawnTech

Banned
Jan 16, 2002
57
0
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to control the direction of the ship, the reaction would have to be outside the ship and probably a similar design to modern rocket cones. although the amount of energy released would probably break the cone and crush the ship unless you released the antimatter like 1 picogram at a time or something
 

ShawnTech

Banned
Jan 16, 2002
57
0
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<< For gammas you need high density, high p-number materials like Pb. >>


didn't one of the guys before say that gammas went right through thick lead plating?
 

SsZERO

Banned
Sep 3, 2001
369
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<< I think you're (SsZero) confused a bit about the nature of the reaction. The reason that a fusion reaction needs energy to get going is because actually fusing the nuclei of two atoms together requires an enormous force to push them together against the electromagnetic force, since they have to pushed very close for the strong force to become the dominant one. Once in this state, it is a lower energy state, so therefore overall energy is released. This energy can be used to force two more nuclei together and continue the reaction - effectively the very large energy barrier stops the reaction happening at room temperature. >>



Confused? Not at all. To initiate an matter-antimatter reaction you still need to expend a large amount of energy, unless you opt to store antimatter in some form. Since I would choose to generate antimatter right before its use, the initial reaction would need to be started the only way we know how -- slamming particles into the 'fuel' material at high velocity. Fusion happens at high heat, where it is so hot that when the molecules collide with each other they fuse rather than bounce. Unless room temperature is the same temp as the sun, it's not going to happen without a lot of startup energy unless we were to use cold fusion.



<< With anti-matter / matter I don't think there is such a large energy barrier. Because an antimatter particle has the opposite electric charge, the two particles attract rather than having to be forced together. >>



That is correct.



<<
However, one thing to note is that producing an anti-matter particle, currently, is achieved by giving a lot of energy (kinetic) to a particle and colliding it with others. The antimatter (and matter) particles are created out of the pure energy. Then the matter-antimatter collision produces this same amount of energy.
>>



Looks like we'd have to develop a more efficient way of creating antimatter. I like the idea of harnessing a black hole and using it as the soure of power. OF course, if something happens to the containment unit, then the black hole would pretty much wipe out anything around it.



<< As a power source onboard a ship, antimatter doesn't make much sense, since as much energy is needed for the creation as is released in the collision. With fusion for example, the products of the reaction are more stable (lower energy) than the reactants, so overall energy is released. This isn't true of an antimatter reaction. However, due to the 100% mass-energy conversion, a lot of energy can be stored in a compact space. For instance, if 500g of antimatter was produced, according to E=mc2 then 9*10^16 joules of energy from the conversion of 1kg of mass was converted to energy. >>



I don't think anyone knows enough about antimatter to say whether or not it would make much sense to use it as a power source for a spacecraft, or for anything else. The limitation you are presenting, lack of efficiency, is not a flaw of the matter-antimatter reaction. It is a flaw of our method of generating antimatter...which leads back to people not having a sufficient understanding of antimatter. Obviously, if we were going to use antimatter on a ship, we'd do so knowing more about it than we do now.



<<
In line with conversation of momentum, to give the ship momentum, you would need to throw stuff out of the back of the ship. This is what rocket engines do - expansion of gas gives a momentum to exhaust fumes in one direction and therefore the ship gains momentum in the opposite direction. If you could somehow use the energy to fire particles out of the ship at near light speed then the ship would gain momentum in the opposite direction.
>>



There was an interesting idea regarding electromagnets as propulsion. These magnets would be super-cooled and would also be super-conducting. A high voltage, high current pulse would be sent through the magnets at a certain frequency. Since electromagnets at this temperature give of a vibration when they first start up, the idea is to use this vibration to gain momentum. It seems to be similar to what UFOs use.

-= SsZERO =-
 

ShawnTech

Banned
Jan 16, 2002
57
0
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if you know what a UFO uses then there's not much U left

it's impossible to contain a black hole. if light can't escape, what chance do you have? you can't buid around it or over it or whatever

what would happen at the end of the black hole though? with gravity so strong what would become of all that is sucked in? is a black hole's gravity strong enough to break the strong nuclear force holding electrons away from the center of the atom?
 
Jan 15, 2002
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About black holes, it isn't necessarily true that you can't contain them. When you're thinking of the black hole, you're thinking of a conventional one with a mass of many times our sun, with a strong gravitational field. It's actually possible to create a mini black hole, which has a tiny event horizon of around the size of a proton.

A black hole of this variety would have around the mass of an asteroid and hence wouldn't drag everything into it. I'm not sure how it would be kept in place relative to a space ship though. However, I'm pretty sure that black holes retain certain information about the particles that go into them such as angular momentum, mass, and electric charge. If we were to build a black hole, potentially using a variety of particles to begin with, then using a lot of protons to build up a net charge - you couldn't start out with just protons because of the electric charge repulsion, but once you'd got a tiny black hole you might be able to add protons due to the gravitational force over a very small distance. Anyway, a heavily charged black hole might be held in place using an electromagnetic field, and used then as a power source. Shamelessly looked up in "Black Holes, Baby Universes and other essays" by Stephen Hawking, such a black hole would release 6000 megawatts of energy (approximately 6 large nuclear power stations worth) and would have a lifespan of a few billion years.

Now that is one hell of a more promising power supply. Put mass in, get energy out.

PS I wasn't pointing out a lack in efficiency in creating anti-matter, I was pointing out a lack of gain from the process. With perfect efficiency, unless you found a way to spontaneously create anti matter from matter (which would violate conservation laws about baryon number I believe) you would be doing a perfect energy-mass conversion to produce antimatter from energy, then the matter-antimatter collision would be a perfect mass-energy conversion, with exactly the same output energy as was input. The problem is that the balance ends up the same, whereas with fusion, the net result is a more stable and lower energy product and therefore a net release of energy.

Stephen Hawking
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
737
0
0


<<

<< For gammas you need high density, high p-number materials like Pb. >>


didn't one of the guys before say that gammas went right through thick lead plating?
>>



Yes, I think someone said that. In relative terms, the statement was misleading. A percentage of gammas will go through any material, but lead is one of the best shields against gamma radiation. The thickness of a shielding material which will attenuate gamma flux (of a given energy) to one half of its initial value is called a half-thickness. At any given gamma energy level the half-thickness for lead is MUCH smaller than the half-thickness for water. Gamma rays are photons. They don't interact significantly (from the standpoint of shielding considerations) with nuclei, but they do interact significantly with electrons. Therefore, materials with high p-numbers (lots of protons means lots of electrons, unless you're talking about plasmas) tend to be much better at attenuating gamma radiation than materials with lower P-numbers. The constituents of water are, of course, hydrogen (P-number = 1) and oxygen (P-number = 8). Lead has a P-number of 82. Lots of electrons hanging around that sucker, so lots of chances for energy absorbing interactions between gammas passing through the neighborhood. That's what you want in shielding, lots of interactions of whatever it is that you're trying to attenuate with the constituents of the shielding material. And, of course, you then have to worry about scatter and secondary radiation emissions from those interactions. You do get lower energy gammas being scattered from the shielding material, and the secondary emissions from gamma interactions with shielding materials is beta radiation, which is extremely easy to stop. Typing paper does nicely.

Water is good at slowing neutrons, a big consideration in nuclear power plants. Various plastics like polypropylene work well for moderating (slowing down) neutrons, too. Graphite is also good at moderating neutrons, but, as our friends at Chernobyl can attest, graphite is also good at burning.

Magnetic bottles or shields can, conceivably, provide excellent protection from charged particle radiation, but they don't do anything to impede non-charged particles like neutrons, and they likewise do nothing to protect you from photons.

- Collin
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
737
0
0
Hmmm. I should probably read the entire thread carefully before saying anything about its general trend, but I thought I would point out that the creation of anti-matter by current methods is extraordinarily inefficient. Yes, the matter - antimatter reaction between, say, an electron and a positron does result in total conversion of their masses into energy. (The laws of conservation are not violated. The gamma ray output is two high energy gammas emitted in opposite directions.) But process being talked about here requires huge energy expenditure to produce tiny quantities of anti-matter. Complete conversion of the resultant anti-matter and the concomittant matter to energy would yield a miniscule fraction of the energy required to produce the anti-matter.

<silly analogy mode>

Even if the energy-to-matter (actually anti-matter) conversion were highly efficient, it still would be silly to produce the anti-matter on the vehicle. If you already had the energy to do the job of producing the anti-matter, why on earth (or in space) would you use it for that purpose with all of the risks involved instead of just applying the energy directly to the work at hand, namely moving the vehicle? If you had a powerful electric fan and generator mounted on your sailboat and wanted to power the boat with it, would you point the fan at the sail, or would you point the fan astern so that you could simply get some propulsion from it? Or would you just hook the gasoline motor that powers the generator to a prop and be done with it?

</silly analogy mode>



- Collin
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<< Anyway, a heavily charged black hole might be held in place using an electromagnetic field, and used then as a power source. Shamelessly looked up in "Black Holes, Baby Universes and other essays" by Stephen Hawking, such a black hole would release 6000 megawatts of energy (approximately 6 large nuclear power stations worth) and would have a lifespan of a few billion years. >>

Don't (some) Romulan ships use singularities (BH's) as a powersource?

Yes, I'm a Trekkie, bite me

BTW, check out Physicsforums.com for more information on BH's =)
 

SsZERO

Banned
Sep 3, 2001
369
0
0
A few points:

- If the production of antimatter was highly efficient, then the energy needed to create it would be significantly less than the energy produced from the matter anti-matter reaction. In essence, a properly designed and built antimatter reactor would output more SUSTAINED power than the secondary power supply used to start it could. i.e. the fusion reactor to start can peak at 100 megawatts, but normally operates around 75-100 megawatts. The antimatter reactor startup power requirement maybe 100 megawatts, but once initialized, it will produce an output of 400 megawatts.

Think of it as starting a car. The battery in a car provides high current and the coil steps up the voltage to ~15K volts, enough power to turn over the engine and cause the sparkplugs to spark, but only for a few seconds. Afterwards, the engine generates its own electricity by turning the alternator, and the rest of the power goes to the wheels. By your logic, you'd say the battery has enough energy to move the car, so why not just use the battery. Simple answer -- the battery cannot sustain its power output.

- The best way to make use of antimatter is to design a cascade generator. To elaborate, it would require a surge of energy to get going, but afterwards it would produce enough energy to sustain the reaction as well as have energy left over for other power sources...of course, we are assuming high efficiency here...95% or better.

- Electrical systems' efficiency is inversely proportional to their operating temperature. Combustion engines produce more power for any given size than its electrical counterpart. This is why most boats use diesel engines, which can operate even when submerged in water, as long as there is a snorkel to supply air for the intake (Gasoline engines cannot due to the high voltage needed for spark plug ignition). The diesel engine drives the propeller and a generator, or sometimes there is a separate engine for a generator. But to answer your question, I'd have the combustion engine directly drive the propeller(s).

-= SsZERO =-



<< <silly analogy mode>

Even if the energy-to-matter (actually anti-matter) conversion were highly efficient, it still would be silly to produce the anti-matter on the vehicle. If you already had the energy to do the job of producing the anti-matter, why on earth (or in space) would you use it for that purpose with all of the risks involved instead of just applying the energy directly to the work at hand, namely moving the vehicle? If you had a powerful electric fan and generator mounted on your sailboat and wanted to power the boat with it, would you point the fan at the sail, or would you point the fan astern so that you could simply get some propulsion from it? Or would you just hook the gasoline motor that powers the generator to a prop and be done with it?

</silly analogy mode>



- Collin
>>

 

SsZERO

Banned
Sep 3, 2001
369
0
0
YEs, the romulans use singularities on their ships.

-= SsZERO =-



<<

<< Anyway, a heavily charged black hole might be held in place using an electromagnetic field, and used then as a power source. Shamelessly looked up in "Black Holes, Baby Universes and other essays" by Stephen Hawking, such a black hole would release 6000 megawatts of energy (approximately 6 large nuclear power stations worth) and would have a lifespan of a few billion years. >>

Don't (some) Romulan ships use singularities (BH's) as a powersource?

Yes, I'm a Trekkie, bite me

BTW, check out Physicsforums.com for more information on BH's =)
>>

 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
737
0
0


<< Collin is smart >>



Collin is not smart. Collin simply had no life. Collin was one of those twits who actually listened intently in Physics class -- and didn't have a date until after high school. Well, not one that counted anyway.

- Collin
 

MustPost

Golden Member
May 30, 2001
1,923
0
0
<<Am I the only one who finds those two lines put together quite funny? >>

I was just thinking popular science is pretty mainstream.
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
737
0
0


<< - If the production of antimatter was highly efficient, then the energy needed to create it would be significantly less than the energy produced from the matter anti-matter reaction. In essence, a properly designed and built antimatter reactor would output more SUSTAINED power than the secondary power supply used to start it could. i.e. the fusion reactor to start can peak at 100 megawatts, but normally operates around 75-100 megawatts. The antimatter reactor startup power requirement maybe 100 megawatts, but once initialized, it will produce an output of 400 megawatts.

Think of it as starting a car. The battery in a car provides high current and the coil steps up the voltage to ~15K volts, enough power to turn over the engine and cause the sparkplugs to spark, but only for a few seconds. Afterwards, the engine generates its own electricity by turning the alternator, and the rest of the power goes to the wheels. By your logic, you'd say the battery has enough energy to move the car, so why not just use the battery. Simple answer -- the battery cannot sustain its power output.
>>



Well, it doesn't work out that way. There are failures in the analogy. First of all, it takes exactly as much energy to produce matter as you get from its annihilation. Granted that you are only producing the anti-matter, so you only need to produce half of the matter to be used in the reaction process. That means that your break-even point for sustaining the reaction is 50% efficiency. If you were to examine the geometry considerations in arranging for the creation of the anti-matter you would find that the efficiency for the production process is limited theoretically to far less than 1%.

A car's engine produces enough energy to recharge the battery and power the car because it is able to derive that energy from the combustion of materials from an external source. If you had to use the battery not only to crank the engine over and provide the ignition spark but also to produce the gasoline (or even half of the gasoline) then you'd never get the machine on the road. If it weren't for energy stored in the form of fossil fuels, or at least the ability to get at some source of stored energy like alcohol produced from biomass, then we'd have no internal combustion systems. So far, we haven't found a way to "mine" anti-matter.

You can never even break even in this game. If you could break even in the sense of being able, within a single self-contained system, to produce everything you needed to power your vehicle, then you would have succeeded in producing the perpetual motion machine. In order to get the energy we need to accomplish anything, we are dependent upon the "gift of fire" from the gods or from Mother Nature or from whomever or whatever is responsible. There are no free rides. It's just that some rides look as though they're free from a particular standpoint -- until you look more closely.

I like the simplest ideas because I find them the most elegant. Light sails could be very effective in certain space travel applications, and a number of very interesting variations on the theme have been proposed. Besides, a light sail failure doesn't convert your interplanetary "wheels" into a ball of incandescent gas. Urp!

- Collin
 
Jan 15, 2002
71
0
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OK, one last try at an explanation...

If you were to produce antimatter on a ship, what form would a cascade reaction take? There is no reason for anti matter to just start appearing under any conditions. Matter can't just turn into antimatter, which means a number of things

1) The anti matter must be produced from energy
2) The energy cost in creating anti matter is in line with E=mc2
3) The energy released in it's destruction is in line with E=mc2

For 1, there are two options. Firstly, virtual particle/antiparticle pairs may (in fact are very often) be created by fluctuations due to uncertainty. However, the uncertainty principle means that due to the energy required to create these particles, a strict time limit is imposed on them before they must collide and 'pay back' the energy deficit they borrow from the uncertainty principle. Secondly energy may actually be put in (2) to create the matter-anti matter pairs.

The antimatter particle, if it could be stored correctly, in a perfectly efficient system would contain, in mass the exact amount of energy put in to create it. Later, stored anti particles can collide with matter particles to release the energy stored in their mass. In the car analogy, you need to light the fuel to begin a reaction in which a flammable fuel is oxidised to produce lower energy products, and the energy contained by the reactants is considerably higher than the energy contained in the products. That is why the reaction gives out energy.

Assuming state A is having n joules of energy, and state B is having n joules of energy stored as a mass:
Creation of antimatter is a change from state A to B, the collision is a change from B to A.
Nowhere in this process is energy gained. It's just a conversion. Imagine as an analogy, trying to convert money from dollars to pounds and back again (assuming a fixed exchange rate and no commission). You can swap the money between currencies as much as you like and you won't suddenly start gaining money from nothing. The two descriptions are just describing the same underlying value, switching how you represent this value does not increase the underlying value.
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
737
0
0
I just got around to reading the CNN article linked in the beginning message of the thread. Wow, I guess that's the only way NASA scientists can get their 15 minutes of fame. That article is really long on speculation and really short on facts.

Allow me to point out that some of the "anti-matter" applications in medical imaging and cancer therapy are already relatively commonplace -- or at least as commonplace as equipment this expensive is likely to get in the current political / socio-economic climate. The article makes them sound like a thing of the future. I was involved in the development of some of this science. One of the applications (imaging side) is called P.E.T. (positron emission tomography). The anti-matter is produced indirectly by producing positron emitters in an accelerator, often on-site with the imaging equipment because of the very short half-lives of the materials produced. No magnetic bottles, if you please. Just a chemical in solution. The positron emitters are usually employed by infusing them into a patients circulatory system. Typically the imaging agent collects in the target area because of cellular or organ function (filtration or secretion or metabolism rather than simply as a matter of circulatory supply). The positrons undergo mutual annihilation with electrons, and the resulting annihilation emissions are quite easy to "see" since they are quite energetic (not attenuated within patient tissues) and are 180 degrees coincident (two gammas emitted in opposite directions simultaneously -- that being why the detection systems are torroidal scintillation detectors). I helped a hospital in Philadelphia do site preparation design of a commercial installation of such equipment over a decade-and-a-half ago, and that was most definitely not the first of its type in the country.

- Collin
 

SsZERO

Banned
Sep 3, 2001
369
0
0


<< Well, it doesn't work out that way. There are failures in the analogy. First of all, it takes exactly as much energy to produce matter as you get from its annihilation. Granted that you are only producing the anti-matter, so you only need to produce half of the matter to be used in the reaction process. That means that your break-even point for sustaining the reaction is 50% efficiency. If you were to examine the geometry considerations in arranging for the creation of the anti-matter you would find that the efficiency for the production process is limited theoretically to far less than 1%. >>



To produce antimatter is inefficient, but to convert matter to antimatter would be more efficient. I say that matter is a state of energy, like ice is a state of water. And energy is not any kind of particle, it is just energy, one of 3 dimensional components that make up our universe. The other 2 components are space and time. Anyway, the properties of energy are determined by its velocity within space. There are infinite possibilities just as there are infinite velocities. In its purest form, energy travels at a constant velocity in the universe, a universal velocity. Slowing it down changes its state to what we perceive as particles, even slower and we get matter particles. Reversing its direction gives it opposite properties, and if the reversed energy does not attain the universal velocity, it will become a particle of matter.

With that said, you can see why they produce antimatter the way they do now, and why it works. The particles are collided at "near light" speeds, but not fast enough to produce "anti-energy" you just get anti-matter. The idea behind creating "true" antimatter is to take something like a rock, and reverse its universal velocity. The rock would still look like a rock and feel like a rock (if you were to touch it), but it would actually be a rock comprised of "antimatter". For better consistency, crystals would be a better candidate for antimatter conversion, due to their uniform lattice structure.



<< A car's engine produces enough energy to recharge the battery and power the car because it is able to derive that energy from the combustion of materials from an external source. If you had to use the battery not only to crank the engine over and provide the ignition spark but also to produce the gasoline (or even half of the gasoline) then you'd never get the machine on the road. If it weren't for energy stored in the form of fossil fuels, or at least the ability to get at some source of stored energy like alcohol produced from biomass, then we'd have no internal combustion systems. So far, we haven't found a way to "mine" anti-matter. >>



Yes...which is why we need to convert the matter we have into antimatter, a process that may now be easier said than done, but possible and not as complicated as it sounds. Then to fit the analogy, the converted matter, now antimatter, would be the fuel. Initiating and controlling the reaction would be as easy as directing a beam of matter at the antimatter.



<< You can never even break even in this game. If you could break even in the sense of being able, within a single self-contained system, to produce everything you needed to power your vehicle, then you would have succeeded in producing the perpetual motion machine. In order to get the energy we need to accomplish anything, we are dependent upon the "gift of fire" from the gods or from Mother Nature or from whomever or whatever is responsible. There are no free rides. It's just that some rides look as though they're free from a particular standpoint -- until you look more closely. >>



Take a short ramp, about 3-4 inches long, and put a semi powerful magnet at the top, then make a hole in front of the magnet. Next, make a curved ramp which is on a lesser incline than the first ramp. Put one end of the curved ramp under the hole and the other end back to the beginning of the longer ramp. Now take a steel BB, maybe .5" in diameter, and place it on the straight ramp. If you construct this correctly, the magnet will pull the BB up the ramp, then the BB will fall through the hole because the magnet cannot support the weight of the BB. The BB then rolls back to the starting point and the process repeats itself. And there you have it, perpetual motion. I've had one of these things going non stop for 3+ years and it's still going...the wood does show some wear, but that's it.



<< I like the simplest ideas because I find them the most elegant. Light sails could be very effective in certain space travel applications, and a number of very interesting variations on the theme have been proposed. Besides, a light sail failure doesn't convert your interplanetary "wheels" into a ball of incandescent gas. Urp! >>



I wouldn't be caught dead on a sail ship in space! I'd like a ship with some balls, and the ability to attack/defend itself from whatever may be there if necessary. It'd be kinda fun to be a space pirate. I'd probably opt for a contained black hole as my powersource...maybe 2 or 3 black holes. One of them would be there solely to power a huge cannon.

-= SsZERO =-
 

c0rv1d43

Senior member
Oct 1, 2001
737
0
0
Steel BBs and inclined planes, ships with balls, cannon. Uh, okay -- may the force be with you.



As for me, I want to be a sailor.

- Collin
 

Ju1cyJ

Member
Nov 10, 2001
99
0
0


<<

<< You can never even break even in this game. If you could break even in the sense of being able, within a single self-contained system, to produce everything you needed to power your vehicle, then you would have succeeded in producing the perpetual motion machine. In order to get the energy we need to accomplish anything, we are dependent upon the "gift of fire" from the gods or from Mother Nature or from whomever or whatever is responsible. There are no free rides. It's just that some rides look as though they're free from a particular standpoint -- until you look more closely. >>



Take a short ramp, about 3-4 inches long, and put a semi powerful magnet at the top, then make a hole in front of the magnet. Next, make a curved ramp which is on a lesser incline than the first ramp. Put one end of the curved ramp under the hole and the other end back to the beginning of the longer ramp. Now take a steel BB, maybe .5" in diameter, and place it on the straight ramp. If you construct this correctly, the magnet will pull the BB up the ramp, then the BB will fall through the hole because the magnet cannot support the weight of the BB. The BB then rolls back to the starting point and the process repeats itself. And there you have it, perpetual motion. I've had one of these things going non stop for 3+ years and it's still going...the wood does show some wear, but that's it.
>>



Sorry man, thats not perpetual motion. You know that magnet that makes it all work? Well when it pulls on the BB it heats up, thus using energy (correct me if I am wrong, although I do know for a fact magnets give off heat while doing work).
 

SsZERO

Banned
Sep 3, 2001
369
0
0
Hey, it'd be naive to think that any other life that may exist in our universe would be friendly toward us. Now I'm not saying that they'd all be hostile either...just that I'd rather be able to wipe them out with a single blast if they decide that they'd rather fight than exchange tofu recipes.

But that is getting a little too far off topic...back to the antimatter at hand. (get it?)

-= SsZERO =-



<< Steel BBs and inclined planes, ships with balls, cannon. Uh, okay -- may the force be with you.



As for me, I want to be a sailor.

- Collin
>>

 

SsZERO

Banned
Sep 3, 2001
369
0
0
A system that can reset itself and perform its cycle(s) without the need for manual intervention is perpetual. Note that I did not say anything about energy, power or heat. The example I provided is perpetual motion in a very simple form.

-= SsZERO =-



<< Sorry man, thats not perpetual motion. You know that magnet that makes it all work? Well when it pulls on the BB it heats up, thus using energy (correct me if I am wrong, although I do know for a fact magnets give off heat while doing work). >>

 
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