Explain to me, how having millions of non-payers insured, is cheaper then having a few use the ER?
Only in lib stupid make up whatever math you want world does that compute.
People that don't "want" health insurance are still going to go to the ER, the most expensive care on the planet, when they need it. YOU will be paying for it, just like you always had. Do you prefer that?
You HAVE to pay for trillions upon trillions upon trillions in foreign occupations and bases in every country of the world... HEAVEN FORBID HEALTHCARE for your own people!
Absurd. What you're saying is that the less people want something, in this case "money", the more they'll pay to get it. Graph that for me, OK?
Explain to me, how having millions of non-payers insured, is cheaper then having a few use the ER?
Only in lib stupid make up whatever math you want world does that compute.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/02/us-health-reform-er-idUSTRE7514VX20110602Contrary to expectations that easier access to primary care would reduce ER use, the total number of ER visits at 11 hospitals increased slightly after reform was implemented -- a pattern similar to that seen in other states.
More importantly the idea that the number of ER visits will decrease is a myth.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/02/us-health-reform-er-idUSTRE7514VX20110602
You recognize nothing, not even bullshit when you continuously vomit it forth. You get nothing, beyond a blind foaming hatred any time anyone threatens the expansion of your free ride.I recognize propaganda when I see it, and you're slinging it all over the place. You admitted that the $1000 in question isn't really out of pocket, as you claimed, but rather potential expense based on increased deductible. Those are not the same thing, but you asserted that they are in your first sentence in the OP. Fundamentally dishonest.
The whole business about the boat & going back to school is just a crass plea for sympathy, because you're oh so oppressed & depressed about the idea that you might have to shell out an extra $1000 for healthcare. Might. Maybe. You'll find out, right? But not before going on w/ some great tale of woe about the Evil Obama! complete with predictions of doom for us all.
I get it. You're just throwing out chunks of red meat to keep the usual ravers emotionally engaged, intellectually crippled. It works, but only on the gullible, the faithful, the people who are just dying to have their own misperceptions validated.
Um, my wife IS a woman, so we're already paying for "women's health". Maternity coverage and "free" birth control - we're beyond that age. Viagra - wasn't using it before, don't need it now. Mental health - nope, not a proggie, I have no emotional scars or daddy issues or raging jealousy to work through. There is absolutely nothing I'm receiving for my extra $1,000 OR the inflated premiums I'll now have to pay.I LOVE the maternity talking point! Paying for viagra and men's health= good. Women's health? I'm NOT A WOMAN!
Until Obamacare, I had not realized that to proggies, "reform healthcare" meant "demolish healthcare." But thanks for playing "Foamy raging proggie".You do realize that the Republicans have never once, in 100 years, tried to reform healthcare(giving extra benefits to their base, through expanding medicare does not count), right? They had 12 straight years of dual house control and CRICKETS!
They have only EVER opposed it. They opposed it under Clinton, so 15 years later the Democrats went ahead and used the Republicans' OWN plan, which the Republicans wouldn't even sit down to discuss. They literally have zero interest in healthcare. War? Sure! Military expansion and occupations, oil company/big business welfare, deregulation of environmental protections that let to the BP oil spill? Absolutely! Healthcare? Never.
So, the Democrats STARTED with the Republican plan, and had to water it down further. Yet, you want to blame Democrats? Half of Congress was too busy throwing a fit and yelling about death panels rather than contributing... yet, you blame the ones that TRIED and used the OPPOSITION'S own plan, just so SOMETHING could get through!?
Wow. That is twisted.
Not surprising at all to see the America hating cheerleaders out in full force still. Your defective conservative brains NEED treatment. We have afforded it for you. Go use it, STAT.
If you believe that the America haters are those who don't want to fundamentally transform in into something else, then I suggest YOU seek treatment. Generally speaking people conserve what they love and destroy what they hate. Obama and the Democrats just burned American health care for many Americans, and from what I've seen in over half a century it isn't a Phoenix that rises from ashes, it's just acrid smoke.Not surprising at all to see the America hating cheerleaders out in full force still. Your defective conservative brains NEED treatment. We have afforded it for you. Go use it, STAT.
You are one here that needs to have your brain fixed the most. I have never seen such a cry baby victim as I have you. You are worse than the liberals you cry about. You are supposed to be a grown man, remember? You don't know a GD thing about hospitals or medicine nor do I believe your bullshit about having to wait 6 weeks to see a doctor. You are just one of the more full of shit martyrs here, that's all. GTFU already. Time to put your stupidity in the plonk file where it belongs.
great rebuttal to all the informed opinions and facts posted!
Way to be a dem sheeple
still waiting for you to post any kind of an informed opinion, or fact.
haha, I guess that is a fact.
Maybe. I suspect though that the doctors I now have will become the province of those employed by government and large corporations, whose health care plans have the horsepower to negotiate agreements at reasonable rates, whereas those who are on the exchanges will have to be content with imported doctors and those just starting out unless we pay cash. That MAY drive down cost, if enough people are outside of the big plans. I won''t know until probably June if we'll be able to find insurance we can afford or if we'll be forced into the federal exchange. At my age and financial status it will be a hit, but doable, just have to cut back the lifestyle. However, we'll probably lose our young engineers unless they have spouses working for government or large corporations who can furnish them insurance with substantial subsidies. Being self-employed or working for a small company (or a large company which will not subsidize the Obamacare increase) just got a LOT less pleasant for those between Medicaid & subsidy levels and upper middle class/lower upper class.Obamacare might actually lower health costs because it destroys insurance. You can expect a lot of doctors to move to a cash-only model with competitive prices, similar to how the cost of eye surgery dropped dramatically. When an MRI scan is 100% out of pocket, the price will drop from $2,000 to maybe a couple hundred bucks. The first few years of Obamacare will probably suck because doctors and the insurance companies need to adjust to the new model.
*fingers crossed
Obamacare might actually lower health costs because it destroys insurance. You can expect a lot of doctors to move to a cash-only model with competitive prices, similar to how the cost of eye surgery dropped dramatically. When an MRI scan is 100% out of pocket, the price will drop from $2,000 to maybe a couple hundred bucks. The first few years of Obamacare will probably suck because doctors and the insurance companies need to adjust to the new model.
*fingers crossed
http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/364462/obamacare-risk-corridors-reihan-salamThe risk corridors program is like risk adjustment in principle, but it is pegged not to the relative health of the enrolled population, but rather to whether or not costs fall below 97 percent of the expected level or above 103 percent of the expected level. Because the exchanges are falling far short of expectations, and because there is a real concern that the consumers who are signing up for coverage are disproportionately unhealthy, there is a real danger that you won’t have a balance of plans that fall below and plans that fall above the aforementioned thresholds. Rather, a great many plans might fall above 103 percent, in which case the government would have to provide some compensation.
Risk corridors are generally used to mitigate an insurer’s pricing risk. Under ObamaCare, risk corridors were established for the law’s first three years as a safety-net for insurers who experience financial losses. While risk corridors can protect taxpayers when they are budget-neutral, ObamaCare’s risk corridors are designed in such an open-ended manner that the president’s action now exposes taxpayers to a bailout of the health-insurance industry if and when the law fails.
Subsequent regulatory rulings have made clear that the administration views this risk-corridor authority as a blank check, requiring no further consultation or approval by Congress. A final rule handed down in March by HHS and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services states: “Regardless of the balance of payments and receipts, HHS will remit payments as required under section 1342 of the Affordable Care Act.”
<snip>
At this point I do not believe I could ever again vote for a Democrat at the national level even if someone like Rick Santorum is running. I'm not at all sure I could ever again vote for a Democrat even at the state or local level.
The affordable health care act was designed to do one thing, and that was to maximize profits for heath insurance providers. And the way to do that is to get every US citizen to pay as much as possible for healthcare.
Great, so Obamacare is going to greatly increase my health insurance costs AND I get to bail out the insurance companies?Don't think so.
Obamacare won't be "destroying" health insurance or HI companies any time soon. Read about the risk corridors program under Obamcare, It guarantees HI against losses. I.e., the bailout is already written into law and regulations.
http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/364462/obamacare-risk-corridors-reihan-salam
The price for medical service cannot fall dramatically like it did for lasik just because payment is made in cash. Clearly there is substantial overhead in the current billing procedures, but it's not close to that much.
Fern
Agreed. But at least I earn enough, live modestly enough, have no debt to be serviced, and am old enough that Obama won't take anything I can't afford to lose. At worst, we'll move from middle middle class to effectively lower middle class - in America, not a bad place to be. Those who are young and now find that their "affordable" premiums are more than their house payments are the ones really taking it in the shorts. Those are the people who must choose between living the American dream and having the security of health insurance. These are the people who will be kept as renters to subsidize new health insurance benefits for me that I neither want nor need nor will use.I am sorry to hear you are going through this.
Members of this forum may not always agree on a lot of stuff, but I think we can agree that the working class is getting screwed.
The affordable health care act was designed to do one thing, and that was to maximize profits for heath insurance providers. And the way to do that is to get every US citizen to pay as much as possible for healthcare.
As for the boat, I feel that if you work hard in life, you should be able to enjoy the rewards. By no longer being able to afford to buy a boat, the government has robbed you of a reward you worked for. The government took that boat money out of your hands and gave it to the insurance companies and their stockholders.
We are seeing a redistribution of wealth, but not from the rich to the poor. the wealth is flowing from the middle class to the already rich.
werepossum said:Another ATPNer gets nailed by Obamacare