Another ATPNer gets nailed by Obamacare

[Jhhnn]

http://www.oswego.edu/~edunne/340ch6part2.htm

Shameless misdirection. The commodity in question is money, not bonds. Consumers' appetite for credit has contracted, therefore money is cheap.

Econ 101.

 

[werepossum]

Welcome to the club

Well - at least I'm in good company around these parts.

 

[rudeguy]

Well - at least I'm in good company around these parts.

I made a thread about what would happen if I bought insurance under Obamacare. $17k a year for me and lil rudeguy. I'm not rich... I'm a single dad. I can't afford that. So I keep paying out of pocket and hope no one gets seriously ill.

 

[slayernine]

I don't get why America didn't just straight up copy what we do here in Canada. Our system works well, you go to a hospital when you have problems and they take care of you, no bill at the end of the day. Mothers can give birth without medical expenses.

You get stuck with the bill for drugs, eyecare and dental but they cost less here and most employers have a coverage plan for that stuff.

Edit** drugs given to you at the hospital are free

 

[Theb]

I don't get why America didn't just straight up copy what we do here in Canada. Our system works well, you go to a hospital when you have problems and they take care of you, no bill at the end of the day. Mothers can give birth without medical expenses.

You get stuck with the bill for drugs, eyecare and dental but they cost less here and most employers have a coverage plan for that stuff.

Edit** drugs given to you at the hospital are free

This would kill most of the current insurance industry. The insurance industry doesn't want to be killed so they will not allow their pets in congress to set up anything like that.

It's not just because congress is owned by corporations. When Hillarycare was gaining traction insurance companies started running ominous ads with worried families around the kitchen table.

 

[werepossum]

I made a thread about what would happen if I bought insurance under Obamacare. $17k a year for me and lil rudeguy. I'm not rich... I'm a single dad. I can't afford that. So I keep paying out of pocket and hope no one gets seriously ill.

Yeah, I remember that thread. You're exactly the person for whom Obamacare was touted to work, pre-existing conditions. Instead, Obamacare made it worse for you by trying to mandate providing all things to all people.

I don't get why America didn't just straight up copy what we do here in Canada. Our system works well, you go to a hospital when you have problems and they take care of you, no bill at the end of the day. Mothers can give birth without medical expenses.

You get stuck with the bill for drugs, eyecare and dental but they cost less here and most employers have a coverage plan for that stuff.

Edit** drugs given to you at the hospital are free

Our leaders are apparently trying to make things so bad for us that we'll embrace your system. It's good enough for most people most of the time, but if you need sophisticated equipment you may be screwed. The greater Chattanooga area serves roughly a million people and we have as many MRI machines as the entire nation of Canada. (For people anyway; your dog can get an MRI in Canada the same day.) My primary care physician has a fishing buddy in Canada, a fellow Doctor Without Borders, and a Women's Auxiliary group was raising funds to buy his regional hospital (caring for roughly 300,000 people) a freakin' endoscope. It's a rare hospital in the USA that does not own several; even the smallest will own at least three different models, and many private doctor's offices will have a couple. It's very basic medical equipment. And when my father was treated for prostate cancer a decade back in a Florida Cancer Center, two or three of his group of eight or ten (I forget the actual numbers, but a significant percentage) receiving treatment were down from Canada just to get medical treatment in a timely fashion.

Bottom line, most Americans have access to much better health care - or did until Obamacare, anyway.

 

[rudeguy]

Yeah, I remember that thread. You're exactly the person for whom Obamacare was touted to work, pre-existing conditions. Instead, Obamacare made it worse for you by trying to mandate providing all things to all people.


Our leaders are apparently trying to make things so bad for us that we'll embrace your system. It's good enough for most people most of the time, but if you need sophisticated equipment you may be screwed. The greater Chattanooga area serves roughly a million people and we have as many MRI machines as the entire nation of Canada. (For people anyway; your dog can get an MRI in Canada the same day.) My primary care physician has a fishing buddy in Canada, a fellow Doctor Without Borders, and a Women's Auxiliary group was raising funds to buy his regional hospital (caring for roughly 300,000 people) a freakin' endoscope. It's a rare hospital in the USA that does not own several; even the smallest will own at least three different models, and many private doctor's offices will have a couple. It's very basic medical equipment. And when my father was treated for prostate cancer a decade back in a Florida Cancer Center, two or three of his group of eight or ten (I forget the actual numbers, but a significant percentage) receiving treatment were down from Canada just to get medical treatment in a timely fashion.

Bottom line, most Americans have access to much better health care - or did until Obamacare, anyway.

Shrug

I'm over caring. This whole thing. ..the lies, bribery, screwing the guys that pay the taxes, risking people's health care for political gains... its just drove me to the radical side of things. Fuck every single person in the government and fuck anyone who defends them. They are crooks. They make Nixon look like a boy scout and Bush look like a genius.

 

[boomerang]

Anyone remember Julia? You know, the fictional woman that was dreamed up during Obama's 2012 campaign that benefited so greatly from the government as she grew up? From Head Start to College to starting a business with government help?

http://web.archive.org/web/20130116064050/http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

Well, she turned 26, got dropped from her parent's insurance and her story continues...

http://reallifeofjulia.tumblr.com/

 

[Texashiker]

Well - at least I'm in good company around these parts.

A lot of us are in the same ship as you.

Well, she turned 26, got dropped from her parent's insurance and her story continues...

That is a messed up and sad story.

 

[senseamp]

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/form...s-70-of-obamacare-xCqvf5f9TbCyvmVqIejP8Q.html
Interesting perspective from the former GOP Senate Majority Leader and a doctor Bill Frist. Basically he says that 70% of Obamacare is GOOD, and 30% needs tuning, things like premium ratios (he thinks it should be 5:1 instead of 3:1 between sick and healthy) and covered benefits (he thinks those should be less comprehensive for routine care).
Can't say I am a huge fan of Frist, but he speaks in an analytical and rational way that GOP just isn't capable of speaking as a party anymore. If any of still serving GOP senators said what he did, they would be guaranteed a primary challenger.

 

[Naeeldar]

I don't get why America didn't just straight up copy what we do here in Canada. Our system works well, you go to a hospital when you have problems and they take care of you, no bill at the end of the day. Mothers can give birth without medical expenses.

You get stuck with the bill for drugs, eyecare and dental but they cost less here and most employers have a coverage plan for that stuff.

Edit** drugs given to you at the hospital are free

Politically it would be suicide at the moment. There is still enough Americans, myself as an example, who want to go back to the old system. Plus the American people as a whole would never stand for the tax increase that would be required for Canada's system.

The reality though is many people were happy with the old system. To put it bluntly, unless it was a kid under the age of 18, I really did not care if people did not have insurance. Some call it heartless but it's how I felt/feel.

 

[IkebotXP]

The reality though is many people were happy with the old system. To put it bluntly, unless it was a kid under the age of 18, I really did not care if people did not have insurance. Some call it heartless but it's how I felt/feel.

I feel the same way about the local fire department. It is not the government's job to rush in and help someone because they were too dumb to turn off their stove, or upgrade their wiring.

 

[Matt1970]

I don't get why America didn't just straight up copy what we do here in Canada. Our system works well, you go to a hospital when you have problems and they take care of you, no bill at the end of the day. Mothers can give birth without medical expenses.

You get stuck with the bill for drugs, eyecare and dental but they cost less here and most employers have a coverage plan for that stuff.

Edit** drugs given to you at the hospital are free

First we have to buy off the insurance industry to make them go away. Then taxes have to kick in to pay for all that. When the bottom 40% pays negative taxes, and they cry and complain for even more, we could never afford that.

 

[Naeeldar]

I feel the same way about the local fire department. It is not the government's job to rush in and help someone because they were too dumb to turn off their stove, or upgrade their wiring.

Funny thing about that most local FD are not govt funded if you don't live in the city. try trolling a little harder next time.

 

[rudeguy]

I don't get why America didn't just straight up copy what we do here in Canada. Our system works well, you go to a hospital when you have problems and they take care of you, no bill at the end of the day. Mothers can give birth without medical expenses.

You get stuck with the bill for drugs, eyecare and dental but they cost less here and most employers have a coverage plan for that stuff.

Edit** drugs given to you at the hospital are free

Because we can't afford it.

Our government already spends an ungodly amount of money every year. Its mind blowing if you look at the actual amount of money that we burn through. We could not possibly afford to take over health care, its just not possible.

Plus look at how badly they messed up this rollout. 3 years and how many hundreds of millions of dollars to launch a website that not only was flawed, it wasn't even complete! Ten thousand pages of legislation and the law is still a mess and needs more pages.

Our government would royally fuck up everyone's health care if they tried to take over the system 100%.

 

[fskimospy]

Because we can't afford it.

Our government already spends an ungodly amount of money every year. Its mind blowing if you look at the actual amount of money that we burn through. We could not possibly afford to take over health care, its just not possible.

Plus look at how badly they messed up this rollout. 3 years and how many hundreds of millions of dollars to launch a website that not only was flawed, it wasn't even complete! Ten thousand pages of legislation and the law is still a mess and needs more pages.

Our government would royally fuck up everyone's health care if they tried to take over the system 100%.

Wait, so your argument is that the United States is uniquely incompetent when it comes to governing itself? Why do you think this is?

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives always think that America is the greatest country in the world, unless it comes to doing something liberal. Then we are totally helpless idiots.

Canada has a superior health care system to ours. There is no shame in stealing what works best from it.

 

[fskimospy]

Funny thing about that most local FD are not govt funded if you don't live in the city. try trolling a little harder next time.

What percentage of Americans live in homes that are protected by fire departments funded by tax dollars? My guess is the vast majority. His point stands.

 

[nehalem256]

Wait, so your argument is that the United States is uniquely incompetent when it comes to governing itself? Why do you think this is?

Healthcare.gov

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Wait, so your argument is that the United States is uniquely incompetent when it comes to governing itself? Why do you think this is

Yeah, I mean other nations fight over budgets to the point where things shut down. Nothing much different I suppose. Then we do have motions of no confidence like Canada which provides some accountability in office. Oh, wait neither is true.

Maybe we should borrow some things from Canada.

 

[Naeeldar]

What percentage of Americans live in homes that are protected by fire departments funded by tax dollars? My guess is the vast majority. His point stands.

% of people is nothing. Thats the funny thing it makes your argument weaker. % of FD across the country - guess what most are volunteers with no real funding.

Anyway I'm find with govt pulling funding for the FD if it means we can drop this insurance bullshit. I've got homeowners so no sweat off my back.

 

[fskimospy]

% of people is nothing. Thats the funny thing it makes your argument weaker. % of FD across the country - guess what most are volunteers with no real funding.

Anyway I'm find with govt pulling funding for the FD if it means we can drop this insurance bullshit. I've got homeowners so no sweat off my back.

Uhmm, your argument is that the number of fire departments is what matters, not the percentage of people and houses they protect? On what possible logical basis are you making this argument? The purpose of fire departments is overwhelmingly to protect people and property.

As for your insurance, it appears you don't understand the reason for socialized firefighting. Your burning house is not just a threat to you, it is a threat to your community. Maybe you don't care if it burns down, but your neighbors care if in the process it catches their house on fire.

 

[rudeguy]

Wait, so your argument is that the United States is uniquely incompetent when it comes to governing itself? Why do you think this is?

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives always think that America is the greatest country in the world, unless it comes to doing something liberal. Then we are totally helpless idiots.

Canada has a superior health care system to ours. There is no shame in stealing what works best from it.

Because every thing the government gets involved in turns to shit.

Please name one successful program the government runs that isn't either broke, going broke or a complete waste.

 

[slayernine]

First we have to buy off the insurance industry to make them go away. Then taxes have to kick in to pay for all that. When the bottom 40% pays negative taxes, and they cry and complain for even more, we could never afford that.

Buy a few less tanks, shoot a handful less patriot missiles, buy a couple less jets and America could afford to take care of its citizens. I mean health care with no premiums, where you go the the doctor and all they ask is that you are a citizen. If you want to pay more to get faster service, the private sector can take care of that need.

 

[Naeeldar]

Uhmm, your argument is that the number of fire departments is what matters, not the percentage of people and houses they protect? On what possible logical basis are you making this argument? The purpose of fire departments is overwhelmingly to protect people and property.

As for your insurance, it appears you don't understand the reason for socialized firefighting. Your burning house is not just a threat to you, it is a threat to your community. Maybe you don't care if it burns down, but your neighbors care if in the process it catches their house on fire.

Actually my argument is that the FD has nothing to do with socialized medicine. It's a circular argument that I could come up with for almost any scenario. And since he used it in the argument I said I was willing to drop govt paying for the fd, if it meant we could drop this whole insurance debacle - i'd still have an FD due to how we operate in the suburbs here.

BTW check out Camden. They have no FD locally anymore and its avoided burning down.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Buy a few less tanks, shoot a handful less patriot missiles, buy a couple less jets and America could afford to take care of its citizens. I mean health care with no premiums, where you go the the doctor and all they ask is that you are a citizen. If you want to pay more to get faster service, the private sector can take care of that need.

It's going to take more than that, considering there's 3 million more people in State of California than in the Country of Canada. The US has almost 10 times the population of Canada.