Another bloke complaining about 9800Pro

[maya]

I put together a new computer earlier this week. Bought all the items at newegg.
*SOYO KT600 Dragon Plus mobo
*AMD XP2700 333FSB
*2x512 Corsair PC3200 DDR400
*ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB
*80G WD HD W/ 8M CACHE
*Audigy Gamer Sound Card
*WinXP Pro

Installed every one of the XP updates. Installed the ATI software drivers from the accompanying CD. Then tried to run benchmarks 3dMark01, 3dMark03 and AquaMark3. Every one of them failed within a few seconds; my monitor would go blank but the HD would be churning. Repeated this infinite times and the same problem. I updated to the latest ATI Catalyst 3.8 drivers which has a built in error reporting tool. That helped in generating automatic error reports to <SmartSave@ati.com> (never heard back from 'em yet). Finally, switched the video card to my old GF4Ti4400 with the latest nVidia Det. drivers 45.23 and the thing works like a charm!

So then, I reformatted the HD and reinstalled XP with all the updates. After several trial & errors, I finally found the only config that this system can handle:
AGP Aperture Size: 64 MB
AGP Support: 4x

I tried 128MB-8x, 128MB-4x, 64MB-8x but all of them crash. My friend has a Soyo KT400 mobo, XP2700, 1G PC3200, 9800 Pro and he does not have any problems, and he has offered to swap our video cards on our machines to find out if the problem is with the mobo or the video card. Last but not the least, I have come across several posts and opinions that 128MB-8x will not make a huge difference for today's games.. but.. I paid for a 128MB AGP 8x card and I would like to get my money's worth, if nothing else in namesake.

I would greatly appreciate your suggestions. Unfortunately, newegg will not refund the 9800Pro for other cards or money-back, so my only options are a different mobo or a different 9800Pro card.

Sincerely
Maya

 

[maya]

BUMP

 

[boyRacer]

So you updated everything? Windows update... SP1... Direct-X 9b... then the Via 4in1s... then the ATi Catalyst 3.8s? Maybe you should wait until your friend tries out your card first?

 

[sodcha0s]

Use whatever AGP aperture size works. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the APG aperture size is the amount of system memory that will be used IF your onboard video ram gets full. Since you'll never encounter this, (for the forseeable future anyway) this setting has no effect on performance.

Appearently there is no noticeable performance gain between 8x over 4x anyway, and the same is true for fast writes. Try disabling fast writes in BIOS and see what happens.

 

[nick1985]

you got a kt600???

whats your powersupply

 

[Blastman]

THe extra power adapter for the 9800 was hooked up???

May have a bad card.

 

[maya]

RE: boyRacer -- Yes I have updated everything you have mentioned. Didn't want to flash my BIOS though (for now). Soyo's site lists a more recent BIOS version but doesn't state whats changed!

RE: sodcha0s -- No offense to you but I have stated my opinion about Aperture & AGP settings in the 4th paragraph. From my layman's point of view, I paid $364 for this card that was supposed to be 128MB 8X, and irrespective of if I can put it immediately to use or not, I want its worth. Else I could have got myself a decent card for $150 or so. (Plus hurts my ego that it works perfectly on others' machines but not mine Finally, I will check the BIOS settings for the 'fast write' option, but I vaguely remember it being disabled. Atleast I did not change it from its default value.

RE: nick1985 -- I have an Antec Plus1080AMG - SOHO File Server which comes with the Antec 430W TruePower supply. I was told that would definitely be enough for my config.

RE: Blastman -- Yes the power connector is hooked up.

Thanks y'all
Maya

 

[sodcha0s]

I understand maya, if AGP 8x is that important, then you should just buy a $150 card. But don't expect top performance out of it. Dude, you have the best video card on the market right now, and IT WORKS. 8x is NEVER going to matter. I'm not trying to belittle your point at all, I'm just trying to help you understand that you shouldn't worry about not being able to get 8x out of the card. I tell you what, I have a 9500 pro with a zalman fanless heatsink on it. It runs at 8x, aperture size 128 or 256, whatever you decide to set it to. Hell it even runs fine with fast writes enabled. I will trade you even up for your 9800 pro and pay for all shipping....

 

[Pete]

I would update the BIOS, if I were you. This really sounds like a BIOS issue, as I don't see why an increased AGP Aperture size should affect anything. AFAIK, it's generally recommended to have an AGP Aperture size equal to your video card memory size.

 

[Mem]

Also check in ATI Smartgart tab that fastwrites are disabled there,some BIOS tweaks might help so disable video ram cacheable,disable system bios cacheable,disable all video shadowing .

Some people have better stability with their video card by bumping the AGP voltage up(if your board allows this) so try that.

 

[SectorZero]

Also check out the ATI and SOYO web sites. There are FAQ's and hardware compatability lists and such where you may find some info on your problem.
It does sound like something is not getting enough voltage though.

Try bumping up the voltage to your RAM.
Had a simmilar prob using 512 DIMMS, my system didn't settle down till I gave it 2.8v to the RAM.

 

[Emultra]

Originally posted by: Pete
I would update the BIOS, if I were you. This really sounds like a BIOS issue, as I don't see why an increased AGP Aperture size should affect anything. AFAIK, it's generally recommended to have an AGP Aperture size equal to your video card memory size.

I originally thought that was the purpose, that it was meant to be set at the video card memory size.

 

[chsh1ca]

I googled around a bit, and couldn't come up with anyone with a similar issue. You say you slapped in the GF4Ti4400, but what did you set it to in the BIOS? Was it set to 128mb 8x as well? If there is a discrepancy there where the GF4 is only working under the same conditions the Radeon is, I would not assume it's the video card's issue, and that rather it is a problem with the motherboard. You could try flashing the bios, and failing that return the motherboard for a replacement.

 

[Johnbear007]

I would try a different mobo. With an Nforce 2 chipset

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: Emultra

Originally posted by: Pete
I would update the BIOS, if I were you. This really sounds like a BIOS issue, as I don't see why an increased AGP Aperture size should affect anything. AFAIK, it's generally recommended to have an AGP Aperture size equal to your video card memory size.

I originally thought that was the purpose, that it was meant to be set at the video card memory size.

That is false and silly.

The AGP aperture size is the amount of RAM the system is allowed to use if the video card needs more ram than is onboard. How large you set it should depend on how much system ram you have. If you have a GB than 256 is a good size, if you have 512 than 128 is a good size.

Most likely it wont be used. There is NO reason to set it to the same as your video card, thats a stupid myth.

 

[BGod]

maya, If it make you feel any better I've got an ATI All In Wonder 9800 Pro 128MB card that was doing exactly what you stated. Fire up Unreal Tournament or Star Trek Elite Forces 2 and within 2 minutes, boom, monitor goes into standby and powers off and there's a noticable tick in the sound. The machine has to be reset 'cause the three finger salute won't even get it to come back from that one.

Soyo KT400 Dragon Ultra Platinum
2 - Corsair XMS PC2700 512 MB bricks
AMD XP 2700 @ 333 FSB
ATI AIW 9800 Pro 128 MB
Western Digital WD800JB x 3
SB Audigy 1
Antec SX1030 w/ 430 Watt Antec TruePower PS

The first ATI card I got had a burnt out TV tuner and the audio crossbar wouldn't install. It would capture video, just no sound at all. It played UT & EF2 just fine under XP though. Once I got the card back from the RMA I low leveled the hard drive and installed 2K Pro. Fresh install, VIA 4in1, Catalyst 3.7 drivers, then DirectX 9.0b and yes the BIOS has been flashed to the latest and greatest. Machine wouldn't play UT. So again I low leveled the hard drive and installed 2K and moved the the Catalyst 3.8 drivers. Still couldn't play UT. Checked Creative's site thinking it was a sound card issue because of the stutter when it locks up. Latest drivers from them and it still locked up. I just about ordered a 500 Watt Raidmax power supply this afternoon, until I read this post.

I moved the slider from 8x to 4x AGP and rebooted the machine. Checked the AGP apature size and it's at 64 MB, all BIOS & ROM shadows are disabled. Fired up UT and actually played a game on my in-house UT server without a lock up. Fast writes are off in my BIOS, but on in the video card's driver control panel.

 

[RollWave]

do you use an LCD? I have a 17inch and none of the benching programs will work on my monitor bc it says that the vid mode isnt supported or something...

 

[maya]

THE VERDICT IS IN FOLKS...

I took my video card and tried it on my friend's machine who has a very similar setup like mine except that he has the Soyo KT400 Lite mobo and his BIOS allows for changing the AGP voltage. His BIOS voltage was set to 1.6V (default is 1.5V) and he too owns the same video card.

So anyways.. plugged my card in.. ran 3dMark01 and 3dMark03 and.. IT WORKED PERFECTLY! Not a hitch. And the scores with my card were very close to his.. as you would expect. Just outa curiosity, we dropped the AGP voltage back down to the default 1.5V and it still worked like a charm.

So I am convinced. I already got an RMA from newegg to return the mobo and I have placed a new order for the Soyo KT400 Dragon Ultra (I didn't see the Lite version at newegg). It should be here by Thursday.. I will keep you updated.

Thanks to all
Maya

P.S.: [Re: Bgod] Your comments are interesting. I hope I won't have to return the Ultra (noted yours was the platinum edition). Rest of your gig is very similar to mine except for a few differences. I would suggest that you change your AGP aperture back to 128MB and the AGP settings to 8x but try changing the AGP voltage to 1.6V and give it a shot. As you had noted earlier, keep the fastwrites and BIOS shadows etc disabled. Do let us know how it goes.

 

[Pete]

maya, did you try flashing the MB BIOS first?

 

[maya]

No, I did not flash my BIOS. FYI my version was dated 8/25/03 and the latest one at Soyo's site listed 9/17/03. However, I was discouraged not to flash my BIOS since, there was no listing explaining what the updates were and secondly, my friend suggested that they usually don't give you additional features on updates. And last but not the least, I didn't want to screw up the BIOS and not be able to return to newegg (since this is my first time).

Maya

 

[BGod]

maya, I knew there was a reason I hung around the AT forums. Went into the BIOS and it turns out the fast writes are on, so I stepped up the AGP voltage to 1.6v, AGP apature to 128 MB and once booted up I switched to 8x AGP on the SMARTGART tab in the driver control panel. Rebooted and played UT for about 15 minutes, then it locked up. But the screen didn't go black this time, but the sound was stuttering and you could tell it had lost vertical sync. I dumped SMARTGART back to 4x AGP, rebooted, and it played UT fine for the last half hour without a hitch.

Final stettings in SMARTGART
AGP: 4x
Fast Writes: on

Final settings in BIOS
Fast Writes: on
AGP apature: 128
AGP voltage: 1.6v

Now, does anyone know how to make Star Trek Elite Force ][ sync any higher than 60hz? It's killing my eyes on this Nokia 445Xi Plus.

 

[Pete]

maya, the reason I ask is because that was a potentially simple fix that may have saved both you and NewEgg time and money. BIOS flashes really can't go wrong unless you unplug the power from the PC during the flash. And updated BIOSes usually are purely for updated features (more supported CPUs) or enhanced compatability (what you needed). But if NewEgg was willing to replace it, and you're OK with paying return shipping, then I really can't fault you. Good luck with the replacement board.

BGod, you really shouldn't have to overvolt your video card for it to run properly. Does the card work at regular voltage and with AGP4x?

To up your 3D refresh rate, go to Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > ATi Displays > click on your monitor > select "Same as desktop" from the Refresh Rate Override drop-down menu. Provided your desktop is set to something higher than 60Hz, your games will also share the same (higher) refresh rate.

 

[BGod]

I found the answer on Activision's support site:
Start the game and hit the ~ key to open the console, then type in:
r_displayrefresh "x" (where x is the refresh rate you want)
enter key
vid_restart
enter key
Hit the ~ key to close the console

 

[maya]

Re: BGod

If you do have the time to tinker around, I would be curious to know if you are stable with the following BIOS settings:

Fast Writes: Off
AGP aperture: 128
AGP setting: 8x
AGP voltage: 1.5v

Like I mentioned earlier, my friend's KT400 Lite with these settings worked perfectly fine.

Just curious...
Maya

 

[CraigRT]

to me it just looks like improper driver installation order.

my order:

install windows
install windows updates
install 4in1's or nvidia's drivers (mobo drivers)
install directx
install video