Another cop shooting

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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
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So he would have shot a black female that did the same thing?

Like everyone else here, we're just surmising as to the reason the cop over-reacted in this situation. For all we know, he had too many 4-hour energy drinks and was completely on edge.

- Merg

He was a racist bigot. He assumed all black men were killers and reacted accordingly. It was a race crime. This isn't rocket science.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,326
15,128
136
Do any of the people who are of the opinion that the person who got shot was even a little bit at fault answer me this question: If it was a 5'7" smoking hot female with some daisy dukes on, would the officer have shot her and would she be partially to blame if she did get shot?

No she wouldn't have been shot, she's not a scary black man and that's the point.
 

The Merg

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2009
1,210
34
91
He was a racist bigot. He assumed all black men were killers and reacted accordingly. It was a race crime. This isn't rocket science.

It's nice that you know all these things about the officer without knowing anything about him.

I'm sure that he has never come across any other black men during his time as an officer until this one time, since according to your logic, he would have killed many other black men since he assumes they are all killers.

Also, if he is so bigoted, why has he never had any complaints filed against him charging him with being a racist. I would think that at least one person would have filed a complaint on that topic.

- Merg
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,142
136
He didn't dive into his truck. That's obvious. He followed the police offier's order and was shot for it.

Guess you can't blame SA. Black male shot without cause he will always look for an excuse to blame victim and absolve shooter. In his DNA I guess.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Union or no union, I don't see him doing any time either. He was doing his job. Obviously, a poor job but non the less he responded with deadly force because he was in fear of a weapon. This wasn't racially motivated and the way he was running and jumping for cover seemed like he really believed the guy had a weapon. I don't see him doing any time.

He was complying with the officers lawful order....
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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It was a jump/dart/too quick of a reach into the truck. Not at all surprised he got capped for it.

This is why cops always say SLOWLY raise your hands, SLOWLY get out of your vehicle. They are trained to blow someone away if they act like this guy did.


........I'm not saying the cop did no wrong here. But the guy certainly wouldn't have gotten shot if he hadn't dived into his truck like that. Of course him and mama will likely get a big fat payout so it was probably worth it.



Maybe this is going to be the latest scheme - act like a fool to get yourself shot, then you or your family get that big fat check.

Except the cop didn't say slowly and to my knowledge there is no law that says you must follow lawful orders given by LEO slowly.

Guy got shot for doing exactly what the officer told him to do, if he wanted it done at a certain speed he should have said so. 100% bad shoot
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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I disagree. There are thousands of dedicated, conscientious law enforcement officers, local, state and federal, who put their lives at risk every day to protect us all. And I, for one, am damned glad they will show up if I call 911.

This particular cop either was poorly trained or lacked the mindset necessary to do his job correctly. Or both. And he has been dealt with appropriately.

My roofers have a far more dangerous job just keeping the rain off your head, where is the praise for them? If we fuck up we pay for what got fucked up.

Numbers don't lie, being a cop isn't a particularly dangerous job, pretty sure most of their injuries come from traffic accidents unrelated to the job.
 

The Merg

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2009
1,210
34
91
Numbers don't lie, being a cop isn't a particularly dangerous job, pretty sure most of their injuries come from traffic accidents unrelated to the job.

If they are doing their job and are in a traffic accident, whether they caused it or not, that would be a job-related accident. Or are you referring to a situation where they are just driving down the street and someone rear-ends them? Even in that situation, it's considered to be job-related since if they were not working they would not have been in that situation. It's like that for any job.

Edit: Oh, and yes, being a roofer is a tough and thankless job, but according to most people here being a cop is a thankless job as well. At least as a roofer, your fate is generally in your hands in that no one is trying to throw you off the roof or fight with you or shoot at you.

http://criminologycareers.about.com/od/Career_Trends/a/Dangers-In-Criminal-Justice-Careers.htm

Yes, numbers don't lie.

- Merg
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
My roofers have a far more dangerous job just keeping the rain off your head, where is the praise for them?

According to OSHA standards roofers should be wearing the appropriate safety equipment and have positive tie off to prevent falls. I would say chances are quite high that those who have lost their life or were injured due to a fall while roofing were not following OSHA safety rules.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
According to OSHA standards roofers should be wearing the appropriate safety equipment and have positive tie off to prevent falls. I would say chances are quite high that those who have lost their life or were injured due to a fall while roofing were not following OSHA safety rules.

I'd say in most cases your still going to fall, your just not going to hit the ground.
I wouldn't want to experience that back breaking jerk when your line hits it's limit either
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
I'd say in most cases your still going to fall, your just not going to hit the ground.
I wouldn't want to experience that back breaking jerk when your line hits it's limit either

You do realize that waist belts are not allowed, only full body harnesses which are similar to those used with parachutes. The connection "D" ring is located between the shoulder blades so there will be no back breaking jerk you speak of.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
You do realize that waist belts are not allowed, only full body harnesses which are similar to those used with parachutes. The connection "D" ring is located between the shoulder blades so there will be no back breaking jerk you speak of.

lol
You put one on and make even a 3 foot fall, there's a big difference between that and a parachute
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I've done both and there not much difference in what the body is subjected to when the fall is halted by a 6 ft fall (off a mast on a destroyer at sea) or a parachute deploying.

Alrighty.. I've never parachuted before and your probably used to a more rugged lifestyle then me. I'll just have to take your word on it
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I should add that although I spent years attached to safety lines, I've never fell before either
Been there when people have, they were off on comp for a year
No doubt must of faked it
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
If they are doing their job and are in a traffic accident, whether they caused it or not, that would be a job-related accident. Or are you referring to a situation where they are just driving down the street and someone rear-ends them? Even in that situation, it's considered to be job-related since if they were not working they would not have been in that situation. It's like that for any job.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. My point was that it wasn't a bad guy intentionally hurting them.

Edit: Oh, and yes, being a roofer is a tough and thankless job, but according to most people here being a cop is a thankless job as well. At least as a roofer, your fate is generally in your hands in that no one is trying to throw you off the roof or fight with you or shoot at you.

http://criminologycareers.about.com/od/Career_Trends/a/Dangers-In-Criminal-Justice-Careers.htm

Yes, numbers don't lie.

- Merg

Actually in almost every fatal accident I have seen or heard of (and in the industry you hear and talk about most) someone else was at least partially responsible for the death. Its never intentional but it isn't nearly as much "fate in your hands" as it may seem.

The last fatality in my state came from someone unclipping another mans safety line because it was in the way and then hooking it back to something not capable of handling the weight. The man fell, the "anchor" broke, and the safety line followed him all the way to the ground.

The difference is that my roofers don't needlessly put other people in danger as an excuse for their safety despite being at far greater risk of dying on the job.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
According to OSHA standards roofers should be wearing the appropriate safety equipment and have positive tie off to prevent falls. I would say chances are quite high that those who have lost their life or were injured due to a fall while roofing were not following OSHA safety rules.

Same can be said with traffic accidents, the number 1 cause of death for police officers.

And as I pointed out above, most of the time its the man next to you that gets you injured or the asshole flagging the crane and not paying attention or even the asshole on the crane lighting a smoke instead of watching the flagger or some asshole not properly securing a load or bad decking that you can't see giving way.

A rather old roofing company owner who had been roofing all of his life died about 10 years ago walking on a corrugated metal roof. The roof had been coated, which isn't uncommon for corrugated metal roofs, but they didn't put metal panels over the fiberglass skylights like they were supposed to. The guy was measuring the roof to give an estimate to replace it, stepped on one of the painted over skylights that was virtually impossible to see, fell through it and landed on his head in the warehouse below. He lived for a month as a vegetable before finally dying. Every single project manager and estimator in the state knows that story because that guy was an old school pro and while he isn't faultless, in hindsight I can think of a way to avoid it, it is that easy to do almost everything right and die.

For the record the roof had a 1/12 pitch and per OSHA guidelines he was not required to have any sort of fall protection beyond 4' of the roofs edge. At the time, as long as he was estimating, which he was, he wasn't required to have any fall protection on regardless of the roofs slope because by the time you get to the high point of the roof and install an anchor (read: put holes in a roof that you don't have a contract on, something you typically want to avoid) you are already pretty much done with your job.

Another story from my state, I actually bid on this job, first day of a tile reroof the first guy on the roof is walking to the ridge to install anchor points. As he is walking up the roof a tile breaks, he falls and slides clean off the roof. There is absolutely nothing that could have been done in that situation. If he would have tied off at the edge of the roof he would have had enough slack in his rope to probably hit the ground and if not cause very severe injury from the length of fall and shock. Yes we have shock absorbs but if your fall isn't arrested in 6' you risk severe injury even with the shock absorb which is 1' when worn and 3' when extended (giving you 4' of actual "rope" to free fall before risk of severe injury per OSHA). Do you have any idea how friggin hard it is to ensure that at any given time a person is tied off in a way as to only allow them 3' (company policy) of possible free fall while actually getting a job done AND not putting other men at greater risk of other injuries . Self retracts are great but present huge tripping hazards to other men, rope grabs are what we used the most but if your work requires you to move across the roof you essentially have to work one handed with the other hand constantly on the rope grab (take a stab at how often they do that) or you get a ton of slack in your rope.

Also falls aren't the only dangers. Take a drive around town and look at how many flat roofs there are. When you are beyond the 4' perimeter of the roof no fall protection is required because you are on a flat surface. A ton of those flat roofs have wood decks and no one even remembers they have a roof until it starts leaking. Water + wood + a 250lb guy with tools and heavy roofing materials and you should get the idea. Another great thing about flat roofs is they are usually applied with 400+ degree roofing tar. I personally had an "encounter" with that when I was 16 because someone pushed the mop buggy (2 wheel wheelbarrow filled with melted tar) behind me as I was hauling material and I fell into it backwards, I didn't die but the experience was pure hell.

With all of the above, you still don't see roofers putting the general public at greater risk so that they can increase their safety. They know and accept the risks every day they go to work yet for cops they are allowed to put ME in greater risk to protect themselves from something that may or may not be a threat to them.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
You do realize that waist belts are not allowed, only full body harnesses which are similar to those used with parachutes. The connection "D" ring is located between the shoulder blades so there will be no back breaking jerk you speak of.

If the free fall is greater than 6', yes there is. Maybe not back breaking but definitely enough of an impact to cause severe injury. Then you have the entire "hanging" issue, we have to get a man up within 5 minutes of a normal (less than 6') fall before he risks injury to his legs due to loss of blood circulation.

I have fallen in a harness, free fall was only 2' before the shock absorb came out and decelerated me and even with the very short free fall AND a deceleration device the jolt was insane and left me in pain/sore for days. All of this is per OSHA too if you care to look it up.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
I've done both and there not much difference in what the body is subjected to when the fall is halted by a 6 ft fall (off a mast on a destroyer at sea) or a parachute deploying.

I've done both too and I know a fuckton of other people who have done one or the other and my experience and theirs differs wildly from yours. You got lucky my friend.

Out of curiosity, did you have a deceleration device connected to your harness?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I've done both too and I know a fuckton of other people who have done one or the other and my experience and theirs differs wildly from yours. You got lucky my friend.

Out of curiosity, did you have a deceleration device connected to your harness?

No, the Navy had not instituted them at that time.

The military were the guinea pigs for most of what is now required by OSHA.
 

The Merg

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2009
1,210
34
91
Same can be said with traffic accidents, the number 1 cause of death for police officers.


With all of the above, you still don't see roofers putting the general public at greater risk so that they can increase their safety. They know and accept the risks every day they go to work yet for cops they are allowed to put ME in greater risk to protect themselves from something that may or may not be a threat to them.


With regards to the number one cause of deaths for officers, accidents and gunfire are basically the same every year (about 35% for each) with the remainder being "other" deaths.

And what do you mean by that the police put the general public at greater risk to increase their own safety? Are there bad officers out there? Of course, there are, just with any occupation. It's just that in today's Information Age anything that a public servant does wrong is going to be scrutinized, documented, analyzed, and rehashed. And with the media we have today, the more negative the better.

There are close to a million police officers out there. If 1% are bad, that means that there are a 10,000 bad cops out there. With the number of stories out there of over-zealous cops there, does that even arise to that number? Should we be happy with 10,000 bad cops out there? No, but to say that the other 990,000 are out there contributing to the harm of citizens is not a fair statement.

Most cops are out there because they want to arrest criminals and help people. Do some cops like the power-trip? Sure, but that doesn't mean they don't want to help people. They also want to go home each night. In some cases, they are faced with making a split-second decision that can determine if that happens at night. Are all the calls made the right call? Of course not. We're human which means that we make mistakes. It's impossible to make the right call 100% of the time. You also have to realize that if a cop shoots or kills someone, they have to go to sleep every night knowing that. A cop does not want to shoot an innocent person. If they do and they were negligent, then they need to face the consequences.

- Merg
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
No, the Navy had not instituted them at that time.

The military were the guinea pigs for most of what is now required by OSHA.

And you think an un-decelerated 6' drop in a safety harness is the same "jolt" as when a parachute opens??? The first is borderline guaranteed injury and the second is no big deal. One is an abrupt and complete stop with all of your body weight and energy from the fall (roughly the equivalent of a full size pickup truck) going directly wear the harness meets your legs (the majority of the energy) and the other isn't exactly gentle but it is deceleration over time and you don't actually come to a dead stop.

I don't know about you but the skydiving was fun. Falling in a harness fucking hurt and left huge welts on my inner legs. Hell if they don't get you up in time you can lose your legs from lack of circulation.

And god help you if you have your safety harness on for comfort instead of performance, which is the biggest thing I had to correct in my guys. You work for years without a fall and they get complacent, wearing a harness properly and working on a roof isn't exactly comfortable.

PS: OSHA fucking sucks. Just had to get that out of the way.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
With regards to the number one cause of deaths for officers, accidents and gunfire are basically the same every year (about 35% for each) with the remainder being "other" deaths.

I stand corrected. A full 1/3 of the deaths come from everyday traffic accidents, the exact same risk a taxi driver or anyone else on the road takes.

And what do you mean by that the police put the general public at greater risk to increase their own safety?

I was talking about actual policies like no knock warrants that are claimed to be about "officer safety" and they end up shooting someone innocent. Hell this thread is here because officers are taught to treat every traffic stop like it might be the .01% or something that gets them shot.

I'm sorry, their job just isn't dangerous enough to warrant this "shoot first" attitude that seems to be prevalent these days even with good cops. There are so many people needlessly killed by the police, justifiably or not, because of the perceived danger of the job.

Are there bad officers out there? Of course, there are, just with any occupation. It's just that in today's Information Age anything that a public servant does wrong is going to be scrutinized, documented, analyzed, and rehashed. And with the media we have today, the more negative the better.

I agree with the first part but the problem is the good officers in almost every instance protect the bad officers because of the "blue line" bullshit. In my industry we get rid of the "bad" assholes, in the police they are protected. Most of the real bad cops have people around them that know they are bad cops but because of the code no one says a damn thing and we ends up fucking even more of the general public over. You get cops to police their own and you would never hear another word about "bad cops" in a general way.

There are close to a million police officers out there. If 1% are bad, that means that there are a 10,000 bad cops out there. With the number of stories out there of over-zealous cops there, does that even arise to that number? Should we be happy with 10,000 bad cops out there? No, but to say that the other 990,000 are out there contributing to the harm of citizens is not a fair statement.

The other 990,000 need to get rid of the bad cops instead of covering up or even just shutting up when they see them do "bad cop shit".

Most cops are out there because they want to arrest criminals and help people. Do some cops like the power-trip? Sure, but that doesn't mean they don't want to help people.

It is a proven fact that police work in general attracts a certain type of personality that is much more likely to be "assholeish" (well, I don't think the study used the term assholeish but thats my definition). I understand and accept that, just get rid of the damn assholes before they escalate into criminal assholes with badges.

With that said, yes I would even say that most cops became cops to help their community and catch bad guys. The power gets to even those guys after a while but usually its relatively minor and I don't mind much, others not so minor and they are fucking assholes, like the asshole in Ferguson who thought he could point his AR at a crowd of peaceful protesters and say "i'll fucking kill you". I do wonder, do you think he would have been fired had it NOT been for the social media coverage/video?


They also want to go home each night. In some cases, they are faced with making a split-second decision that can determine if that happens at night. Are all the calls made the right call? Of course not. We're human which means that we make mistakes. It's impossible to make the right call 100% of the time. You also have to realize that if a cop shoots or kills someone, they have to go to sleep every night knowing that. A cop does not want to shoot an innocent person. If they do and they were negligent, then they need to face the consequences.

- Merg

I give them mistakes but unfortunately mistakes have consequences and I think they should face the exact same consequences as I would had I made the exact same mistake.

Tl:dr

I would like the good cops to police themselves and get rid of the assholes who are breaking the law instead of protecting them as the vast majority currently are.

I think they should face the exact same consequences for their mistakes as I would had I made the exact same mistake.

I don't think that is to much to ask for, do you?
 

Rebel44

Senior member
Jun 19, 2006
742
1
76
small update:


South Carolina Department of Public Safety later released another version of the dashboard camera video, which is almost an hour long, in which Groubert tells an individual, who appears to be his supervisor, his own version of the incident. His account appears to be in stark contrast of the footage recorded by the camera.

“Before I could even get out of my car he jumped out, stared at me, and as I jumped out of my car and identified myself, as I approached him, he jumped head-first back into his car … he jumped out of the car. I saw something black in his hands.”


Police brutality recently has received renewed national attention since the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown on Aug. 9 in Ferguson, Missouri. Protests and violence broke out in the St. Louis suburb following Brown’s death, and the community continues to demand justice. A grand jury is currently weighing whether or not to indict the officer who shot and killed Brown on criminal charges.

In Kansas City, Missouri, the FBI is investigating the case of a police tasing that put another cop’s son in critical condition and a medically-induced coma. And in Baltimore, Maryland, a cop was recently suspended after video footage surfaced of him apparently repeatedly beating a man.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trial-verdict-extended-ex-south-carolina-cop
 
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