another day, another shooting

[dawp]

4 dead in shooting incident at Pensacola naval base; suspect was Saudi national, officials say

Investigators trying to determine whether shooting was terror-related or not, officials told ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

still very little info

 

[MomentsofSanity]

What I saw indicated there are "multiple injuries". Second naval military installation shooting in a couple days.

 

[mikeymikec]

Perhaps the price of 2A freedom is that a load of random people are shot and killed each day? Kind of like a blood sacrifice?

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Perhaps the price of 2A freedom is that a load of random people are shot and killed each day? Kind of like a blood sacrifice?

Well clearly the solution is to give gun owners 2 choices: (1) give up the item that they will never use to hurt anybody (2) get buttfucked in prison

Let's not worry about healing the underlying mental health issues or ending the war on drugs.

 

[trenchfoot]

The tragic circumstances of the Hawaii murders at Pearl Harbor was made so much more tragic from news reports that the sailor was issued the weapons he used to murder those civilians as part of his duties that day.

Pls correct me if the reports I've heard are mistaken.

 

[TheVrolok]

Well clearly the solution is to give gun owners 2 choices: (1) give up the item that they will never use to hurt anybody (2) get buttfucked in prison

Let's not worry about healing the underlying mental health issues or ending the war on drugs.

lol, sad. Get the emotions out of it.

Also, these crazy gun free zones...

 

[Paladin3]

The tragic circumstances of the Hawaii murders at Pearl Harbor was made so much more tragic from news reports that the sailor was issued the weapons he used to murder those civilians as part of his duties that day.

Pls correct me if the reports I've heard are mistaken.

Yes, he used his issued M4 rifle on the three civilian contractors, two of whom are dead, and his issued duty pistol on himself.

EDIT: I was wrong. It was the shooter at the Pensacola naval base that used an issued M4 rifle to shoot three military contractors, two of who died, and then an issued 9mm pistol to commit suicide.

 

[balloonshark]

If only more people on military bases were armed this wouldn't have happened. /s

 

[Paladin3]

Perhaps the price of 2A freedom is that a load of random people are shot and killed each day? Kind of like a blood sacrifice?

We should simply void the 2A and that will somehow automatically disarm all those criminals/sick/evil murders, won't it? Or maybe we should ban murder? Or make the entire country a gun free zone so only bad guys are armed?

Wait, if we do toss out the 2A, exactly how are we supposed to disarm the criminals/sick/evil guys and round up those 400M+ guns? Explain that first and then we can talk.

EDIT: And, yes, the price of any freedom the majority enjoy legally and safely is that a tiny few will misuse it. But believing that if the law-abiding surrender that right it will in any way influence the sick/evil/criminals to do the same is folly. Hasn't the stupid war on drugs and alcohol prohibition taught us anything?

 

[BoomerD]

Yesterday, Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard...today NAS Pensacola...fckng squids.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

This won't end well. The shooter today was apparently a member of the Saudi military.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1203009251326738432

 

[mikeymikec]

Let's not worry about healing the underlying mental health issues or ending the war on drugs.

So business as usual for the Republicans, along with prizing 2A way above either of those things. It's like "thoughts and prayers" is their policy for everyone except protecting the 1%.

@Paladin3

I have attempted to discuss this topic with you before; on the last occasion you stooped to a level of ridiculousness that made it entirely pointless. Your response here is much of the same.

 

[Paladin3]

So business as usual for the Republicans, along with prizing 2A way above either of those things. It's like "thoughts and prayers" is their policy for everyone except protecting the 1%.

@Paladin3

I have attempted to discuss this topic with you before; on the last occasion you stooped to a level of ridiculousness that made it entirely pointless. Your response here is much of the same.

You dance divinely, and your side-step is beautiful. You took Pipeline's comment about two very real issues and somehow construed it to mean he is only concerned about the 1%. Then you dismissed my arguments by calling them ridiculous, but saying so doesn't make them so. The concern over how you are going to disarm the lawless along with the law-abiding is very real. To disarm only the lawful greatly empowers those who ignore laws against things like murder. Sorry if that doesn't concern you.

But, I understand your wish to avoid further debate on the subject, as we stand little chance of changing the other's mind.

And, as I've stated often, I'm no Republican (or Libertarian or anything even close to those things.) No idea about Pipeline, though.

 

[hal2kilo]

This will get interesting. Shooter was Saudi national here for training.
Sheriff does a good interview.

 

[Ichinisan]

So business as usual for the Republicans, along with prizing 2A way above either of those things. It's like "thoughts and prayers" is their policy for everyone except protecting the 1%.

@Paladin3

I have attempted to discuss this topic with you before; on the last occasion you stooped to a level of ridiculousness that made it entirely pointless. Your response here is much of the same.

Pretty sure this didn't have much to do with 2A since the offender is military. If anything, 2A lets us defend against a rampaging military wacko who would try to subjugate otherwise-defenseless civilians.

Jumping to your tired attempt at a dismissive insult is just lazy and embarrassing.

 

[UNCjigga]

Maybe some secret dark money liberals should blast ads all over TV and social media linking this shooter with Trump’s defense of MBS and Saudi military hardware buys??? Nah, we don’t have the balls to lie so big.

 

[hal2kilo]

Pretty sure this didn't have much to do with 2A since the offender is military. It anything, 2A lets us defend against a rampaging military wacko.

In your dreams.

 

[hal2kilo]

But Iran, is the real terrorist country.

 

[Ichinisan]

Pretty sure this didn't have much to do with 2A since the offender is military. It anything, 2A lets us defend against a rampaging military wacko.

In your dreams.

What exactly are you implying I dreamt about?

Can you explain how this event could be used as an argument to overturn the second amendment?

 

[Commodus]

We should simply void the 2A and that will somehow automatically disarm all those criminals/sick/evil murders, won't it? Or maybe we should ban murder? Or make the entire country a gun free zone so only bad guys are armed?

Wait, if we do toss out the 2A, exactly how are we supposed to disarm the criminals/sick/evil guys and round up those 400M+ guns? Explain that first and then we can talk.

EDIT: And, yes, the price of any freedom the majority enjoy legally and safely is that a tiny few will misuse it. But believing that if the law-abiding surrender that right it will in any way influence the sick/evil/criminals to do the same is folly. Hasn't the stupid war on drugs and alcohol prohibition taught us anything?

The problem isn't so much the existence of the Second Amendment as the fetishization of it -- the notion that you're almost obligated to buy a gun, and that society will collapse if you're not allowed to buy a semi-auto rifle or otherwise have even the slightest increase in gun control.

I don't think anyone is so naive as to think that gun regulations will completely avoid violence, but there such a thing as deciding when a price is too high. I'm pretty sure that schools having to prepare their kids for "active shooter" situations is an indication the price is too steep. And I'm sorry, but there are numerous countries where tighter restrictions on legal access reduce the levels of gun violence.

You know that perennial Onion article "'no way to prevent this,' says only nation where this regularly happens?" That's you. Instead of actually doing something, you feign helplessness.

 

[Paladin3]

The problem isn't so much the existence of the Second Amendment as the fetishization of it -- the notion that you're almost obligated to buy a gun, and that society will collapse if you're not allowed to buy a semi-auto rifle or otherwise have even the slightest increase in gun control.

I don't think anyone is so naive as to think that gun regulations will completely avoid violence, but there such a thing as deciding when a price is too high. I'm pretty sure that schools having to prepare their kids for "active shooter" situations is an indication the price is too steep. And I'm sorry, but there are numerous countries where tighter restrictions on legal access reduce the levels of gun violence.

You know that perennial Onion article "'no way to prevent this,' says only nation where this regularly happens?" That's you. Instead of actually doing something, you feign helplessness.

Actually, I refuse to be rendered helpless. Or even deprived of the ability to hunt and sport shoot unless you tell me how my surrendering my firearms will help.

I've used and owned guns responsibly since I was 10 years old. What laws have I broken? Whom have I harmed? What threat am I that I must be disarmed? Why must my legally owned and safely used property be confiscated by the government without due process? Why are you so willing to sacrifice my constitutional rights and the natural right to self-defense when you have no plan for getting the sick/evil/criminals disarmed? What do you think further gun control will do that previous gun control hasn't?

Lastly, why don't we just make murder illegal and stop all the killings??? (<---That last bit's sarcasm right there.)

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

This won't end well. The shooter today was apparently a member of the Saudi military.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1203009251326738432

This will get interesting. Shooter was Saudi national here for training.
Sheriff does a good interview.

But Iran, is the real terrorist country.

SA needs to be labelled at the terrorist nation it is and all Diplomats and Nationals expelled under close guard.

 

[Commodus]

Actually, I refuse to be rendered helpless. Or even deprived of the ability to hunt and sport shoot unless you tell me how my surrendering my firearms will help.

I've used and owned guns responsibly since I was 10 years old. What laws have I broken? Whom have I harmed? What threat am I that I must be disarmed? Why must my legally owned and safely used property be confiscated by the government without due process? Why are you so willing to sacrifice my constitutional rights and the natural right to self-defense when you have no plan for getting the sick/evil/criminals disarmed? What do you think further gun control will do that previous gun control hasn't?

Lastly, why don't we just make murder illegal and stop all the killings??? (<---That last bit's sarcasm right there.)

I notice how you didn't really address my points and instead launched into a straw man attack on positions I never said I held. You know, for someone who claims he won't be rendered helpless, you sure are spineless.

I did not call for complete disarmament. I did not call for mass confiscation (how the US would handle getting semi-auto rifles off the streets is a complex matter). And disarming those who shouldn't have guns at all is equally tricky. But unlike you, I believe we should actually explore those complex solutions, rather than immediately suppressing all talk of them.

Further gun control would reduce the ease of access to guns for people who shouldn't have them and reduce the lethality of those guns that are sold. More importantly, it would help shift the US toward a culture that actually treats guns as serious responsibilities. Right now, the US hands out guns like candy... and then wonders why mass shootings happen so often.

The funny thing is that you proved one of my key points: that American gun culture is fetishized. You've been groomed to be so hypersensitive to gun control that the mere whiff of tougher legislation sends you into a frenzy. You leap from what I'm really arguing (that we should explore some form of tougher gun control) to a "he wants to take away all my guns and get me killed, that tyrannic commie fascist" tirade.

 

[mikeymikec]

Pretty sure this didn't have much to do with 2A since the offender is military. It anything, 2A lets us defend against a rampaging military wacko who would try to subjugate otherwise-defenseless civilians.

Jumping to your tired attempt at a dismissive insult is just lazy and embarrassing.

According to the article, the guy was on the base for flight training, which unless the flight training also included how to fire a pistol while piloting a plane, and acknowledging the other bit in the article that said that only security forces on the base are allowed to carry firearms, I'm not sure how many legs are left standing for your "military" argument. Perhaps if the firearm was stolen from the base then that would make 2A irrelevant in this case, but I'd assume that base security of firearms is tight enough to warrant the article mentioning it, at which point if a firearm is easier to acquire outside the base then surely that's what the shooter would do.

I'm not sure which bit you consider to be a "dismissive insult", but hey ho.

Re-reading the article, admittedly it paints a confusing picture:

The shooter was identified as Mohammed Alshamrani, a Saudi national and member of the country's air force who was in the U.S. for flight training, law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation told ABC News. Investigators are trying to determine whether the shooting was terror-related, the officials said.

A handgun was identified as the weapon used by the suspect. Only security forces are allowed to carry weapons on the base, according to Capt. Timothy Kinsella, commanding officer at NAS Pensacola.

The suspected shooter opened fire on shipyard personnel with his M4 service rifle and then used his M9 service pistol to shoot himself, officials said.

I count three contradictions right off the bat:

1 - a handgun was identified as the weapon used - the suspected shooter opened fire... with his M4 service rifle then used his M9 service pistol

2 - he's a foreign visitor to the base for flight training with his own service RIFLE and PISTOL? How the hell did he get those in the country? Or would a foreign visitor really be issued both let alone one by the base? Only security forces are allowed to carry weapons on the base?

CNN and BBC don't give much in the way of details on these points.

 

[BoomerD]

But Iran, is the real terrorist country.

Just look at all the Iranians who hijacked planes on 9-11 and flew them into buildings...