Another Ebay tragedy. This time I am the victim. :)

[OutHouse]

suppose i should stop emailing him before he really *has* a case for harrassment


that might be a wise thing to do.

 

[Phokus]

Someone who looks like Trailer Trash calling someone Trailer Trash? LOL too funny.

 

[ravanux]

You could get over it and get some new glass. I mean, they didn't stop selling glass did they?

 

[damac]

i am baffled after reading this thread that 90+% of your think this guy is in the wrong?


1. you are a user of ebay first and agreed to obide by their terms and conditions yes? read them

2. the guy offering 100% guaranteed satisfaction has to do with the product. you breaking it or getting broke may make you unsatisfied but has nothing to do with this type of guarantee. If you buy something and it breaks and is past warranty with the manufacturer do you cry cause it broke and take it back to your retailer to get another new on or store credit? It would be a never ending cycle then.

3. If anything their was a lack of specific terms outlined on both parts. For example if he took the money and couldn't arrange shipment options but outlined what he does in these cases then you would know. BUT on the other hand if he didn't mention insurance when shipping something what makes you think hes going to pay for it or use it at all? You are just as guilty when it comes to this. You didn't ask ahead of time to arrange shipping options but now cry wolf cause it got broke in the mail.

4. I sell on ebay like this and just state what im selling and how I ship. If its not listed don't assume anything. ebays terms tell you this and even warn you all over the place to contact the seller if you have any questions. You make sellers like him and me to be thieves but in reality most of us just ship regular to save money and assume our packages aren't one of those few % that get lost. Even when you do insure items its not as simple as package lost, amount insured is handed over in cash. sometimes they hold you up and take weeks to send out money and even dispute your amount you insured it for. Maybe everybody should insure their packages but a ton of people dont, even on this forums for sale/trade forum.




I don't mean any disrespect to any parties here but most people in this thread don't seem to be thinking logically at all.

 

[tm37]

<< I don't mean any disrespect to any parties here but most people in this thread don't seem to be thinking logically at all. >>



Irational thought BY ATOT!:Q

I'm shocked, stupified, and alarmed. It's an OUTRAGE!

It is his responsibilty to insure the package gets to the customer in good shape! If insurance is something he will not pay that is something he should put in the item desciption. Like $9.99 shipping (additional for insurance)

And this has happened before and yet he failed to add that line (three words mind you). His tone is very defencive and it would appear that he has OTHER issues!

 

[swayinOtis]

i guess i am just used to giving my money to reputable dealers online who take responsibility for shipping damages. do you think for a minute any online retailer would not take responsibility for an item damaged in shipping? would buy.com to k-mart not replace the broken item? if you think no, then you're just the type of person on ebay i want to avoid.

i will take responsibility for assuming too much. i assumed as a business man he would care about satisfying his customers. i was wrong.

the thing that just floored me was when he told me he would leave me negative feedback if i left him negative feedback. doesn't that crack anyone else up? how can someone get negative feedback for paying for an item they bought? he got paid! he got my money! negative if you pay with a rubber check or a stolen card, but that's not what happened. he just threatened me with that out of spite and because he wanted to intimidate me. he's an idiot and a bully. i think most of us see that.

 

[badluck]

It is not the sellers responsiblity to add insurance into the shipping costs. That is an option that the buyer can pay for.

Rarely do eBay sellers refund money for items damaged in shipping. I ask all customers to pay for insurance so we don't have these problems. If he didn't even offer it to you, than he dropped the ball. You dropped the ball by not asking for it as well.

Oh well, at least you only lost $30......

 

[Jzero]

<< i will take responsibility for assuming too much. i assumed as a business man he would care about satisfying his customers. i was wrong. >>


These are NOT ordinary business people. Most of the time they are people who figured they could make a buck quick and didn't think they'd have to actually deal with customer issues. This is the same problem that befalls mom-and-pop computer joints who have horrendous tech support....
My theory is that anytime you go to the seller with an issue, expect nothing in the way of help or assistance. If the seller tells you to sod off, it's what you expected; if he's helpful, you'll be doubly pleased.



<< the thing that just floored me was when he told me he would leave me negative feedback if i left him negative feedback. doesn't that crack anyone else up? how can someone get negative feedback for paying for an item they bought? he got paid! he got my money! negative if you pay with a rubber check or a stolen card, but that's not what happened. he just threatened me with that out of spite and because he wanted to intimidate me. he's an idiot and a bully. i think most of us see that. >>

Using "feedback extortion" is pretty lame. You held up your end of the deal in paying for the item, as you said. In fact, many more reputable sellers leave positive feedback upon receiving payment. For these people, I try to afford them the same courtesy and leave feedback as soon as I feel they've held up their side--if I buy an item as-is, I leave feedback upon receiving it, wihtout even bothering to try it. If there's a guarantee, once I see it works properly, I feedback.

Oh well....this guy sounds like he has some issues. Next time you'll know to be more specific about getting insurance.

 

[damac]

no dood im glad he will give you a negative feedback. Its because you want everything handed to you and are being unfair and are looking to give him negative feedback in the first place maliciously, that he will fire back with 1.


You guys that have a problem with him can't seem to get it through your thick skulls that YOU also agree to the terms and conditions of using ebay when you signed up. They warn you all over the place, and it should be common sense, to ASK the seller your questions BEFORE you bid!


The guy didn't take your money and run. I sell the same way this guy does and I haven't had a problem since I started. look at my profile.
http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=j-sonline


the only time I have arranged insurance is when somebody spoke up. I am not trying to get away with anything or rip anybody off. If they agree to the terms of sale then im ok with it. millions of people are doing this everyday with ups, fedex, etc. You are taking a risk with any service of course. IF you are concerned with getting your item and are an ebay user you need to read the rules you agreed to, and if you want insurance and they say nothing of it, ask them or don't buy!




What angers me about your post is rather than learning a valuable lesson you are whining and draggin it out and people are using it as some slam campaign against ebay. If people would read and follow the rules and if your honest things mostly work out. Of course their are rotten apples and I don't think the seller your talking about is one of them.

 

[tm37]

just sent this. Lets see how he responds

Is he going to give me a honest reply or is he going to attack me.

This guy really needs to work on his people skills!




<< I there was some issue with the packing and shipping of an item sold to a member of an Internet community that I belong to. I have read your response sent to another member that was in my opinion very unbiased and mearly asking WHY? While your actions may in fact make you feel more empowered and threatening with lawsuits may seem cool, these actions are not really Lawsuit worthy. The Internet is a powerful tool that allows some of us to communicate with others that share our interests around the world. It also allows for us to share our personal experiences with each other. No one has (to my knowledge) done anything illegal. You had an opportunity to come of as a good seller here and perhaps make people think about purchasing from you! Instead with your rude and boorish behavior you have Alienated around 80000 member of that community.

This was posted by another user that wanted to know what the deal was, as we had heard only one side of the story.

My email to him:

> I've got a friend who recently bought a framed print. It arrived broken.
> From what he told me, you are refusing to fix it and are not standing by
> your guarantee of "All of Our Items Are Guaranteed!". Obviously, it arrived
> broken and that would fall under your guarantee, would it not? He said that
> you told him no because he didn't get insurance. Did you explicitly offer
> him insurance and he turned it down? If not, you are responsible for
> getting it to him in one piece. If it doesn't arrive in good condition, then
> you need to replace it or refund his money.
>
> Can you please tell your side of the story?
>
> thanks,

xxxxx



His reply: (no kidding)

F*CK OFF ASSH*LE!!!!!!!

he made a genuine request and your response was profanity! Because when someone is willing to question you, it is always better to send profanity. Perhaps you should attempt to better express yourself and present your side of the story. Did you item description SAY insurance was an option? After looking at your other options they mearly say"Shipping will be just $9.99 in the U.S.!" You need to realize that YOU being the seller have a responsibility to inform the buyer of other options. So he sent you pay pal, why not send another email suggesting insurance? Then if he declines you are right however in this circumstance this isn't the case. you took the money and shipped.

I hope that you don't find this message harassing in any way and that perhaps you can see our side of the argument.

this was really not the appropriate response-

I see that you girls are having fun at my expense.I will be contacting the F.B.I regarding the talcum powder issue slong with the company who owns this site.Since you all had to sign up for this forum then they will have all of your information on record.I have also contacted my attorney tegarding the slanderous coments made about me and my business as well as posting my information and will take action on Monday.You are all screwed!!!! The only thing that I wish is to see you all face to face!!!Do'nt bend over for the soap!!
Nathan FitzGerald


What you did was make this just another internet argument that really didn't hurt anyone. and you joined right in throwing threats and making crude comments regarding the maturity and gender of the members of our community. I would think that in it self would hurt any argument you may have in court. >>

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

<< It is not the sellers responsiblity to add insurance into the shipping costs. >>



but it is the seller's responsibility to get a fully working product to the buyer

 

[tm37]

<< What angers me about your post is rather than learning a valuable lesson you are whining and draggin it out and people are using it as some slam campaign against ebay. If people would read and follow the rules and if your honest things mostly work out. Of course their are rotten apples and I don't think the seller your talking about is one of them. >>



Of course he should have asked THEY BOTH dropped the ball. However if someone has over 400 replies in feedback AND is running AN EBAY STOREFRONT, he has crossed the line between common seller who has no clue and INTERNET RETAILER. If you sell items all the time and they are breakable THE SELLER SHOULD OFFER insurance!

 

[Maetryx]

<< I have only responded to harrasing emails.You guys are really stupid!! >>



This isn't true. We're not all stupid. Okay, what I really meant to say is that it isn't true because he sent me an email apparently by taking it from my profile. I certainly didn't email him first.

 

[Jzero]

<<

<< It is not the sellers responsiblity to add insurance into the shipping costs. >>



but it is the seller's responsibility to get a fully working product to the buyer >>

I'm sorry but it is not reasonable to hold the seller responsible for something entirely out of his control. Weak packaging aside, the seller cannot accompany the package from the post office to the buyer's doorstep and it would be unreasonable to expect him to do so. This is the reason insurance exists on shipping.
Both parties failed in this case--Fanon should have specifically requested insurance on a breakable item and "Youreallscrewed" should have specifically put part of his $10 shipping fee towards insurance or at least asked Fanon if he wanted insurance or not. And Fanon already admits his responsibility for this.
However Fanon becomes the golden boy when the seller turns jerk.

 

[DalaiLlama]

Dude looks like he's been in jail before.

 

[raz]

<< ...ANY reason... >>



IMO, who should've asked/offered insurance isn't even an issue in this case.

 

[Dedpuhl]

I needed a good laugh...

 

[djheater]

<< Here's a link that describes this situation in detail....


...geez..... >>



I know I'm repeating myself, but it bears repeating.

 

[Lucky]

<<

<<

<< It is not the sellers responsiblity to add insurance into the shipping costs. >>



but it is the seller's responsibility to get a fully working product to the buyer >>

I'm sorry but it is not reasonable to hold the seller responsible for something entirely out of his control. Weak packaging aside, the seller cannot accompany the package from the post office to the buyer's doorstep and it would be unreasonable to expect him to do so. This is the reason insurance exists on shipping.
Both parties failed in this case--Fanon should have specifically requested insurance on a breakable item and "Youreallscrewed" should have specifically put part of his $10 shipping fee towards insurance or at least asked Fanon if he wanted insurance or not. And Fanon already admits his responsibility for this.
However Fanon becomes the golden boy when the seller turns jerk. >>





Your'e wrong. Its 100% the seller's responsibility to get it to the customer in working condition. This doesnt even look like its part time for him, he has a business setup and everything. Would you expect a replacement from buy.com if you bought a DVD player and it arrived smashed? Of course! Whether he wants to bundle it in with his shipping price (9.95) or specify that there is an extra fee (1.10, $2, etc), its his responsibility.

It IS ENTIRELY reasonable to hold the seller responsible. If he didnt buy insurance, then he was gambling. Most of the time there isnt a problem, but if there is one then then the selller needs to either collect on insurance or straight up pay out.

It would have been smart for fanon to ask about insurance, but thats about as far as it goes.

 

[edfcmc]

<<

<<

<< It is not the sellers responsiblity to add insurance into the shipping costs. >>



but it is the seller's responsibility to get a fully working product to the buyer >>

I'm sorry but it is not reasonable to hold the seller responsible for something entirely out of his control. Weak packaging aside, the seller cannot accompany the package from the post office to the buyer's doorstep and it would be unreasonable to expect him to do so. This is the reason insurance exists on shipping.
Both parties failed in this case--Fanon should have specifically requested insurance on a breakable item and "Youreallscrewed" should have specifically put part of his $10 shipping fee towards insurance or at least asked Fanon if he wanted insurance or not. And Fanon already admits his responsibility for this.
However Fanon becomes the golden boy when the seller turns jerk. >>



In most states the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) places conditions on who bears the risk of loss for the sale of goods. THat is why most "goods" merchants use the term FOB with special terms or allocate the risk of loss to the buyer in terms and conditions in there sale literature. There are numerous provisions in the UCC that could apply. for example take a look here where the risk of loss stays with seller :

"§ 2-327. Special Incidents of Sale on Approval and Sale or Return.
(1) Under a sale on approval unless otherwise agreed

(a) although the goods are identified to the contract the risk of loss and the title do not pass to the buyer until acceptance; and
(b) use of the goods consistent with the purpose of trial is not acceptance but failure seasonably to notify the seller of election to return the goods is acceptance, and if the goods conform to the contract acceptance of any part is acceptance of the whole; and
(c) after due notification of election to return, the return is at the seller's risk and expense but a merchant buyer must follow any reasonable instructions.
(2) Under a sale or return unless otherwise agreed

(a) the option to return extends to the whole or any commercial unit of the goods while in substantially their original condition, but must be exercised seasonably; and
(b) the return is at the buyer's risk and expense."


The information presented has been offered for general informational purposes only. The contents are not to be construed as legal advice.

 

[badluck]

edit...

 

[Jzero]

<< Your'e wrong. Its 100% the seller's responsibility to get it to the customer in working condition. This doesnt even look like its part time for him, he has a business setup and everything. Would you expect a replacement from buy.com if you bought a DVD player and it arrived smashed? Of course! Whether he wants to bundle it in with his shipping price (9.95) or specify that there is an extra fee (1.10, $2, etc), its his responsibility. >>


Ethically, perhaps. Legally? That could go either way. You could probably convince a small-claims judge on any given day to rule in your favor, but you'd probably lose the ruling with equal frequency. The seller definitely did what was required of him up until he started being rude. I've never been offered insurance in 30 Ebay transactions...the buyer needs to know to request insurance if he so desires it.

The reason that one can expect a replacement from buy.com is because buy.com is a bonded corporation with inventory, insurance of its own, and vendor agreements, not to mention enough financial padding to be able to hand out a certain number of replacements and still stay in business.
At the end of the day, no matter how legitimate this guy's business looks, you're still just dealing with a single private person and you just can't make the same expectations. If you want that kind of security, Ebay just ain't the place to be.

 

[Option1]

I have to laugh at those of you carrying on about the seller having "issues". You take part in a thread that basically flames the hell out of the guy, not to mention emailing insults to him. He comes in and gives some of what he got back and you all run around screaming like a bunch of grade school children about his hairstyle, accuse him of being in jail, etc, etc, etc. Some of you need mirrors and just a little bit more maturity.

That being said I do believe he might have been better served giving better customer service in the first place.

However as for this being an "Ebay tragedy" as titled, then if having to fork out a couple of bucks for a piece of broken glass is a tragedy then gawd help you when you encounter a truly serious problem in life or get ripped off in a major way. Can you say drama queen?

Neil

 

[swayinOtis]

<<
Of course he should have asked THEY BOTH dropped the ball. However if someone has over 400 replies in feedback AND is running AN EBAY STOREFRONT, he has crossed the line between common seller who has no clue and INTERNET RETAILER. If you sell items all the time and they are breakable THE SELLER SHOULD OFFER insurance! >>



The fact that he had an Ebay store and lots of feebback influenced my buying decision, and I assumed he would stand by his motto of 100% customer satisfaction. The one negative feedback he had was from someone who wasn't even registered, so I dismissed it. I thought he was professional. I was wrong.

Like I said earlier, I am not going to sweat the $5 or whatever it will take to fix the glass. I was just floored by how unprofessional the guy was.

 

[StageLeft]

<< this is why i dont use egay >>



Of course for every bad ebay there is a hundred good ones but all I hear is bad stuff here!

Trading forum is ok. Heatware is nice