Another European Myth Bites The Dust

[Jimbo]

Comparison Graph Of Arms Sales To Iraq.

Transfers of major conventional weapons to Iraq 1973 - 2002

 

[Feldenak]

Rather interesting....definately food for thought.

 

[LH]

Im confused? What exactly does this prove? Nothing. It doesnt take into account illegal arms deals from 1991-2002.

 

[Iwentsouth]

Originally posted by: LH
Im confused? What exactly does this prove? Nothing. It doesnt take into account illegal arms deals from 1991-2002.

People are always claiming the US armed Iraq.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: LH
Im confused? What exactly does this prove? Nothing. It doesnt take into account illegal arms deals from 1991-2002.

So the French % should be higher?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: LH
Im confused? What exactly does this prove? Nothing. It doesnt take into account illegal arms deals from 1991-2002.

Please list them and cite your source.

 

[jjones]

LOL, I love the notes about the UNSC members at the bottom of the graph.

 

[308nato]

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: LH
Im confused? What exactly does this prove? Nothing. It doesnt take into account illegal arms deals from 1991-2002.

So the French % should be higher?

Heh.

 

[tcsenter]

Hmm, I can't tell if the 'peaceful nations' and 'bloodthirsty warmongers' comment at the bottom is tongue-in-cheek or if they're serious?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Hmm, I can't tell if the 'peaceful nations' and 'bloodthirsty warmongers' comment at the bottom is tongue-in-cheek or if they're serious?

tongue-in-cheek!

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Hmm, I can't tell if the 'peaceful nations' and 'bloodthirsty warmongers' comment at the bottom is tongue-in-cheek or if they're serious?

It should be obvious... look at the colors of the "peaceful nations" on the graph. They're #1, 2, and 3 in terms of exports of arms to Iraq.

 

[Morph]

Hmm, nice comments at the bottom. Do ya think whomever compiled this list has an agenda? Really makes me suspect the accuracy of these numbers. If they had presented the data in an objective. non-biased way I'd be much moreinclined to believe the figures.

 

[NightTrain]

No you wouldn't.

His source is linked.

 

[andreasl]

Not surprising at all. You just have to look at what equipment the Iraqi military uses. Their army is almost 100% former soviet equipment. Their airforce is a mix between soviet, french and chinese planes and choppers. They never had much of a navy, but they do have some SSM missiles and launchers to this day (that sea-skimmer missile that struck Kuwait was a Silkworm anti-shipping missile with chinese origin).

 

[HappyGamer2]

germany sold them more than that, sure they maybe didn't sell them actually arms but they sold them technology, etc that can be used to make WMD

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Morph
Hmm, nice comments at the bottom. Do ya think whomever compiled this list has an agenda? Really makes me suspect the accuracy of these numbers. If they had presented the data in an objective. non-biased way I'd be much moreinclined to believe the figures.

Yeah - the agenda was to show the truth about who has actually been "arming Saddam".

Keep not trying though - you may just win the award that was given out a few minutes ago if you keep it up

CkG

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Morph
Hmm, nice comments at the bottom. Do ya think whomever compiled this list has an agenda? Really makes me suspect the accuracy of these numbers. If they had presented the data in an objective. non-biased way I'd be much moreinclined to believe the figures.

The source for the data and graph is from SIPRI.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF SIPRI

In 1964, Prime Minister Tage Erlander of Sweden put forward the idea of establishing a peace research institute to commemorate Sweden's 150 years of unbroken peace.

A Swedish Royal Commission chaired by Ambassador Alva Myrdal proposed in its 1966 report to establish an institute, later named the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, SIPRI. The Institute's research should seek to contribute to 'the understanding of the preconditions for a stable peace and for peaceful solutions of international conflicts' and the Commission recommended that research be concentrated on armaments, their limitation and reduction, and arms control. The Commission also recommended that SIPRI work be of 'an applied research character directed towards practical-political questions [which] should be carried on in a constant interchange with research of a more theoretical kind'.

SIPRI has built its reputation and standing on competence, professional skills, and the collection of hard data and precise facts, rendering accessible impartial information on weapon developments, arms transfers and production, military expenditure, as well as on arms limitations, reductions and disarmament. The task of the Institute is to conduct 'scientific research on questions of conflict and cooperation of importance for international peace and security with the aim of contributing to an understanding of the conditions for peaceful solution of international conflicts and for a stable peace'.

The Swedish Parliament decided that the Institute be established on 1 July 1966 with the legal status of an independent foundation. All SIPRI research is based exclusively on open sources.

 

[Fencer128]

I always thought the beef wasn't with the "conventional weapons" as has already pointed out they are predominantly ex-Soviet, Chinese and French. What gets asked about the US is in what way did they help his WMD program - particularly with respect to chemical weapons.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Morph]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
I always thought the beef wasn't with the "conventional weapons" as has already pointed out they are predominantly ex-Soviet, Chinese and French. What gets asked about the US is in what way did they help his WMD program - particularly with respect to chemical weapons.

Cheers,

Andy

That's right, every country in the world has the right to arm themselves with conventional weapons. I mean, you never know when the reigning superpower in going to decide to INVADE you, right?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Morph

That's right, every country in the world has the right to arm themselves with conventional weapons. I mean, you never know when the reigning superpower in going to decide to INVADE you, right?

Yeah...like rogue dictators who break cease-fire agreements and countless UN resolutions. No cause for forced disarmament there....

 

[Morph]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Morph

That's right, every country in the world has the right to arm themselves with conventional weapons. I mean, you never know when the reigning superpower in going to decide to INVADE you, right?

Yeah...like rogue dictators who break cease-fire agreements and countless UN resolutions. No cause for forced disarmament there....

Ok, so you think that they should have been required to turn over not only their supposed "WMD", but also all their conventional arms? Then what happens when they do that and Bush says, nuh-uh, that's not good enough, we're taking you down anyway. Then they are forced to throw rocks at us to defend their nation.

You know what, that's a great new war tactic the US can use from now on. We can threaten a country with war unless they hand over all their weapons. Then when the country complies out of fear, we find some other reason to invade them now that they are defenseless.

 

[tcsenter]

It should be obvious... look at the colors of the "peaceful nations" on the graph. They're #1, 2, and 3 in terms of exports of arms to Iraq.

Are the colors 'maroon' and 'lime green' supposed to indicate 'good' and 'bad', or something? I don't see the significance of the colors.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

It should be obvious... look at the colors of the "peaceful nations" on the graph. They're #1, 2, and 3 in terms of exports of arms to Iraq.

Are the colors 'maroon' and 'lime green' supposed to indicate 'good' and 'bad', or something? I don't see the significance of the colors.

No. If you look at the key at the bottom, the countries that are colored maroon are listed as "peaceful nations", yet when you look at the maroon colored bars on the graph, you see that they're the 3 biggest exporters of arms to Iraq.

 

[Fencer128]

I still think this doesn't answer a "european myth". People say that the US aided Saddam by helping him with the technology needed to develop his chemical weapons program back in the 80's. This is the "myth"/non-"myth" that needs to be explained. It doesn't concern conventional weapons sales IMHO.

Andy

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
I still think this doesn't answer a "european myth". People say that the US aided Saddam by helping him with the technology needed to develop his chemical weapons program back in the 80's. This is the "myth"/non-"myth" that needs to be explained. It doesn't concern conventional weapons sales IMHO.

Andy

My point exactly.