Another Malaysian airplane down

[-slash-]

You really think that Obama should start a major war with Russia (which neither he nor Putin would actually fight) to prove he's not scared? He's a six foot tall black man who happens to be POTUS - surely he's above sacrificing others in a dick measuring contest.

And I remind you that he DID move F-117s into theater, an unmistakable sign that if necessary, he was willing to stop further Russian aggression with military force. Considering that Ukraine would be totally devastated in a war between Russia and America, surely that's enough of a response. It appeared to work anyway.

No I do not advocate a war, lets make that clear to start.

I do have a problem with how the White House has handled the situation. Obama has made sanctions, the peaceful alternative to war. He has only recently stepped up and enforced more drastic sanctions which warranted a response from Putin that they will retaliate. He has not pushed for the EU to enforce harder sanctions. On top of it all what sanctions he has pushed forward have been laughed off by Putin.

Putin has shown in the past three years he is not past the Cold War and is attempting to establish Russia as the worlds superpower. The guy is off his rocker and has had little response to current actions. He is pushing forth on an American backed country. Ukraines, the EU's, UN's, and Americas efforts have been ignored. At some point you have to stop playing around and play hard ball. Whether that is increased military aid to Ukraine, stricter sanctions despite economic downfall, or strategic military strikes, something more than what is currently being done needs to happen.

 

[senseamp]

No I do not advocate a war, lets make that clear to start.

I do have a problem with how the White House has handled the situation. Obama has made sanctions, the peaceful alternative to war. He has only recently stepped up and enforced more drastic sanctions which warranted a response from Putin that they will retaliate. He has not pushed for the EU to enforce harder sanctions. On top of it all what sanctions he has pushed forward have been laughed off by Putin.

Putin has shown in the past three years he is not past the Cold War and is attempting to establish Russia as the worlds superpower. The guy is off his rocker and has had little response to current actions. He is pushing forth on an American backed country. Ukraines, the EU's, UN's, and Americas efforts have been ignored. At some point you have to stop playing around and play hard ball. Whether that is increased military aid to Ukraine, stricter sanctions despite economic downfall, or strategic military strikes, something more than what is currently being done needs to happen.

This would lead to WW3. Are you going to man up to fight in it, or just play chicken-hawk on the forums?

 

[werepossum]

We can determine that it did indeed come from Russian anti-air weapons.
We can strengthen world resolve to keep or strengthen sanctions against Russia.
We can hold firm for the protection of Ukraine until we can work out a long term agreement.

Basically, this is a ribbon to stick on our negotiating badge in Eastern Europe.

Rather a bloody ribbon, dude.

No I do not advocate a war, lets make that clear to start.

I do have a problem with how the White House has handled the situation. Obama has made sanctions, the peaceful alternative to war. He has only recently stepped up and enforced more drastic sanctions which warranted a response from Putin that they will retaliate. He has not pushed for the EU to enforce harder sanctions. On top of it all what sanctions he has pushed forward have been laughed off by Putin.

Putin has shown in the past three years he is not past the Cold War and is attempting to establish Russia as the worlds superpower. The guy is off his rocker and has had little response to current actions. He is pushing forth on an American backed country. Ukraines, the EU's, UN's, and Americas efforts have been ignored. At some point you have to stop playing around and play hard ball. Whether that is increased military aid to Ukraine, stricter sanctions despite economic downfall, or strategic military strikes, something more than what is currently being done needs to happen.

I'm not sure how much Obama is pressuring the EU. Merkel is taking the lead, and Merkel is mighty pissed with Obama right now over us spying on her personal cell phone. As far as strategic military strikes, that IS war, and with America striking Russian targets we could very quickly find ourselves in a major conflict. As for the UN, it's useless. Anything in the UN will be vetoed by Russia if not China.

But I'll give you the last word as I don't want to make this thread about Obama - especially if I'm having to defend him.

 

[Pantoot]

reports that the Russians have found the black box. I'm sure that investigation will show no Russian involment

Out of curiosity, how could the blackbox confirm or deny Russian involvement?
Maybe one of the pilots might say, hey look there is a Russian down there pointing a missile at me?

 

[-slash-]

This would lead to WW3. Are you going to man up to fight in it, or just play chicken-hawk on the forums?

I enlisted in 2007 and was held out due to "possible" side effects from a prescription medication I took. Major bummer. If asked I would gladly go.

 

[-slash-]

Rather a bloody ribbon, dude.


I'm not sure how much Obama is pressuring the EU. Merkel is taking the lead, and Merkel is mighty pissed with Obama right now over us spying on her personal cell phone. As far as strategic military strikes, that IS war, and with America striking Russian targets we could very quickly find ourselves in a major conflict. As for the UN, it's useless. Anything in the UN will be vetoed by Russia if not China.

But I'll give you the last word as I don't want to make this thread about Obama - especially if I'm having to defend him.

:biggrin:

 

[senseamp]

I enlisted in 2007 and was held out due to "possible" side effects from a prescription medication I took. Major bummer. If asked I would gladly go.

Then go, I am sure the Ukrainan paramilitaries don't care about your side effects or whatevs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

 

[Jaskalas]

Rather a bloody ribbon, dude.

Look to the body counts in other topics where people score political points. These are the cards we are dealt, and no one wants to fold. Russian military weapons striking civilians is a card the plays well with our Allies. It highlights the danger a violent Russia poses to the world. A subject people may have thought belonged in the past.

This is political capital, and President Obama would do well to use it.

 

[3DVagabond]

Assumption of risk.

You make the choice to use air travel to get from place to place. Air travel always has associated risks. If you do not like the policies and practices of a private corporation, do not use them. Simple as that. Every time you travel you are putting your life in the hands of the chosen airline company and its employees. It is your choice to do so. Talk about living in a bubble

Do I think they should have been flying over said airspace, no. That is their prerogative though, just as it is yours to use said airlines.

If people were a smart as you give them credit for, we wouldn't need warning labels all over everything. People do not take responsibility for their own actions. Somewhere in America there's a family member of someone lost on that plane who's looking to see who they can sue.

I will NEVER fly Malaysian Air if I can help it

Unless they have a super saver. People buy the cheapest ticket they can get their hands on.

You really think that Obama should start a major war with Russia (which neither he nor Putin would actually fight) to prove he's not scared? He's a six foot tall black man who happens to be POTUS - surely he's above sacrificing others in a dick measuring contest.

And I remind you that he DID move F-117s into theater, an unmistakable sign that if necessary, he was willing to stop further Russian aggression with military force. Considering that Ukraine would be totally devastated in a war between Russia and America, surely that's enough of a response. It appeared to work anyway.

Nobody is advocating a major war with Russia. Try disputing what was actually said instead of claiming a position for your opponent that they never took.

Look to the body counts in other topics where people score political points. These are the cards we are dealt, and no one wants to fold. Russian military weapons striking civilians is a card the plays well with our Allies. It highlights the danger a violent Russia poses to the world. A subject people may have thought belonged in the past.

This is political capital, and President Obama would do well to use it.

Never let a crisis go to waste, eh?

 

[Brovane]

You really think that Obama should start a major war with Russia (which neither he nor Putin would actually fight) to prove he's not scared? He's a six foot tall black man who happens to be POTUS - surely he's above sacrificing others in a dick measuring contest.

And I remind you that he DID move F-117s into theater, an unmistakable sign that if necessary, he was willing to stop further Russian aggression with military force. Considering that Ukraine would be totally devastated in a war between Russia and America, surely that's enough of a response. It appeared to work anyway.

How would he move F-117's in the theater when this airplane has been retired for several years?

 

[Jaskalas]

Never let a crisis go to waste, eh?

It's not a crisis, just some more people killed by Russian violence.

And who the hell would tell our President not to use this as an opportunity? Granted, it depends on what he'd do with it, but I've already outlined what should be done.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i bet the us gov shot this plane down in order to start a war with russia

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Out of curiosity, how could the blackbox confirm or deny Russian involvement?
Maybe one of the pilots might say, hey look there is a Russian down there pointing a missile at me?

It would confirm there was not a mechanical failure or fire on the plan, thus making it harder to deny.

 

[sportage]

Old gramps john McCain already blowing the war smoke up everyone's ass over this.
Hey john... We can't war over this. We've sent all our troops to fight 10 year olds crossing the US border per your request.
Remember ??? Gramps...?

 

[Zorba]

Well color me shocked, Putin blames Ukraine: http://www.smh.com.au/world/vladimir-putin-blames-ukraine-for-mh17-tragedy-20140718-zua9b.html

 

[MongGrel]

i bet the us gov shot this plane down in order to start a war with russia

Not even a lame troll attempt.

Cya, your trollage is weak.

 

[MongGrel]

It would confirm there was not a mechanical failure or fire on the plan, thus making it harder to deny.

I'm pretty sure most people know it wasn't mechanical at this point.

 

[piasabird]

I understand why Russians would shoot down this plane. It scares off people who might want to send help or supplies to this region. Russia just wants to intimidate outsiders from interfering in their business. This is how Tyranny works, through fear and oppression.

 

[D-Man]

Has Issa figured out how to blame Obama for this yet?

No Issa cannot find Obama. Our President is somewhere out on the Campaign Trail as I type this.

 

[KMFJD]

i bet the us gov shot this plane down in order to start a war with russia

295 innocent people lost their lives and you're trolling....please run in front of a high speed train.

 

[davmat787]

Yeah because that totally didn't happen. You conservatives live in a bubble.

It's the fact that you and a few others view all conservatives in a monolithic fashion. You take the worst from a few and assume the viewpoint is shared among all conservatives.

But doing so just makes it easier to hate and rage on right?

 

[-slash-]

Then go, I am sure the Ukrainan paramilitaries don't care about your side effects or whatevs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Because that is relevant how? I would gladly serve in the US military if it came to it.

 

[-slash-]

Old gramps john McCain already blowing the war smoke up everyone's ass over this.
Hey john... We can't war over this. We've sent all our troops to fight 10 year olds crossing the US border per your request.
Remember ??? Gramps...?

Im sure the entire armed services is down there. That explains all the illegal immigrants still flowing over the border. What an off base asinine statement.

 

[Abwx]

This would lead to WW3. Are you going to man up to fight in it, or just play chicken-hawk on the forums?

He surely did some extending training on...Call of Duty...

He found that he wouldnt be of great help, it was so easy.

 

[Oric]

Guys, please look at a map before posting comments here