Another Radeon HD 2900XT review

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Anyway, anyone notice Tweaktown already has catalyst 7.6 results up too? Seems like there was basically no improvement... meh

Seems most of the improvements were in source games and crossfire.

 

[tuteja1986]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Tuteja1986.. Are you trying to be the Gstanfor of the red site? (which is also green now, damnit! LOL)

Seriously... Theres only one admitted fanboy in this thread and he didnt even show his bias, so there was no need for that... I dont know about the AA quality, but I havent seen anyone else say the AMD card has better quality, actually its more like the opposite...

Anyway, anyone notice Tweaktown already has catalyst 7.6 results up too? Seems like there was basically no improvement... meh</end quote></div>

1st : I said ATI AF mode is terrible.. it hasn't been updated since R520/R580.
2nd : I am not a blind person like Wreckage.. He never backs up his statement with facts. I don't link to stupid website review from Hardocp like someone does, i like to link to only respectable review website like firingsquad , computerbase.. ect and i bet you don't even know computerbase.
3rd : Its not my problem that you don't read full review where they clearly state ATI AA mode is better than Nvidia AA mode.
4th : your statment like this : "Tweaktown already has catalyst 7.6 results up too? Seems like there was basically no improvement... meh" >> makes you sound like Nvidia fanboy because their is improvement and you fail to see them.
5th : "Theres only one admitted fanboy in this thread and he didnt even show his bias" Are you kidding ... that fanboy said "With AA enabled the HD2900 compares with the GTS320 with lesser image quality. " which says it all.
6th : Nvidia fanboy in this forum far exceed of ATI fanboy. So maybe thats why you haven't heard anything good about ATI 2900XT or your just ignorant.
7th : I own a 8800GTX

Again !! You will be happy when ATI reduces its AA quality to Nvidia standards to obtain better FPS to win the win the benchmark.

 

[apoppin]

Again !! You will be happy when ATI reduces its AA quality to Nvidia standards to obtain better FPS to win the win the benchmark.

i*need* to see this for myself ... wait

... i will see this for myself ... Friday



and IF ATi's x1950p/xt have decent IQ,

THEN the HD2900xt's is better ... it is THAT noticeable

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
blah, blah, blah.

I don't see how firingsquad & computerbase are any better than Hardocp.

The HD2900s AA looks blurry (from the screenshots I have seen) and does reduce the performance in many cases to GTS320 levels. Sometimes even 1950XT levels.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: tuteja1986
blah, blah, blah.
</end quote></div>

I don't see how firingsquad & computerbase are any better than Hardocp.

The HD2900s AA looks blurry (from the screenshots I have seen) and does reduce the performance in many cases to GTS320 levels. Sometimes even 1950XT levels.

Wreckage i feel pity for you !!

Read my top post again.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Wreckage i feel pity for you !!

More like envy.

Read my top post again.

I did and it has nothing to do with the crap you posted after that.

 

[Matt2]

Looks like 2900XT is going to be a good fit for me at 1920x1200. I was pleasantly surprised by the scores it put up, but of course most of those were without AA and AF.

I am troubled to see that 2900XT spanks the GTS in all the games without AA or AF, but loses every single benchmark to the GTS when AA and AF are enabled. My how the tables have turned...

I'm also a little peeved that they didnt review STALKER since I am sitting on this game and waiting till I have a decent video card to play it. Clearly performance is still broken in this game for 2900XT and Tweaktown didnt want to put a blemish on what was a positive review for the card.

Now if Best Buy would just get this damn card in stock...

 

[apoppin]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Wreckage
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: tuteja1986
blah, blah, blah.
</end quote></div>

I don't see how firingsquad & computerbase are any better than Hardocp.

The HD2900s AA looks blurry (from the screenshots I have seen) and does reduce the performance in many cases to GTS320 levels. Sometimes even 1950XT levels.</end quote></div>

those are old reviews with old drivers and HardOCP is pro-nvidia

the IQ looks way better than my x1950p and there is no AA "blurriness" from actually playing the games and running the demos ..

when the HD2900XT's performance drops to x1900 levels it IS a driver issue ... that is pretty damn obvious from having the card

ANYway, how DO we test IQ ... that looks to be the most difficult and subjective part of reviewing a card and conveying it to the reader ... far harder than "noise levels" and more like comparing the "sound" of audio components

and Matt2, i don't intend to bench STALKER either - IF is is *worse* than my x1950p

why even bother? ..

 

[soybeast]

You guys make the video card forum sad. Must you pollute it with your garbage, slanted chatter to justify your purchase? Or are some of you on ati or nvidias payroll? Either way it's clear you lack some dignity and respect for this forum. Be gone

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Tuteja1986.. Are you trying to be the Gstanfor of the red site? (which is also green now, damnit! LOL)

Seriously... Theres only one admitted fanboy in this thread and he didnt even show his bias, so there was no need for that... I dont know about the AA quality, but I havent seen anyone else say the AMD card has better quality, actually its more like the opposite...

Anyway, anyone notice Tweaktown already has catalyst 7.6 results up too? Seems like there was basically no improvement... meh</end quote></div>

1st : I said ATI AF mode is terrible.. it hasn't been updated since R520/R580.

Is not terrible, nVidia's AF implementation is better, but the ATI's AF is nowhere to be terrible. After all the difference is not that much and in gaming the difference is no noticeable unless if you stare at a 57in wide screen monitor all day using a magnifying glass.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: tuteja1986
blah, blah, blah.
</end quote></div>

I don't see how firingsquad & computerbase are any better than Hardocp.

The HD2900s AA looks blurry (from the screenshots I have seen) and does reduce the performance in many cases to GTS320 levels. Sometimes even 1950XT levels.

Using standard FSAA the image quality is impeccable, if you use those custom filters like Wide Tent and stuff, will look a bit blurry cause it's based on a pixel shader filter, pretty much like the one that was implemented originally in G.R.A.W. to compensate the lack of FSAA in the game because of the incompatability of the FSAA and a deferred rendering based engine. During time it can be perfected through the driver.

And bear in mind that the Radeon HD is brand new architecture based on VLIW, needs driver optimization to spread it's wings, the GeForce 8 needs little optimization due to the simplicity of the scalar based universal shaders and the GeForce 8 has been out quite a while.

 

[ronnn]

Certainly not the best review, but the power, heat and noise stuff was interesting.

 

[the Chase]

Originally posted by: soybeast
You guys make the video card forum sad. Must you pollute it with your garbage, slanted chatter to justify your purchase? Or are some of you on ati or nvidias payroll? Either way it's clear you lack some dignity and respect for this forum. Be gone

Says the beast with 125 posts. Eat some meat.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Except that the 2900XT loses every single AA/AF benchmark.</end quote></div>

thats a lie cookie monster. Your such a fanboy. ATI AA is much quality than Nvidia AA.

8xAA ATI aa can beat up a 8xQAA Nvidia AA.
12xCFA can beatup any AA mode of Nvidia.

Sometimes i do wonder if your a kid based on some of your posts.

I was simply stating fact from tweaktown that all their benchies with AA/AF the XT lost. Whats so fanboy about saying that?

O boy and the last sentence indeed cracks me up. So most all reputable sites are wrong when they indicate that nVIDIA still has the IQ crown? tell me, how is ATi AA better than nVIDIA's AA in terms of quality? Are we going to zoom in 400% to find these negligible differences?

You say you own all the latest hardware but to me and the way to act and write (e.g beatup? this aint school), you make me believe that you making things up or pretend to talk about things that you have absolutely no idea about.

And for one, G80 can do shader AA AND CFAA which is what R600 is doing. Its just a waste of time and effort for them because there are hardly any advantages to both methods. Shader AA gains you more performance hit when enabling AA with the resulting IQ being the same, while CFAA is a more advanced form of Quincunx AA (so less blurring but there is STILL blurring going on as said by most reputable hardware sites) but in the end it means AF becomes useless due to the blur (details on textures are lost). The performance hit for enabling such AA method isnt pretty as some may have led to believe.

End of rant. What a complete waste of time. Theres a limit to what drivers can do and they wont magically fix AA performance drops because its hardware related. (R600 does not have hardware AA on their ROPs, or in other words AA resolve.)

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: tuteja1986
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Except that the 2900XT loses every single AA/AF benchmark.</end quote></div>

thats a lie cookie monster. Your such a fanboy. ATI AA is much quality than Nvidia AA.

8xAA ATI aa can beat up a 8xQAA Nvidia AA.
12xCFA can beatup any AA mode of Nvidia.</end quote></div>

Sometimes i do wonder if your a kid based on some of your posts.

I was simply stating fact from tweaktown that all their benchies with AA/AF the XT lost. Whats so fanboy about saying that?

O boy and the last sentence indeed cracks me up. So most all reputable sites are wrong when they indicate that nVIDIA still has the IQ crown? tell me, how is ATi AA better than nVIDIA's AA in terms of quality? Are we going to zoom in 400% to find these negligible differences?

You say you own all the latest hardware but to me and the way to act and write (e.g beatup? this aint school), you make me believe that you making things up or pretend to talk about things that you have absolutely no idea about.

And for one, G80 can do shader AA AND CFAA which is what R600 is doing. Its just a waste of time and effort for them because there are hardly any advantages to both methods. Shader AA gains you more performance hit when enabling AA with the resulting IQ being the same, while CFAA is a more advanced form of Quincunx AA (so less blurring but there is STILL blurring going on as said by most reputable hardware sites) but in the end it means AF becomes useless due to the blur (details on textures are lost). The performance hit for enabling such AA method isnt pretty as some may have led to believe.

End of rant. What a complete waste of time. Theres a limit to what drivers can do and they wont magically fix AA performance drops because its hardware related. (R600 does not have hardware AA on their ROPs, or in other words AA resolve.)

"Sometimes i do wonder if your a kid based on some of your posts." >> your post make me think your arrogant

"I was simply stating fact from tweaktown that all their benchies with AA/AF the XT lost. Whats so fanboy about saying that?" >> you statement was very bold and lame. It was sounded fanboy and sound stupid since you didn't bother to read up the quality of nvdia 4xAA mode against ATI 4xAA mode. You sounded like nothing but number person.

"You say you own all the latest hardware but to me and the way to act and write (e.g beatup? this aint school), you make me believe that you making things up or pretend to talk about things that you have absolutely no idea about." Now who is childish ?
"pretenting" I back my statement with links/fact unlike you who still has to show me where does it state that ATI lost to Nvidia AA Quality. Also i have not said once that ATI AF is better than Nvidia. You didn't bother to read my other post or even quote them because.... ??

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I am troubled to see that 2900XT spanks the GTS in all the games without AA or AF, but loses every single benchmark to the GTS when AA and AF are enabled. My how the tables have turned...

No.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...a-extreme_7.html#sect1

I didn't count, but the 2900 wins a bunch & loses a bunch.

There are likely to be reviews popping up in a bit featuring the faster 1 GB HD 2900 XT, & i hope the sites that do those also re-bench the 512 MB card with the newer drivers.

I'm holding off still, but it's looking like i'll be buying an HD 2900 XT, just not sure if it'll be the 512 MB or 1 GB one.

 

[BFG10K]

The HD2900s AA looks blurry (from the screenshots I have seen)

The box filter modes (such as 8xAA) don't blur the image at all. Also from what I've seen so far AAA may actually be better than TrSS unlike in the past where it was totally inferior.

 

[Cookie Monster]

"Sometimes i do wonder if your a kid based on some of your posts." >> your post make me think your arrogant

So you accept that your a kid since theres no denial of my statement?

"I was simply stating fact from tweaktown that all their benchies with AA/AF the XT lost. Whats so fanboy about saying that?" >> you statement was very bold and lame. It was sounded fanboy and sound stupid since you didn't bother to read up the quality of nvdia 4xAA mode against ATI 4xAA mode. You sounded like nothing but number person.

Have you been living under a cave? the sort of statement/argument was true back in the nv30/R300 days where there was a difference in 4xAA IQ since the nv30s had inferior AA both in IQ and performance. But now, the difference is so minimal its quite stupid to discuss about it. Theres a reason why im more focused about the numbers because your arguments about 4xAA are moot. The entire AT video users probably think so too. Shall we have a poll about 4xAA quality on latest hardware? the result would be predictable

"You say you own all the latest hardware but to me and the way to act and write (e.g beatup? this aint school), you make me believe that you making things up or pretend to talk about things that you have absolutely no idea about." Now who is childish ?
"pretenting" I back my statement with links/fact unlike you who still has to show me where does it state that ATI lost to Nvidia AA Quality. Also i have not said once that ATI AF is better than Nvidia. You didn't bother to read my other post or even quote them because.... ??


Link

Then we come to the ROP hardware, designed for high performance AA with high precision surface formats, at high resolution, with an increase in the basic MSAA ability to 8x. It's here that we see the lustre start to peel away slightly in terms of IQ and performance, with no fast hardware resolve for tiles that aren't fully compressed, and a first line of custom filters that can have a propensity to blur more than not. Edge detect is honestly sweet, but the CFAA package feels like something tacked on recently to paper over the cracks, rather than something forward-looking (we'll end up at the point of fully-programmable MSAA one day in all GPUs) to pair with speedy hardware resolve and the usual base filters. AMD didn't move the game on in terms of absolute image quality when texture filtering, either. They're no longer leaders in the field of IQ any more, overtaken by NVIDIA's GeForce 8-series hardware.

Happy now? If you read carefully from the computer.de review, they say several things that back me up.

Here everyone should decide for itself, what is more important to it. Besides one must mark that the Blur effect is differently pronounced from play to play.

CFAA is good at cleaning jaggies. This is fact. But while it cleans jaggies better than say CSAA (i.e 16xQ being worse compared to 12xCFAA according to them) it does something that IMO is putting alot of potential buyers. It blurs the textures. More smooth edges for blurry textures? you choose, and this is what they mean. Whats more important? jaggies or texture detail? This is very subjective but when you compare this with CSAA where you both retain GOOD performance AND texture detail AND get rid of most jaggies, how can you say ATi has better AA quality?

Im quite pleased to see them have nifty features such as the edge detect filter (very very nice), but if you dont put CFAA into the equation, all you get is MSAA up to 8xAA. Compared to a whole load of AA options from nVIDIA you can see why beyond3d has claimed to say ATi has lost the IQ crown.

 

[apoppin]

Im quite pleased to see them have nifty features such as the edge detect filter (very very nice), but if you dont put CFAA into the equation, all you get is MSAA up to 8xAA. Compared to a whole load of AA options from nVIDIA you can see why beyond3d has claimed to say ATi has lost the IQ crown.

oh, i am quite sure you are pleased .. to try and sling mud at AMD

i am also quite certain this has changed - a lot - since the initial reviews .. i believe Keys and i can do just as valid an up-to-date IQ comparisons for you to put under your magnifying glass ... and screenies don't do it justice ... videos should be uploaded

we actually have both cards to compare ... side-by-side in the same rig .. unlike you do-or-die fan-guys that support only ONE company with "bit's" of evidence - mostly taken out of context - from 'here and there' as you vainly try to "prove something"

it is actually 'funny' to read the mostly-unsubstantiated one-sided nonsense most of you post about r600 and g80 ... the bad IQ is a bad [BS] rap