Another Radeon Vega Preview Garbage Bin

[w3rd]

Yep, there are a lot of people here, who like to do a bunch of hyper-speculation based on the past... Whom are using zero insight into what AMD has been talking about as a Company, over the last few years.

Since my first posts here, I have stated that Pascal is not a 4k chip, & that Vega is. You don't have to be a genius to figure this out (ie: Battlefront @ 4k demo)

I am sure some long winded post is coming, about ignorantly not knowing what AMD's tech can do, even though they gave a preliminary 4 month sneak. Certain people do not want to believe Dr Su. But cant give a reason why...

Vega>Pascal... trying to argue otherwise means you are lacking insight & knowledge. Or they simply favor being obtusely cautious because reading between the lines is not in their wheelhouse.


Everyone is sick of the sli/xfire gimmick for "high end", that is why most gamers are going to welcome AMD with open wallets.



More generalized nontopical rabbit hole. Also, for @w3rd, you should read the rules for this subforum before posting in here again.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[zinfamous]

Yep, there are a lot of people here, who like to do a bunch of hyper-speculation based on the past... Whom are using zero insight into what AMD has been talking about as a Company, over the last few years.

Since my first posts here, I have stated that Pascal is not a 4k chip, & that Vega is. You don't have to be a genius to figure this out (ie: Battlefront @ 4k demo)

I am sure some long winded post is coming, about ignorantly not knowing what AMD's tech can do, even though they gave a preliminary 4 month sneak. Certain people do not want to believe Dr Su. But cant give a reason why...

Vega>Pascal... trying to argue otherwise means you are lacking insight & knowledge. Or they simply favor being obtusely cautious because reading between the lines is not in their wheelhouse.


Everyone is sick of the sli/xfire gimmick for "high end", that is why most gamers are going to welcome AMD with open wallets.

you still don't get it. Plenty of people here want that to be true, but the same people know that you are full of malarky.

I would, of course, be more than happy to eat crow if you turn out to be correct, even though it is clear that you are doing nothing more than pulling pure speculative nonsense out of your rosy posterior.

paper tech is wonderful to talk about and speculate on, but translated to actual performance is an entirely different monster. You simply refuse to understand this fundamental axiom, which is why you are the pariah around here.

My hunch, as everyone's, is that the tech is certainly there, but as with everything AMD always does, it may take a year or more for the same hardware to blossom, because this all depends on the devs utilizing those fancy baubles in the end. I do think that this is a product generation for AMD where they are poised to launch in a better light than in the past--they are square in the middle of the majority of development attention (console and AAA design is squarely focused on AMD, so it will translate easier to dGPU and PC; GCN and whatever NCU happens to be very likely has hit its stride now...after 5 or so years of promises; Zen was an absolutely stunning debut for the new AMD).

Simply put: hoisting Intel on its petard was not expected--but that pretty much happened: just wait until Naples drops the mic in about 2 months. Doing the same to nVidia is at least as unexpected, if not moreso....but it's not impossible as AMD/ATI has certainly done this many times before.

....all in one year, on this budget. Man, only an idiot would predict such a feat, but the majority of us would love to be idiots this year.

 

[moonbogg]

After the Zen trickery AMD threw at me I'm not giving any credence to anything other than a working card that's been reviewed by at least 3 legit people.

 

[tential]

After the Zen trickery AMD threw at me I'm not giving any credence to anything other than a working card that's been reviewed by at least 3 legit people.

What Zen trickery?

 

[moonbogg]

What Zen trickery?

I felt mislead in terms of the product's gaming performance, so I'm not buying into any hype again, ever. Well, maybe not ever, but not anytime soon.

 

[zinfamous]

I felt mislead in terms of the product's gaming performance, so I'm not buying into any hype again, ever. Well, maybe not ever, but not anytime soon.

that was all on you man. I know you stopped paying attention to the updates, but if you had continued with that order and picked up your 1800X, you would be eating that box right now and taping it for us.

that was your deal, and you broke it.

only AT feels misled by a massive moonbog letdown. You got duped into buying an inferior chip. and it wasn't AMD this time. Your 6800K is crushed by the 1700, and probably will be by the 1600X as well, for way less cost

sorry moonbog. you will get the chicken foot this year.

 

[moonbogg]

that was all on you man. I know you stopped paying attention to the updates, but if you had continued with that order and picked up your 1800X, you would be eating that box right now and taping it for us.

that was your deal, and you broke it.

only AT feels misled by a massive moonbog letdown. You got duped into buying an inferior chip. and it wasn't AMD this time. Your 6800K is crushed by the 1700, and probably will be by the 1600X as well, for way less cost

sorry moonbog. you will get the chicken foot this year.

You got Pwned by a bowl of chicken soup.

 

[zinfamous]

You got Pwned by a bowl of chicken soup.

It didn't cost me $300 of regret, though.

 

[moonbogg]

AMD has good products and I'm sure that will continue. I just have to make sure that they serve my specific purposes according to my own expectations. Curious to see where Vega lands, but it just has to land first. If it arrives in full beast mode with 16gb of HMB2, then that will result in quite a lot of regret I'd imagine.

 

[zinfamous]

AMD has good products and I'm sure that will continue. I just have to make sure that they serve my specific purposes according to my own expectations. Curious to see where Vega lands, but it just has to land first. If it arrives in full beast mode with 16gb of HMB2, then that will result in quite a lot of regret I'd imagine.

oh sorry, I thought we were in the Ryzen thread, I get so confused. the bet was for Ryzen. Aw man...sucks for you.

No one would likely begrudge you the 1080ti decision. that is one hell of a card at its price. ....but the price and timing is intriguing. It does make me think Vega is way better than green wants it to be.

 

[tential]

I felt mislead in terms of the product's gaming performance, so I'm not buying into any hype again, ever. Well, maybe not ever, but not anytime soon.

That is your own fault and everyone else's fault for completely ignoring reality. The reality was 40-50% IPC gain. There isn't a way you use that to bet a 7700k in gaming. It's a SERVER processor.
The amount of people that actually understood what AMD expected from the Ryzen 7 series is disturbingly low. Ryzen 7 over delivers on the promise we expected and theorized on what Zen would be from the start.

This is my problem with hardware. It feels like people completely ignore reality and are looking at hardware from a hype view, or from a vendor vs vendor view. The ability to step back and view the whole picture as of late in a LOT of areas seems greatly diminished.

Also, don't forget the trolls that come onto these places trying to drum up controversy before a chip releases or directly afterwards (They may not be trolls, just extremely uninformed individuals who refuse to be informed).

The reason I'm interested in AMD products is AMD ALWAYS screws something up majorly. ALWAYS.

I don't see any reason to wait for Vega or any product unless you're looking for a discount competitor. In my case, I ALWAYS am, so hence why I'm waiting for Vega.

However, based on AMD's newest way of developing chips, I have a lot of hope for them moving forward compared to their recent past.

Edit: When I read the Ryzen conversation, it's painfully clear that some of these users should go move to a GAMING forum and have zero business talking hardware.

oh sorry, I thought we were in the Ryzen thread, I get so confused. the bet was for Ryzen. Aw man...sucks for you.

No one would likely begrudge you the 1080ti decision. that is one hell of a card at its price. ....but the price and timing is intriguing. It does make me think Vega is way better than green wants it to be.

Or.... Vega will be a product that has to offer SOMETHING different. For AMD that is usually price. Last gen it was watercooling... which just wasn't enough for me. AMD offers good gaming VALUE so if that's' what you're after then get that. If you have money to blow and that's your intent with hardware you have other vendors to apply that money to.

AMD is a discount vendor right now and not in a bad way. I shop at outlets afterall, AMD is where I'll do a lot of shopping as their prices are so low the value proposition is impossible to ignore.

There is VERY LITTLE of the market segment that should be getting something other than Ryzen 5/Vega/Polaris refresh.

 

[zinfamous]

Or.... Vega will be a product that has to offer SOMETHING different. For AMD that is usually price. Last gen it was watercooling... which just wasn't enough for me. AMD offers good gaming VALUE so if that's' what you're after then get that. If you have money to blow and that's your intent with hardware you have other vendors to apply that money to.

AMD is a discount vendor right now and not in a bad way. I shop at outlets afterall, AMD is where I'll do a lot of shopping as their prices are so low the value proposition is impossible to ignore.

There is VERY LITTLE of the market segment that should be getting something other than Ryzen 5/Vega/Polaris refresh.

Pretty much how I feel and why I've always steered towards AMD and ATI/AMD in the past, despite dabbling elsewhere on occasion. I do think that best-case scenario for Vega, when it comes to performance, is that it slots at or maybe 10-15% under the 1080ti, but wins on price. If they can achieve that performance on release with a $100-150 price advantage (I do think that would be a miracle, because HBM2 is rather expensive, is it not? ....but then the story is that you actually need half the VRAM with HBM2 compared to DDR5x..but you know, consumers and their fickle minds and thinking that "Megapixels!" is the only story that matters, for example. ), then Vega should be a real winner. Well, should be.

 

[Malogeek]

....but the price and timing is intriguing. It does make me think Vega is way better than green wants it to be.

I don't think so. I believe it was merely a means of grabbing those customers teetering on the fence on whether to wait for Vega or not. My expectations for Vega are in the 1080 range, I don't think they will reach 1080ti performance..... yet (wine vs beer thing). At least with a single chip. I might be surprised but I really don't think AMD were targeting that high. It's going to be the best card available for the $400-600 range.

I have $500 waiting for my GPU upgrade after building my Ryzen and I'm perfectly fine waiting for release with my current 970. Only then will I decide what to buy. I'm just not playing any high end games until my upgrade as I want to push the visuals on them.

 

[w3rd]

you still don't get it. Plenty of people here want that to be true, but the same people know that you are full of malarky.

I would, of course, be more than happy to eat crow if you turn out to be correct, even though it is clear that you are doing nothing more than pulling pure speculative nonsense out of your rosy posterior.

paper tech is wonderful to talk about and speculate on, but translated to actual performance is an entirely different monster. You simply refuse to understand this fundamental axiom, which is why you are the pariah around here.

My hunch, as everyone's, is that the tech is certainly there, but as with everything AMD always does, it may take a year or more for the same hardware to blossom, because this all depends on the devs utilizing those fancy baubles in the end. I do think that this is a product generation for AMD where they are poised to launch in a better light than in the past--they are square in the middle of the majority of development attention (console and AAA design is squarely focused on AMD, so it will translate easier to dGPU and PC; GCN and whatever NCU happens to be very likely has hit its stride now...after 5 or so years of promises; Zen was an absolutely stunning debut for the new AMD).

Simply put: hoisting Intel on its petard was not expected--but that pretty much happened: just wait until Naples drops the mic in about 2 months. Doing the same to nVidia is at least as unexpected, if not moreso....but it's not impossible as AMD/ATI has certainly done this many times before.

....all in one year, on this budget. Man, only an idiot would predict such a feat, but the majority of us would love to be idiots this year.

"Everything AMD always does...."
Well, can you please give us a pattern that AMD always does, since Dr Su ..?

And why would you eat crow, if you are wrong..? If you already know this, then why not predict/speculate with what you do know, instead of trying very hardly to be pessimistic and downtrodden..? We already saw Vega at 4k on an early engineering sample a few months ago.

Nvidia didn't sneak a debut of Pascal's engineering samples at 4k.. with the CEO grinning. AMD did..

What you are saying, is you can't accept anything, because nobody has dropped it off on your door. Because you have chosen not to accept all this tech is coming together by AMD. Yet, at the same time lend credence that somehow it would be acceptable, or believable if Nvidia was releasing such tech. But double caution on AMD because... different CEO?

I am telling you that since Dr Su, AMD is not playing politics... it is at war. And AMD's war engine is massive and build on top of great technology.




As a 35 year computer gamer, I will make this bold statement: NVidia is irrelevant to gaming now... their business is in server farms, not gamers. Volta can not compete with AMD's patents & technology.

The new up-and-coming Xbox & PlayStation are illustration of this.

 

[french toast]

I felt mislead in terms of the product's gaming performance, so I'm not buying into any hype again, ever. Well, maybe not ever, but not anytime soon.

If you bothered to read the gaming slides amd prepared you would see amd was very up front and honest about its performance, which showed ryzen losing in many games whilst winning some, i was disappointed at the time because it didn't look as good as id hoped.
The only claim they made is ryzen Wouldn't bottleneck 4k gaming.

 

[Puffnstuff]

NVidia is irrelevant to gaming now... their business is in server farms, not gamers.

That is tongue in cheek sarcasm right? Their four financial statements from 2016 don't lie and AMD's entire portfolio of gpu and cpu products can't match Nvidia. Check out their 2016 earnings for yourselves and if you don't like yahoo finance search edgar.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NVDA/financials?p=NVDA
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AMD/financials?p=AMD


You need to read the rules as well.

AT Moderator ElFEnix

 

[VirtualLarry]

AMD is a discount vendor right now and not in a bad way. I shop at outlets afterall, AMD is where I'll do a lot of shopping as their prices are so low the value proposition is impossible to ignore.

I agree, which is why I recently picked up a pair of RX 470 4GB cards from Newegg on ebay, for $150 ea. to soup up some mid-range / entry-level i5 and G4560 gaming rigs. I was not disappointed. (They replaced a RX 460 4GB and a GTX950 2GB card.)

If Vega TRUELY is a "4K" card (and hits a home run with copious amounts of HBM2 memory, enough to last for 4-5 years worth of respectable performance levels), then I might consider getting one, as I do have a pair of 4K UHD displays. But it would have to be a choice between that and a Ryzen CPU upgrade, I'm afraid, due to finances.

 

[SolMiester]

Yep, there are a lot of people here, who like to do a bunch of hyper-speculation based on the past... Whom are using zero insight into what AMD has been talking about as a Company, over the last few years.

Since my first posts here, I have stated that Pascal is not a 4k chip, & that Vega is. You don't have to be a genius to figure this out (ie: Battlefront @ 4k demo)

I am sure some long winded post is coming, about ignorantly not knowing what AMD's tech can do, even though they gave a preliminary 4 month sneak. Certain people do not want to believe Dr Su. But cant give a reason why...

Vega>Pascal... trying to argue otherwise means you are lacking insight & knowledge. Or they simply favor being obtusely cautious because reading between the lines is not in their wheelhouse.


Everyone is sick of the sli/xfire gimmick for "high end", that is why most gamers are going to welcome AMD with open wallets.

LOL, Im not sure if this guy is serious or just a seriously misled AMD Fan!

AMD has struggled to keep up for the last several years but all of a sudden, will produce the golden chip?..

Bookmarking for later laughs!

 

[Glo.]

LOL, Im not sure if this guy is serious or just a seriously misled AMD Fan!

AMD has struggled to keep up for the last several years but all of a sudden, will produce the golden chip?..

Bookmarking for later laughs!

Having open mind about hardware, is always good way to approach. Because it can be either way. You can laugh at w3rd, and w3rd, and everybody else, who had open mind, about possibilities, will laugh at you.

Vega 10 should be around GTX 1080 TI performance level. For 599$? I wish...

Raja Koduri have said few months ago, that his own goal, for release is to be able to offer 4K gaming under 1000$ price tag, for whole computer. So that should give people at least a hint of what we can expect from Vega GPUs.

P.S. Here is a post from Sebbbi, on Beyond3D forum about GCN5:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1973875/

 

[itsmydamnation]

LOL, Im not sure if this guy is serious or just a seriously misled AMD Fan!

AMD has struggled to keep up for the last several years but all of a sudden, will produce the golden chip?..

Bookmarking for later laughs!

But you have to look at why. in a way it all comes back to 20nm.

When 20nm cancelled NV backported and created 28nm maxwell.
AMD didn't they just rolled another iteration of current uarch.

then in early 14nm AMD released Polaris which has many new features which would have released with 20nm.
NV released pascal which outside of GP100 had nothing new.

Now AMD will release a new 14nm part to compare to pascal.

Now let look at the big difference at each generation.

maxwell vs tonga
tonga had better compute capabilities ( marginal increase in perf)
maxwell had better memory compression ( marginal increase in perf)
maxwell had better front end/tri angle setup ( big increase in perf)
maxwell had rop caches attached to L2 ( big increase in perf)
maxwell made uarch changes to increase clocks (big increase in perf)

pascal vs polaris
polaris has better compute capabilities (marginal increase in perf)
pascal might have better memory compression ( marginal increase in perf)
pascal has rop caches attached to L2 (big increase in perf)
maxwell made uarch changes to increase clocks (big increase in perf)

pascal vs vega
vega has better compute capabilities (marginal increase in perf)

AMD not spending the money to backport when it was understood 20nm was rubbish has had a multi generational impact. That effect should end with VEGA. At that point there is nothing architecturally pointing to serious deficits vs NV like there has been since Maxwell was released.

if 20nm didn't get cancelled 20nm maxwell still would have been better then 20nm Polaris but nowhere near as much as maxwell vs tonga.

Much like Zen if you actually look at uarch information published about Vega they are improving all the right things.

I wouldn't bookmark anything you post, because there is never anything of quality in them anyway.

But the bigger question is what will Arachnotronic do when there are no amd products to bag?


Arachnotronic isn't involving himself in this discussion. Keep his name out your mouth.

You also need to read the rules as well.


AT Moderator ElFEnix

 

[Kenmitch]

AMD has struggled to keep up for the last several years but all of a sudden, will produce the golden chip?..

Bookmarking for later laughs!

Time will tell in the end.

I for one don't base AMD's future on it's past performance anymore. It's not really the same company that it once was.

Not saying they'll produce a golden chip....Hell it could turn out to be platinum for all we know.

Zen's got some growing pains to work out but overall it's competitive with Intel and in some case superior in it's price tiers depending on what a person uses their rig for.

 

[w3rd]

LOL, Im not sure if this guy is serious or just a seriously misled AMD Fan!

AMD has struggled to keep up for the last several years but all of a sudden, will produce the golden chip?..

Bookmarking for later laughs!

I said nothing of the sort. You responded, because of what you think of me, not to refute what I have said.

I buy anything. Doesn't matter who makes it. I do not subscribe to "camps". I follow tech. And nothing I have said about AMD is delusional, or makes me a fanatic. I am simply aware of what AMD's technology will do for my gaming room. Thus other people's gaming room & rigs. I see no Company that competes with AMD in gaming chips..

What do you see..? Are you open enough to speak your mind and lay it down how you see it..? (Baked by all available knowledge)
Or you just another lost individual, trolling me... like all the local nVidia Yo boys, do..?

Glad you booked marked me. I'll be your first lesson.

 

[SolMiester]

Time will tell in the end.

I for one don't base AMD's future on it's past performance anymore. It's not really the same company that it once was.

Not saying they'll produce a golden chip....Hell it could turn out to be platinum for all we know.

Zen's got some growing pains to work out but overall it's competitive with Intel and in some case superior in it's price tiers depending on what a person uses their rig for.

Yeah nah!, nice line, but AMD roll outs are all the same. Usually great chips 18 mths after release, but never enough on the day.

 

[SolMiester]

I said nothing of the sort. You responded, because of what you think of me, not to refute what I have said.

I buy anything. Doesn't matter who makes it. I do not subscribe to "camps". I follow tech. And nothing I have said about AMD is delusional, or makes me a fanatic. I am simply aware of what AMD's technology will do for my gaming room. Thus other people's gaming room & rigs. I see no Company that competes with AMD in gaming chips..

What do you see..? Are you open enough to speak your mind and lay it down how you see it..? (Baked by all available knowledge)
Or you just another lost individual, trolling me... like all the local nVidia Yo boys, do..?

Glad you booked marked me. I'll be your first lesson.

Mate, you have nothing more than the next guy concerning AMD tech, but too say AMD is leaving NV behind?, that is delusional.
AMD are like sheep, they follow, just like they follow NV tech, monitor sync, multi card, AA filtering, prosumer cards, professional cards and more.


Quit being a dick.

AT Moderator ElFenix