Another reason A+ and MCSE cert's mean squat!

[Subversal]

Well nice to know there are plenty of A+ certified techs working on PC's. He almost ruined $600 worth of hardware... maybe more if he installed the memory too. I guess I just realized its not the cert... its the person. Shame people going to college and they don't learn anything (haha... yeah where have I been).

 

[damien6]

Subversal - I got nothing against you but your general blanketed statement does say a lot without much merit to begin with.

You never said (only) A+ such and such but you added the MCSE to you generalization to boost your statement about the value of these two certifications as a whole. Even by your own statement: "I know MCSE has nothing to do with building a PC but A+ does." should've been the cause enough to leave out "MCSE" in your blanketed statements. That was the basis for my comparison w/ a nuclear physicist. Last time I checked most house hold PC don't have w/millions of $$ worth of equipments/softwares, things people usually don't see/use at home, which could make a big difference if that individual only dealt w/those kind of machines and have never dealt w/PC used for home use. Regardless it's more of software and barely any hardware (unless you want to include networking hardwares)anyway.

Comptias' A+ certification on the other hand, means he studied for / passed exams on "basic" PC repairs for systems running Windows/MS operating system environment. It doesn't mean he's an expert or anything, it mean that the individual studied (should know) a little more than John Q public on the basic functions/repairs of PC hardwares and trouble shooting their problems. Nothing more. If you expected more than the fault lies there, period.

Any and all certifications are only as valid as what the individual has learned and his ability to use what he learned into practical applications. The certification has nothing to do w/ that persons' inability to applied what he learned and forgotten. Getting the certification doesn't mean you reached the end, it means you got the basics to get you into the front door leading toward the carreer that you have chosen.




"What do you have against me? I have passed 4 tests (3 core 1 elective) and only need 3 more to attain MCSE certification."

Like I've said I have nothing against you but your words do irritate me. First you berate the MCSE certification then you turn around and say you're "almost" certified yourself w/"only" three more exams to go. Why go for a certification if you think "MCSE cert's mean squat!"? Last I checked MS isn't in the habit of going out forcing individuals to set MCSE certifications as their goals for themselves. (just other competing companies )



BTW- what four tests did you take? You only need to pass 6 tests total for MCSE certification. If you followed the NT 4.0 track, you have until Feb./Mar. to complete those exams before MS retires the NT exams or you'll have to start Win2K track from the beginning. If you pass the NT 4.0 track by that retiring date then you're certified MCSE but you'll have til the end of Dec. of 2001 for that certification to run out and you'll need to get recertified to retain your MCSE certification.

 

[damien6]

I might go for the re-certification when mine runs out but I've heard from most of the guys I tutor that the Win2k "upgrade" exam is harder than the individual exams themselves. I guess it makes sense, MS doesn't want anyone to pass that exam for free when they could make $$ of each individual exams. I just advised them to consider that "free" exam as a preview quiz before the final exams. Something to think about.

 

[Subversal]

I've passed:

Win2k Professional
Win2k Server
Win2k AD services
Proxy Server 2.0

I am doing the Windows 2000 track... and for Win2k you need to pass 7 tests (5 core, 2 elective) to be complete. I didn't mean to berate certifications... I am merely PO'd that idiots can achieve certified status while I work hard for it. I study often only to have people already certified make the cert's look almost meaningless. Also yeah the Accelerated Win2k exam is a bitch I'm told (this from my teacher) and you can only take it once. Sorry about the title of this thread... Shoud have left out certs altoghether and just focused on the guys stupidity

 

[Pakman]

Hmmm... interesting thread. I have to agree with the people that say the certifications are just a stepping stone and passing the tests does not make you an expert. I happen to be A+ and MCSE, but that doesn't mean I know everything (I'm still having trouble with the hexdecimal conversions or I'm just lazy to look it up hehe). I've been working with computers for 11 years with 5 years building, repairing, and troubleshooting... but it doesn't mean I know everything. Even though I may be certified in both, I'm in no way an "expert". Especially in things related to the MCSE. It's a good thing I have enough practical background to allow me to pretty much figure things out or at least know where to get help if I need it (Anandtech ). This next statement is totally my opinion, but in the IT field, or any other field, but especially in the IT field... the really good people are the ones that have a passion for this kinda stuff. Those other 90% of the IT wannabe's are just in it for the money.

 

[MadRat]

Everyone is an idiot until they are taught hands on. Paper and print are not like true experience. Personality should be important in the interview process. How many people work alongside you and are generally unhappy? I've known quite a few. Most of them were fine people stuck in dead end situations.

Like I have learned, its better to ease out of an unhappy situation at first, test the water, then make the jump. You just may find the grass isn't greener elsewhere. I'm alot happier at my job and in life in general when I had the chance to look at what else is out there.

 

[Caitiff]

I don't know. I have worked a help desk for 3 years now, and I've seen a lot of techs come and go. When I got my first job, there were 3 other people applying, all w/ their A+, and I did not. When they asked me why I felt qualified for the job, I told them about how it was a hobby of mine to take computers apart, and rebuild them, or upgrade friends computers. The other dorks didn't even HAVE a pc at the time. Granted, mine was a little 166 AMD K6, but I upgraded it myself from an old 486 -50. <shrug> Anyway, I've seen the product of A+, and I'm not impressed, and the same thing goes for MCSE. I'm too damn lazy to get my certs like I should so I can get a better paying job, but most companies don't trust a piece of paper that says you know what you are doing. Around here, they go out and have someone else do their interviewing, someone who does have a tech background. If you can't demonstrate how to make a BDC into a PDC, you ain't getting the job.

 

[Aboroth]

Certifications are warm, fuzzy feelings you give to clueless people who know less than you. It doesn't matter if you are clueless as long as a piece of paper is there to say that you, at a minimum, bought a book or went to some web sites and memorized all of the possible questions and answers and kept them in your short term memory long enough to pass the tests.

MCSE= Microsoft Certified Solitaire Expert
or
MCSE= Must Consult Someone Experienced

 

[JackBurton]

<< the really good people are the ones that have a passion for this kinda stuff. Those other 90% of the IT wannabe's are just in it for the money. >>


Man, that is the whole truth and NOTHING but the truth! I can't stand the people that got in IT for just the money. You'll never be the best without the passion. IMO

 

[AMD4ME2]

sheesh! What a MORON! of course anyone can pass the test without knowing about the importance of standoffs... since the test is so damn lame it isn't even funny. I took a class for A+ which was a big mistake cost me a small fortune.. and I already knew probably 90% of the material, Plus more that the instructor didn't know(we went round and round on a few issues)

so I say A+ is good!!

classes are bad if you already know alot
classes are good if you know absolutely nothing!

 

[Remedy]

Alright i know i'm late in the thread but hear me out. MCSE means Diddly right now. Everysince last year 99 when i join Anands forums and been reading Toms hardware and such other Great info sites, I know more about Hardware and systems in general &amp; detail then the majority of ppl who take up 3 and 4 years of school. But yet these same ppl get hired at any computer store or company for a position they nothing about, and for what? You ask them a question and their like &quot;Huh let me check with my manager about this, hold on&quot;. They're the real reason why all the jobs are taken up and the real techs like the members of this forum can't find good work. My question is this, Whats the point of cramming for exams if the only thing they are going to do is fail in the real world??

 

[Subversal]

<< Whats the point of cramming for exams if the only thing they are going to do is fail in the real world?? >>




The sentiment behind that question is so dead on. I got into this field because I realized its what I what to do. I went to Drexel for EE (electrical engineering) and just didn't have the passion I feel for computers. I guess I could have always went for a CE degree but the things I didn't like about EE I found in CE. I may not have been the smartest in my class but I do study and work hard... I like to learn and apply knowledge... not just learn then forget. The A+ class was a joke (only an hour class for a semester) but learning various network platforms and applying them is something new to me and I am readily working hard to learn them. Also I am not saying I'm an expert. When I first built my own PC (a Pentium 100) I read a lot on the process before I proceeded. I know by the time I am out of school (and have my certs) I won't be an expert either... but I like to think when I finish. I'll have enough knowledge that I won't be beginning all over again.

 

[Remedy]

I wasn't slamming you personally, i was talking about the ppl who goto school for all this and still don't know anything after the certs is over.

 

[evanichka]

lol damn it, I have A+ and MCSE too! I agree with most ppl, don't let one guy taint the damn certification. Getting MCSE isn't too bad, did it in two months, but then I had experience with NT servers and stuff. Anyhow, back to the point, you are making a fallacy of composition - do not let one bad apple ruin it for all you know what I mean?

Also, isn't MCSE 4.0 track extended till february or something like that?

Last thing... anyone wanna hire me? Don't want to go to college lol.

 

[Soccerman]

well I'm in a somewhat different situation then you guys.

however I totally agree for the most part.

you have to be up to date, in everything your job specification requires, not necessarily in terms of the extra letters behind your name, but in terms of pure knowledge. knowledge that you automatically use whenever you get asked a question, or are needed to solve a problem.

THAT is what experience gives you.

I'm currently taking a Cisco networking course at High School (hey I'm only 17), and I'd have to say that it HAS helped me understand the logistics of networking alot better, however it has done NOTHING to prepare me for the real job.

what are the different features of a Router these days? for crying out loud, we're told nothing like that. we're told about the SOFTWARE end for the most part. WTF is a Backbone? WTF is a Module?

the only way I figured this stuff out (it's needed for the last big project, we have to make our own network design, include costs etc.), is by contacting a guy right here on Anandtech Forums, and by reading Cisco's website like mad.

now that I'm done that, I've got to move on to Switches (dah, the whole thing all over again!). my goodness, I hate the way the 'leader' of our group designed our network.. he's quite the idiot. he know's a BIT about hardware, but not much.

actually come to think of it, almost EVERYONE in that class knows next to nothing about computer hardware in the first place, save ONE person, who really gets on my nerves without knowing it (he's kindof obnoxious. every so often he mentions something about his amazing internet connection, or the stuff he has downloaded with it.. Winddows 2k etc.). it's simply becuase of his personality that gets me though, I just try to not listen..

there's only one other person in the entire class who actually see's my logic in choosing designs, etc. this guy is a real good learner, he keeps his ears open to everthing. he's not very Biased at all.

computers currently is my hobby, but I can see that I'm beginning to get quite interested in Physics. of course, it's much harder to get first had knowledge of these types of things. here I am trying to understand Magnetism (I get Electomagnetic fields, but not Magnetic fields.. there's something weird about them) and how the speed of Light works, and there the Physicists are, slugging through Quantum physics.. that's what I want to be. a Physicist (spell?). Computers are merely, a hobby.

but anyway, I shouldn't be complaining about the idiots that surround me, because I'm not all that smart either.. I'm currently typing this in Linux, which I know next to nothing about. but at least I'm learning about it the RIGHT way, with hands on experience.