Another study linking political views with intelligence

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Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Not saying that I believe this guy is right or wrong but really his premise here is simply that:

"A willingness to go against ones evolutionary instincts shows intelligence"

I pretty much completely disagree with this premise.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Not saying that I believe this guy is right or wrong but really his premise here is simply that:

"A willingness to go against ones evolutionary instincts shows intelligence"

I pretty much completely disagree with this premise.

Actually, that is pretty much the definition of intelligence. Rational thought and logical capacity is completely in contrast to physical and instinctual reactivity.

Our intelligence defines us and allows us go against virtually EVERYTHING that has been the natural way of the world. We dominate and mold nature to our whims. We let the weak live and we have "morals". We create, not only life in test tubes but also have the destructive capabilities to lay waste to the entire world.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Except the study has nothing to do with the number of people that are liberal or conservative. The intelligence of the group is averaged, not summed.

Congrats on not understanding a word of what I said.

I think my point has been made.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Now as I view conservatives, this definition is not that far off. Ask yourself this:

What policy do you support as a conservative that doesn't DIRECTLY BENEFIT YOU OR YOUR PALS.

Conversely, ask liberals that same question.

Sounds like you're viewing conservatives more along the way how "progressives" tell us we should view conservatives.

How about this - I support a less "progressive" tax code. So you'd come back and say "DAMN YOU RICH EVIL CONSERVATIVE GREEDY BASTARD NOT WANTING TO PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE" - right? Last year I paid a grand sum of $50 in federal income taxes under the current system.
 
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drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Actually, that is pretty much the definition of intelligence. Rational thought and logical capacity is completely in contrast to physical and instinctual reactivity.

Our intelligence defines us and allows us go against virtually EVERYTHING that has been the natural way of the world. We dominate and mold nature to our whims. We let the weak live and we have "morals". We create, not only life in test tubes but also have the destructive capabilities to lay waste to the entire world.

I'm sorry, but contrarian != intelect.

Additionally, a large number of early scientific discoveries were discovered by members of the clergy. Hell, the entire field of genetics was conceived of by a monk. To say that people who adopt the morals, ethics, or overarching beliefs of any particular religion cannot have the same capacity for inteligence as an atheist is stupid and rids that argument of anything remotely resembling credibility.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Sounds like you're viewing conservatives more along the way how "progressives" tell us we should view conservatives.

If you're not progressive, what are you? A laggard?

So what should we view conservatives as?
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Now as I view conservatives, this definition is not that far off. Ask yourself this:

What policy do you support as a conservative that doesn't DIRECTLY BENEFIT YOU OR YOUR PALS.

Conversely, ask liberals that same question.

As a conservative, I support policy that does NOT directly benefit ANYONE. That is the definition of true conservatism.

Popular misconception: the left- and centrist-leaning republicans of today are conservatives. Not true. Republican != conservative, anymore. Don't look at the policy of the republicans and expect to find many conservative ideals in it. Instead, look at the policy pushed by libertarians. Those are the true conservatives in today's world.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
I'm sorry, but contrarian != intelect.

Additionally, a large number of early scientific discoveries were discovered by members of the clergy. Hell, the entire field of genetics was conceived of by a monk. To say that people who adopt the morals, ethics, or overarching beliefs of any particular religion cannot have the same capacity for inteligence as an atheist is stupid and rids that argument of anything remotely resembling credibility.

Contrarian itself does not bear a direct relation. Intellect however moves us beyond simple instinct.

When they coincide:


Is it smart to to touch a burning flame? No.
Is it smart to withdraw when you accidentally touch an open flame? Yes.
Is it instinctual to withdraw when you accidentially touch an open flame? Yes.

When they contrast:


If you can not instinctually feel that something is dangerous, then you do not react.
If you intellectually know something is dangerous, like Radioactivity, then you do withdraw, even though it is not instinctual.


And no, the article specifically said that it does not take into any account of politics, morals or ethics. It is PURELY on the subject of consideration for others vs consideration of oneself.

What you consider a relation to conservatism with specific religions or whatever is your own business.

They are saying conservatives are less intelligent than liberals. Even if conservatives are more likely to be religious, it does not mean the factor of being religious causes you to be less intelligent.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
As a conservative, I support policy that does NOT directly benefit ANYONE. That is the definition of true conservatism.

Popular misconception: the left- and centrist-leaning republicans of today are conservatives. Not true. Republican != conservative, anymore. Don't look at the policy of the republicans and expect to find many conservative ideals in it. Instead, look at the policy pushed by libertarians. Those are the true conservatives in today's world.

So you are just wasting everyone's time then? You support policy that is pointless?

Also, did you realize the study was conducted by a self professed Libertarian scientist and a self-professed conservative scientist?

It absolutely does not mean being conservative means YOU are stupider than I am. It suggests that on average, this is the case. I do not have any qualms about this because frankly, as I see it most of the stupid conservatives are really stupid. While the educated and intelligent conservatives are just stubborn or ingrained with their own self-righteous or self-centered ideals.
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
If you're not progressive, what are you? A laggard?

So what should we view conservatives as?

So you are a "progressive" then.

Yea, this alone pretty much cuts off any further meaningful discussion.

Well, for one, stop getting your news from "progressive" sources. Maybe you'll start to understand things better. But for now, it's clear you don't want to listen to anyone else's opinion.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
So you are a "progressive" then.

Yea, this alone pretty much cuts off any further meaningful discussion.

Well, for one, stop getting your news from "progressive" sources. Maybe you'll start to understand things better. But for now, it's clear you don't want to listen to anyone else's opinion.

If you mean I want to move forward to better and greener, yes I'm "progressive".

I do not want to "conserve" what is wrong with our society and world.

If conservatives had it their way in the USA, slaves would never have been freed, Gay rights would be nonexistent, women would be second class citizens etc. Excuse me for not historically sympathizing with conservatives .
 
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drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
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So you are just wasting everyone's time then? You support policy that is pointless?

Also, did you realize the study was conducted by a self professed Libertarian scientist and a self-professed conservative scientist?

It absolutely does not mean being conservative means YOU are stupider than I am. It suggests that on average, this is the case. I do not have any qualms about this because frankly, as I see it most of the stupid conservatives are really stupid. While the educated and intelligent conservatives are just stubborn or ingrained with their own self-righteous or self-centered ideals.

PSUEDOSCIENTIST. Get your damn words straight.

This "study" was done for one reason: to stir the pot and generate publicity for the author. It is pointless, baseless, and groundless.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
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It is PURELY on the subject of consideration for others vs consideration of oneself.

Then it is a worthless study, as those are the most minor of matters of political and social ideology.

Once again, this study is psuedoscience bullshit.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
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Then it is a worthless study, as those are the most minor of matters of political and social ideology.

Once again, this study is psuedoscience bullshit.

OK, so you are questioning the scientific method of this study and the credibility of those who conducted the research. Fair enough, but can you prove it instead of just yelling about it?

I also disagree about the "minor matter" of consideration of others vs the consideration of oneself.

I believe it is the central difference between the Left and Right. The left is willing to sacrifice a part of themselves for the greater good, and the benefit of others, no matter how deserving. The right is not willing to cede their own position, power, and wealth in order to help others.

That's the way I have seen it based on my own studies and experiences, and you are free to debate the validity of these observations. I have found however, like Cubby above me, they can only say "F you liberal, you're an idiot and there's no need to debate with you any further", instead of presenting a rational and reasonable argument for or against my own.
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
^^^
No, your views are not correct.

But you have no willingness to listen to others, to open yourself up to the possibility of being wrong.

I am just judging you as one person, while you are judging a wide range of people based on a very small & limited sampling of experiences.

This is AT P&N, there just is no point in discussing any of this further with you
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
^^^
No, your views are not correct.

But you have no willingness to listen to others, to open yourself up to the possibility of being wrong.

I am just judging you as one person, while you are judging a wide range of people based on a very small & limited sampling of experiences.

This is AT P&N, there just is no point in discussing any of this further with you

"You are wrong and you're close minded".

LOL, and my point exactly. With no actual argument of why I am wrong, or proof that I am closed minded. Just an assertion of the fact and a "GG, BYE" conclusion. :hmm:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
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Except that works won't get anyone into heaven according to their stupid and backwards notions. Many do it because they see it as an "love thy neighbor as thyself"act, but it doesn't buy "Jesus Points" for admission. Then again, this world believes that self is the reason for the world being here. Perhaps they are fools indeed.

But love thy neighbor as thyself is the definition of liberal here. Therefore, some Christians are motivated by being liberal in their thinking and some because they want to get to heaven or have a bigger church and take over the world for Christ, as it were.

In short, being religious or not doesn't tell us anything about IQ because that was not studied, but caring for others over a limited group was looked at.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
OK, so you are questioning the scientific method of this study and the credibility of those who conducted the research. Fair enough, but can you prove it instead of just yelling about it?

I've already proven that this study is worthless. You CANNOT quantify human behavior. As such, there is no POSSIBLE "science" that can link one part of human behavior to another in a completely causal way.

This story has no more basis in fact or causality than if I were to come out and say that I think people who live in Minesota are more stupid than people in California because they live in the cold and talk with a weird accent. It may or may not be true, but there is no possible way to quantify it.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Actually, that is pretty much the definition of intelligence. Rational thought and logical capacity is completely in contrast to physical and instinctual reactivity.

Our intelligence defines us and allows us go against virtually EVERYTHING that has been the natural way of the world. We dominate and mold nature to our whims. We let the weak live and we have "morals". We create, not only life in test tubes but also have the destructive capabilities to lay waste to the entire world.

Completely depends on how you want to take a look at it.

Self preservation for example is the most basic instinct and the highly intelligent have it just as much as a cockroach does.

I do not consider a suicide bomber to be more intelligent because they conquer that instinct.

So depending on how you want to look at any given situation his premise can be absolutely correct or horribly flawed.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
YOU should try reading what is actually written, not what you want to believe was said.

Even the study authors didn't claim that "concern for non-related others" was a comprehensive definition of a liberal. And anyone who really thinks about the definition being used in the study recognizes it does NOT mean that liberals are "concerned more about others" than they are "concerned about their relatives."

No, the "definition" actually being used is that - for the purposes of the study - a "liberal" is one whose RATIO of "concern for others" to "concern for relatives" is high; and conservatives are those whose ratio is low.

This is an abstract definition, and it's a fair one. Clearly, no one factor can differentiate all liberals from all conservatives - there's way too much overlap. So a simple test is being used as a proxy. Pick it apart all you want, but you can't get away from its validity.

Pointing out there are conservative individuals or conservative groups that are "liberal" by this test is just playing the anecdotes game. Surely you're intelligent enough to see the flaws in your own reasoning.

What I read is what was posted. I don't agree that the government ought to have as much control as many "liberals" do, yet I believe others ought to be helped. I know many who feel the same.

The study decides to simplify beyond usefulness arbitrary definitions.

What happens when we start getting to IQs in the 120 and 80 range? Ultra Super Liberal and Really Awesome Conservatives?
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Completely depends on how you want to take a look at it.

Self preservation for example is the most basic instinct and the highly intelligent have it just as much as a cockroach does.

I do not consider a suicide bomber to be more intelligent because they conquer that instinct.

So depending on how you want to look at any given situation his premise can be absolutely correct or horribly flawed.

A suicide bomber IS more intelligent because their ideals and religions have conquered even self preservation. More intelligent than what? Well, monkeys for starters. More intelligent than Einstein? No, just because he is able to conquer fear of death, does not add to his intelligence more than what is the basic amount needed to comprehend and be indoctrinated by a religion.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I'm not sure of the merits of THIS particular study, but the wholesale rejection of the basic premise is kind of confusing. Does it seem logical that intelligence plays no part in forming political opinions, or that all political ideologies are equally attractive to intelligent people?

However, I will say that it's fairly common in political discussions to hear the word "intellectual" used as a slur, which is probably not a great way to attract intelligent people to your cause.
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,271
0
0
Of course it is, however the reason things get posted like this it to illustrate how superior the OP and those who think like him are.

Remember the other thread that said that those with a lessened sense of self were religious because of it and that was due to brain damage? Well if one is less self centered, then they are more likely to be aware of the needs of others. If a liberal is defined as someone who is concerned about those needs then he is also less self centered, and that means he's brain damaged.

Science is awesome!

I should note that I'm probably a little more conservative than liberal. But I do very much agree with the basic tenets of science and the way the world can be interpreted through science.


I'm not sure of the merits of THIS particular study, but the wholesale rejection of the basic premise is kind of confusing. Does it seem logical that intelligence plays no part in forming political opinions, or that all political ideologies are equally attractive to intelligent people?

However, I will say that it's fairly common in political discussions to hear the word "intellectual" used as a slur, which is probably not a great way to attract intelligent people to your cause.

Careful Rainsford... people's head might asplode if you start being clever...
 
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