Another Victim of OCZ

[thescreensavers]

You should always have two, or preferably more copies of anything important. Otherwise, you are just tempting fate.

This, anything important should be backed up

 

[Burner27]

There are no 100% reliable storage devices, but there are no 100% reliable ANYTHING.

Death is 100% reliable. I know how morbid....... ;-)

 

[ohforfs]

I have 2x Vertex 3 128GB's. I haven't had a single BSOD from the drives. I'm running a Z68 self built system. I ran the old firmware for ages but now have the 2.15 on them.

I do backups to a USB drive every couple of weeks due to seeing these threads. I am not going to say more than that in case I tempt fate

 

[Diogenes2]

2 Months without a back-up, and that is OCZ's fault?

 

[groberts101]

Telling someone to stop using hibernation/sleep with Sandforce is slightly like blaming the victim of a rape for dressing provocatively. haha

Perhaps all partners using these controllers should place warnings in their manuals. Though we all know such a restriction would means LESS sales. Instead, consumers find out the hard way and come here to vent.

I actually like OCZ for the sheer entertainment value they alone provide.

No.. it would be more like telling you're girlfriend not to hang out in bad neighborhood's when she's wearing that super short mini-skirt that you really dig.

In reality.. I have few "girlfriends" here and could'nt really care less what people want to think or do with the advice after I post it. I only share it based on massive experience with the issues in hopes that someone may avoid issues down the road. While it is likely that Sandforce will eventually give us one last mass release firmware to address a few more unresolved issues.. that controllers support will surely be EOL after next hardware gen's arrive.

And.. Funny.. I get more kicks around here from all the self-proclaimed experts. Especially the one's who don't even own, or never have owned, the hardware being discussed.

Probably because that's a support forum.. so there are more issues with hardware than the actual posters of the forum.

I would think it best to learn now.. make the necessary adjustments(whether you agree with them or not).. backup highly critical data.. and move on with your life knowing that you bought yourself some cheap insurance from a data intergrity standpoint. But.. of course some will learn the hard way without knowing until it's too late.. or being ignorant of all the signs posted right in front of you.

I just try to post the yeild sign so the ones who care to see it may avoid problems.

 

[alaricljs]

Telling someone to stop using hibernation/sleep with Sandforce is slightly like blaming the victim of a rape for dressing provocatively. haha

The F'd up part about my disk failure was that I was sleeping my laptop all the time. It died on one of the very few times I shutdown the OS.

 

[F1shF4t]

groberts101,
Do you know if there ever will be a fix (or even if its possible) for 1st gen Sandforce controller to work with sleep/hybernate without it getting its panties in a twist eventually and panic locking? I still have my Corsair Force F115 with v2.4 fw which came back from RMA, so wondering what I can actually use it for

I assume the sf-2281 doesn't have such issues? Cause my Sandisk and Intel 520 are put to sleep few times a day.

 

[groberts101]

groberts101,
Do you know if there ever will be a fix (or even if its possible) for 1st gen Sandforce controller to work with sleep/hybernate without it getting its panties in a twist eventually and panic locking? I still have my Corsair Force F115 with v2.4 fw which came back from RMA, so wondering what I can actually use it for

I assume the sf-2281 doesn't have such issues? Cause my Sandisk and Intel 520 are put to sleep few times a day.

TBH, I'm not entirely convinced that it is possible to eliminate the issue on 100% of all systems and not to mention the various configs that can cause it.

Then again.. I'm also not entirely convinced that those controllers will have issues with just any config out there. There are certain variables involved and they can differ greatly between systems just based on the CMOS revision alone. It's pretty well known by now how picky those first gens can be sometimes.

I would say it like this. I've used 6 of the supposedly worst drives ever made(Vertex 2) in R0 for over 2 years now and don't have ANY issues with data integrity or firmware corruption.

BUT,.. I don't use S3 or S4 and don't ever plan on it even if they do supposedly get everything perfect some day. It will be too little.. too late, IMHO. Seen far too many issues and I'll never trust my personal drives to those types of power transitions on a repeated basis. I'm even leary of S3/S4 on the newer SF2281 controlled drives due to some slight similarities to the original. However more limited they may be in comparison.

Personally?.. I'd just use the thing as usual for an OS drive and avoid the sleep/hibernates. Store important data elsewhere and take a fresh backup or even incremental backups along the way and just use it. Get your moneys worth out of that thing and eventually use it as a scratch disk or USB 3.0 portable strorage when you do upgrade to larger and faster SSD.

Good luck with this one.

 

[kmmatney]

After putting together a WHS server about a year ago, I'm not sure how I ever lived without it. I have 7 SSDs in the house (3 Intel, 2 OCZ Agility 2, and 2 Samsungs) and just knowing they are all backed up automatically is real piece of mind. After the initial backups are made, further backups are incremental and very fast. The backups are also duplicated with drive extender. Having the server also allows you to keep all the media centralized, saving space (I use Serviio as the media server with WHS ver. 1).

 

[Cerb]

Are there any reliable SSDs out there?

No. Today, an HDD that worked well yesterday has a better chance of working well tomorrow than most SSDs. Intel SSDs, even, have up and bricked for some users. But, an HDD can also fail on the next reboot. Intel's 320 series is to a point where it appears to be on par w/ HDDs, though actual data on the subject is only available to Intel.

The most reliable storage that I know of today are AZO MCC (Verbatim Datalife Plus w/ the AZO icon) and TY DVDs, and tapes. There are probably some great BDs, but I'm not yet aware of who's making the best quality ones.

Look on the bright side: some people still use floppies, Zips, and Jazs .

 

[ControlD]

After putting together a WHS server about a year ago, I'm not sure how I ever lived without it. I have 7 SSDs in the house (3 Intel, 2 OCZ Agility 2, and 2 Samsungs) and just knowing they are all backed up automatically is real piece of mind. After the initial backups are made, further backups are incremental and very fast. The backups are also duplicated with drive extender. Having the server also allows you to keep all the media centralized, saving space (I use Serviio as the media server with WHS ver. 1).

Just wait until you get data corruption in the backup database rendering all of those client backups useless. Speaking from experience, do yourself a favor and keep an Acronis or other image of your machines in addition (or better yet in place of) the WHS backups.

 

[taltamir]

1. Lost emails: Switch to gmail, emails on cloud. Google manages backups. and if something does happen they WILL restore it for you from their backups. And your ISP wont keep on changing your email address / deleting it when you move.
You can also keep an offline backup for yourself (explanations on how to all over the web).
http://www.techspot.com/guides/370-backup-gmail/

2. Lost electronic copy of your taxes: Scan your paper copy. Ask your accountant for a copy. Or ask the government for a paper copy to scan.
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=110571,00.html

Simple, cheap...
Also, for gods sake keep backups. See my signature.

 

[blckgrffn]

Just wait until you get data corruption in the backup database rendering all of those client backups useless. Speaking from experience, do yourself a favor and keep an Acronis or other image of your machines in addition (or better yet in place of) the WHS backups.

Yeah, it's not real fun but I've had a)excellent luck (and that is what it is...) with WHS having what I need when I needed it and b)been able to repair that DB pretty well.

Migrating that DB to a new server again? Something I will never do. Just spit out all of that backed up data onto a client and start fresh. What a PITA.

That said, I only back up my wifes machine with WHS any more - since we keep all of our documents on the server (and from there, into the cloud) or in services like DropBox, the impetus for having full machine backups is less.

Plus, SSDs have made installing a Windows a trivially short endeavor, much more time is spent running updates...

 

[HOOfan 1]

Look on the bright side: some people still use floppies, Zips, and Jazs .

I had a Syquest SparQ drive back in the late 90's. It was the most unreliable piece of junk I have ever owned of ANYTHING.

The first drive I had failed after 3 months, I RMAed it and was sent a new drive. It seemed to work but several of the disks stopped working. I just cut my losses and ponied up for a bigger hard drive.

 

[sm625]

Well, for every new generation of SSDs you have to reset the clock and start fresh tracking reliability.

The problem is that when a company releases trash like this, I am done with them. They are done. OCZ is done. Sandforce is done. I will never buy a product from either company. They are trash and belong in the trash heap. I will never recommend anyone buy them. If I find someone has bought one, I will talk trash about it. When the product fails on them they will hate it even more so. These companies are doomed. It will take years of excellent quality to undo the damage they've done. But that is a moot thought because I bet they screw up again long before regaining anyone's trust. This product should have never been put on the market. There is no point in using an ssd to get more speed just to have to waste all your time fooling with backups and restores. That is ludicrous.

 

[groberts101]

^^ nothing but useless posturing and FUD. Means nothing to me or anyone else who has great success with their products. Some even use them in raid's! whoa.. crazy stuff there. :ninja:

And it's quite obvious that you don't speak for the millions of OCZ users worldwide.. or there probably wouldn't be... millions of OCZ users worldwide.

In the scheme of things and at its fullest scale.. it doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone else who forum hops around and learns to be a self taught SSD market analyst thinks or posts on a forum. OCZ is constantly pushing boundaries and releasing products 2 to 1 in comparison to some others. Which inevitably gives them market share. What does market share mean? Lots of $$$$$$$$$$

But is that really a good thing to have so many products to market so quickly if some of them aren't refined enough to win your heart over? It surely doesn't matter nearly as much as you(or anyone else who likes to fantasize around here) likes to imagine... many people will still buy them anyways. Again.. market share.

It's actually pretty comical to swing through here and read some of the self-righteous, stress venting, and far left wing'er comments. And there are plenty of others who come by for a laugh too. Sometimes it's like a bunch of pent up teenagers who are about to burst at the seems while vying for the attention of the 3 hottest girls at the party. They say things , they do things,.. they just can't see straight due to temporary blindness. It's only the smartest ones who can look back later on and see how little they actually knew.

But don't let me break you guys away from the "save us from the bad man" advocacy work going on here. Some great work so far. And such great results from yet so few too. Keep it up for another couple of months and you might just kill a few hundred sales, maybe even a couple thousand! No sarcasm intended, of course.

Now I'll finish with this as the final test question. We know the basic economic fact is that market share means.. lots and lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

The question is this.. do you and everyone else posturing about in threads like this one, really seriously think so highly of your limited access to the tiny little cross section of SSD industry that you gain access to daily on this forum,.. can take enough of those dollar signs away to make enough impact and give the effect you want?

Now don't get me wrong here.. if you got screwed in some way shape or form by OCZ?.. have at em'. Just don't blow the proportion of impact that a couple dozen regulars and few hundred redundant posts will make. Be realistic and remember that we're not exactly on network television in 12 countries here.

 

[m0reilly]

groberts is also available for public speaking engagements. please contact management at:
publicistgberts@wannapieceame.org

a little bit o' humor there, g

back in the day, after loosing 5 of 6 ultra scsi, a spat of ide, two raptors in a row, 3 15,000 rpm sas out of 8, and seeing ssds hanging in there first hand, i decided to go totally solid state. for the last 3 years i have had not one failed ssd. period (12 so far, and counting). storage options can fail, whether they are old school or new, fast or slug a$$ slow. back up. solid state storage, under the hood, is quite complex, and relatively new for general consumption (from reading the comments in this thread). wile i have had issues with many asus motherboards over the years, i still sample them, as they are generally great gear. i feel the same way re ssds and their different manufacturers.

 

[alaricljs]

I understand new technologies having some teething problems, but when your 2nd and 3rd gen drives are still crapping out in new and exciting ways you have to wonder how much QA/QE is going on. Back in the day when Seagate released the very first 4GB 3.5" drives (the ones that were as tall as a 5.25 drive bay!) the company I worked for was dying to get a pile of them.

We ended up buying 20 units over 4 days to get 10 units that weren't DOA. Those 10 DOAs took 18 RMAs to get 10 working units. Well, the client they were for got what they wanted and we stopped buying those drives until our vendor guaranteed better than 2% return rates.

Until OCZ gets that kind of enterprise experience I don't think their QA/QE is going to improve enough. They may be able to flood the market with drives that look good on paper, but they are definitely burning some small percentage of customers. I'm one of them, but I'm not gonna go nuts evangelizing against them. LSI buying SF is probably one of the best things to happen in regards to QA/QE of SF products. Maybe OCZ will get something from that, maybe not.

 

[bononos]

No.. it would be more like telling you're girlfriend not to hang out in bad neighborhood's when she's wearing that super short mini-skirt that you really dig.

........

Are you talking about all sandforce drives incl Intel ones?

 

[groberts101]

Are you talking about all sandforce drives incl Intel ones?

While I do admit that I would probably have less concern with an Intel variant?.. I was actually speaking about ALL Sandforce drives. But most particularly the original SF 1xxx series.

There are some very real similarities to older issues even with newer "highly validated" firmware revisions.

 

[BFG10K]

I won’t touch any SSD that includes the words "OCZ" or "Sandforce" in it. I don’t bad-mouth such products, I just avoid them.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Yeah, I'm definitely avoiding OCZ SSD when I get one. Have heard way too many bad things. No reason in risking it when there are plenty of others out there that don't have near as many failure complaints. Forget that. groberts can buy himself an extra OCZ to make up for it bothers him that much. Whatever.

 

[samboy]

I've also avoided OCZ and their products. Paid a little more for an Intel drive 12 months ago and not a single issue; I need a boot partition that I can trust.

I make recommendations to a lot of friends and OCZ is not on the list (spend a little more)

At the end of the day OCZ is probably a little cheaper (they have some good prices) but do this at the expense of QA. If you have the time/inclination and buy OCZ with open eyes and know what to expect then this is ok (and there is a market for this).

My opinion is that at the end of the day OCZ spends a little less (or not effectively) on QA and customers are buying their products with closed eyes and this is where the problem lies with OCZ; expectations are not being met (we want things a little cheaper with same quality). Other companies are being more successful on the QA front.

I'm actually very curious as to how well OCZ fares long term with repeat business and internet reputation. We will know in a few years who was right and who was wrong....... In the meantime I'm simply a spectator and not a participant!

 

[bradley]

No amount of histrionics (or persecution complexes) will make me buy alpha Sandforce or OCZ SSDs. However, as long as you don't value your data, you should be fine.

Hardware failures haven't been an issue my entire computing life, simply by avoiding questionable or proprietary hardware, not being an early adopter and doing my homework.

OCZ doesn't want anyone asking questions (i.e. prying) so their products leave me uninterested, no matter how inexpensive their price points. Not to mention, their attitutes and customer relations pervasively smell.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...-and-Vertex-4-use-Marvell-based-Silicon/page4

Everest1 is proprietary, we sell it
Everest2 is proprietary, we can and will sell it

No one else has this, its fabbed by Marvel for OCZ...end of story, no more on this now, you have everything you need to know.

Ao1...no more fishing and what we regard as trouble causing on the forum....im asking you now to post else where, im not banning you at all, i just would rather you did not post here. If you have questions regards anything OCZ we have a PR dept you can talk too.

Thank you.

 

[Coup27]

I love how the above thread got shut down straight after Ao1 posted. His post contained factual quotes from their own CEO about it being their own controller. Just because those quotes go against the current company line they shut down the thread and "suggested" Ao1 leaves their forum.