Another Vista Windows Defender and UAC Thread

[Woofmeister]

I'm not willing to lose the added protection of Windows Defender and UAC, but I need RivaTuner to start up automatically in order to control the fans on my 8800GTXs. Without Riva, I'm running into the high 70s at idle because the blasted Forceware drivers do not automatically ramp up the fans at a low enough temp.

Yes, I can manually click through all the warning windows and start Riva on each reboot if I remember, but this is ridiculous. Why didn't MSFT give the user some ability to designate a trusted startup program? Failing that, why doesn't MSFT at least have some process for submitting commonly used programs to be certified "safe" for startup?

Surely if Logitech Setpoint and Steam can be safely run at startup, so can Riva. Even Apple's stupid bloated Quicktime manages to install itself in my start up menu under Vista.

 

[Matthias99]

Surely if Logitech Setpoint and Steam can be safely run at startup, so can Riva. Even Apple's stupid bloated Quicktime manages to install itself in my start up menu under Vista.

These programs probably aren't trying to talk directly to your hardware or video drivers like Rivatuner is. Or else the program is badly written (or at least not updated for Vista) and is trying to do something that requires UAC permission when it really doesn't need to.

Personally, I still think there should be some method of whitelisting an executable from UAC -- hide it or make it difficult if you need to, but have some way to do it (like they do for unsigned drivers). However, not having any mechanism like that does make UAC somewhat more reliable (since you can't trick a user into whitelisting some piece of malware).

 

[Woofmeister]

Rivatuner is freeware. It's unreasonable to expect somebody to drop everything and go to the time and trouble of updating an application for Vista when the application is not even covering the costs of development. That's why we're in agreement that Vista's UAC should include some method of whitelisting.

There are lots of great freeware programs out there that we all want to make use of and Vista's UAC is making that exceedingly difficult.

 

[bsobel]

It's unreasonable to expect somebody to drop everything and go to the time and trouble of updating an application for Vista when the application is not even covering the costs of development.

It is reasonable to expect Nvidia to fix the underlying issue, however.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: bsobel

It's unreasonable to expect somebody to drop everything and go to the time and trouble of updating an application for Vista when the application is not even covering the costs of development.

It is reasonable to expect Nvidia to fix the underlying issue, however.

Rivatuner is not produced or backed in any way by Nvidia.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Surely if Logitech Setpoint and Steam can be safely run at startup, so can Riva. Even Apple's stupid bloated Quicktime manages to install itself in my start up menu under Vista.

These programs probably aren't trying to talk directly to your hardware or video drivers like Rivatuner is. Or else the program is badly written (or at least not updated for Vista) and is trying to do something that requires UAC permission when it really doesn't need to.

Personally, I still think there should be some method of whitelisting an executable from UAC -- hide it or make it difficult if you need to, but have some way to do it (like they do for unsigned drivers). However, not having any mechanism like that does make UAC somewhat more reliable (since you can't trick a user into whitelisting some piece of malware).

Bingo...these apps don't try to modify the registry in a way that interferes with how hardware performs. I believe that Vista monitors this to some extent and will block certain suspicious changes.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: bsobel

It's unreasonable to expect somebody to drop everything and go to the time and trouble of updating an application for Vista when the application is not even covering the costs of development.

It is reasonable to expect Nvidia to fix the underlying issue, however.

Rivatuner is not produced or backed in any way by Nvidia.

"blasted Forceware drivers do not automatically ramp up the fans at a low enough temp"

This is the underlying issue, not the free product he's using to mask it. He pointed out it's unreasonable to expect the third party to update quickly since it's free. However it's NOT unreasonable to expect Nvidia to fix the underlying issue.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: bsobel

It's unreasonable to expect somebody to drop everything and go to the time and trouble of updating an application for Vista when the application is not even covering the costs of development.

It is reasonable to expect Nvidia to fix the underlying issue, however.

Rivatuner is not produced or backed in any way by Nvidia.

"blasted Forceware drivers do not automatically ramp up the fans at a low enough temp"

This is the underlying issue, not the free product he's using to mask it. He pointed out it's unreasonable to expect the third party to update quickly since it's free. However it's NOT unreasonable to expect Nvidia to fix the underlying issue.

Well, since Nvidia doesn't support Rivatuner at all it IS unreasonable to expect them to support something or change the way their drivers work based on that alone. There are other ways to change fan speed manually.

 

[bsobel]

Well, since Nvidia doesn't support Rivatuner at all it IS unreasonable to expect them to support something or change the way their drivers work based on that alone. There are other ways to change fan speed manually.

Ill be as clear as possible. If the nvidia drivers aren't spinning up at the correct temperature, a third party application shouldn't be required to deal with it, nvidia should fix the problem.

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Well, since Nvidia doesn't support Rivatuner at all it IS unreasonable to expect them to support something or change the way their drivers work based on that alone. There are other ways to change fan speed manually.

Ill be as clear as possible. If the nvidia drivers aren't spinning up at the correct temperature, a third party application shouldn't be required to deal with it, nvidia should fix the problem.

You're both right. Ultimately, I shouldn't have to depend on a third-party application to spin my 8800GTX fans at 85% instead of the driver's default 60% that shoots my temps up over 75c at idle.

That being said, Riva Tuner allows you to do much more than control fan speed and its overclocking utility blows NVIDIA's away.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
Rivatuner is freeware. It's unreasonable to expect somebody to drop everything and go to the time and trouble of updating an application for Vista when the application is not even covering the costs of development. That's why we're in agreement that Vista's UAC should include some method of whitelisting.

There are lots of great freeware programs out there that we all want to make use of and Vista's UAC is making that exceedingly difficult.

Rivatuner is freeware, it's unreasonable to expect software to work!

:roll:

You're talking about software that was written for a different OS (xp), keep that in mind. There is nothing about UAC that is preventing properly written software from working.

If someone is writing software that is free they should pretty much expect to lose money on it. It's nutbag to expect otherwise. If they need to keep the software updated they need to either charge for it or make it open source and allow someone else to do it...or expect people to use something else.

 

[mechBgon]

Does RivaTuner start using a shortcut in the Start > All Programs > Startup folder? Right-click the shortcut, hit the Properties, Compatibility tab, and set it to run as Administrator. If it doesn't auto-start by that method, just find RivaTuner or its shortcut and go through that procedure anyway.

Any good?

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Does RivaTuner start using a shortcut in the Start > All Programs > Startup folder? Right-click the shortcut, hit the Properties, Compatibility tab, and set it to run as Administrator. If it doesn't auto-start by that method, just find RivaTuner or its shortcut and go through that procedure anyway.Any good?

How will that prevent the UAC prompt? It will run elevated, but the system will still ask first... (right?)

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Does RivaTuner start using a shortcut in the Start > All Programs > Startup folder? Right-click the shortcut, hit the Properties, Compatibility tab, and set it to run as Administrator. If it doesn't auto-start by that method, just find RivaTuner or its shortcut and go through that procedure anyway.Any good?

How will that prevent the UAC prompt? It will run elevated, but the system will still ask first... (right?)

See, but I'm not sure it's starting RivaTuner that is the cause of the prompt. Maybe it's something that RT does after starting. I don't know, since I don't use it. I'll try to find something that behaves like that, and see if the prompt comes up. For example, when Adobe Reader 8 starts, it causes a UAC prompt after 20-30 seconds when it tries to run Adobe Update Manager. So I'll make that my guinea pig and report what happens.

Bigger picture: 70C is not an unreasonable temperature for the GPU core to be idling at, I don't think. They normally run right on up to 100C, from what I've read.


Woofmeister, what version of Vista do you have, by the way? If it's Ultimate or Business, there might be some trinkets in Group Policy Editor that would resolve your issue... I'll rummage in there and see.

 

[mechBgon]

Results inconclusive; Adobe Reader isn't very helpful as a test case here. Run As Administrator might at least cut it down to one UAC prompt. It might also be worth trying Windows XP SP2 compatibility mode.

 

[Rilex]

Compatibility modes will not bypass UAC. No method will (besides turning it off which is unsupported by MS). The only supported method would be to use Task Scheduler to run the task.

 

[mechBgon]

Actually, there may be another Microsoft solution. I'm too tired tonight to mess around with it, but if you scroll about 80% down this page, you'll see what I'm looking at: Understanding and Configuring User Account Control in Windows Vista

They've released app compatibility fixes via Windows Update a couple times already, so it may be fixed by Microsoft themselves at some point. Another workaround would be to not shut the computer down.

:moon:

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Well, since Nvidia doesn't support Rivatuner at all it IS unreasonable to expect them to support something or change the way their drivers work based on that alone. There are other ways to change fan speed manually.

Ill be as clear as possible. If the nvidia drivers aren't spinning up at the correct temperature, a third party application shouldn't be required to deal with it, nvidia should fix the problem.

Nvidia never ment their fan to spin up to 85% like you want that's obvious. It's not broken. It just doesn't work as you want, but I guarantee there's 200other people who don't even care. That's why you can NOT blame Nvidia. 75C is hot sure, but it's well within the temperature boundaries of the GPU.

 

[bsobel]

Nvidia never ment their fan to spin up to 85% like you want that's obvious. It's not broken. It just doesn't work as you want, but I guarantee there's 200other people who don't even care. That's why you can NOT blame Nvidia. 75C is hot sure, but it's well within the temperature boundaries of the GPU.

I think you meant to be directing your comments at the OP, not me... I really don't care what temp his fans spin up at

 

[Lord Banshee]

this might help

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=226624