ANTEC P180 available ( silver only)

[MidNiteMysT]

i do agree with a lot of what furballi said. and pretty much all of it is true.

 

[Blain]

Air flow on the P180 looks like it would be great. :thumbsup:
But not great enough for me to like the plain aluminum box look! :thumbsdown:
I hate "doors" BTW. :laugh:

 

[Capt Caveman]

Nice thing though is that the door can be swung all the way flush to the case, thus no door if you don't like it. Can't wait to finally get it.

 

[Red and black]

Originally posted by: furballi
Intake air must make a sharp 90 degree turn when entering the case with the front door closed. This will result in more air turbulence and lower efficiency when compared to a traditional front vent design.

Noise will also have to make that turn. If you don't need the extra damping, take off the front door, or leave it open.

Originally posted by: furballi
The top-mounted vent allows dust particles to settle inside the case. It also redirects exhaust noise out the top of the PC.

As stated in the SPCR article, for extra quietness you should cover the top vent. As far as dust settling in: given that it's an exhaust fan, this could only happen while the machine is off. And depending on where you have your machine set up, it may not get lots of dust settling. But yes, you could potentially get a bit of dust settling in while the machine is off, if you don't drop a hankie over it or something.

Originally posted by: furballi
Note the positioning of the rectangular VIDEO air INTAKE duct (middle right of the back panel). This duct is positioned between the top hexagonal exhaust vent for the PC and the bottom rectangular exhaust vent for the power supply. Hot rising exhaust air is re-directed back into the case via the video air intake duct!

Yes, I think that is true, and I had already mentioned it on this thread.

Originally posted by: furballi
I prefer to apply Dynamat or equivalent to the side panels. This is a cheaper and more effective solution to the noise problem.

Nothing is stopping you from putting dampening material in the case, as mentioned in the SPCR article.

Originally posted by: furballi
We see the power supply cage at the bottom left of these pictures. An extra long power supply will come very close to the 120 mm case fan located midway in the bottom chamber, resulting in excessive air turbulence.

So use a power supply that is not extra long, and is otherwise suited for a front-to-back airflow.

Originally posted by: furballi
If we remove the 120 mm case fan as suggested by this article, then the heat from the four front hard drives would have to go through the power supply before exiting the case. This will result in a very HIGH temperature at the power supply.

As mentioned in the SPCR article, hard drives do not dissipate much heat at all, compared to the PSU, CPU, or (powerful) graphics card. Even after passing by the HDs, the air for the PSU will likely be cooler than case air in a more conventional system.

Originally posted by: furballi
Remember that in a traditional ATX case, the 100W of heat from the CPU is dissipated 360 degree into the motherboard (cooling fan blowing into the CPU). The rear 120 mm case fan AND the power supply share the duty of heat extraction. Very few power supplies will run at 80% efficiency. 75% is a more realistic number.

Are you saying that the case will have insufficient airflow to cool the CPU? With two 120mm exhaust fans and one 120mm intake fan? Or in some other configuration?

in many cases (including mine), a low-flow PSU and a single low-speed 120mm exhaust fan are sufficient to keep the CPU very cool.

Originally posted by: furballi
You pay big bucks for a case only to find that you should use SATA hard drives to provide adequate cooling to the power supply!

It does indeed look like airflow would be better with SATA rather than PATA cables. On the other hand, if you have only one or two HDs in the lower area, there will still be plenty of space under them for air to flow.

Originally posted by: furballi
I also don't like to mount the hard drive vertically, as this will place an uneven load on the main drive bearing assembly.

Do you have a source for the claim that this will damage the HD?

 

[rise]

i wonder if snaking the 24 pin down there up to the top right of the mobo will reach? i can almost guarantee my x-clio wouldn't make it.

maybe my tpII would, i would hope so as its an antec

 

[JBDan]

Originally posted by: DanDaMan315
Don't like it. Rather have a CM Stacker.

Never understood the point of doors on cases....

The doors "cut" a lot of noise out.

 

[clarkkent333]

Plus it keeps the lights on my fan controller from lighting up my whole room. Very handy. Especially the 270 design. Can't tell you how many times I broke off the door on my Sonata. What a pain in the ass that was.

 

[JBDan]

lol those flimsy/crappy sonata 1 doors. My dad told me to just rip the daRn door off (pc I built for him) cause he hits it with his leg just about everyday. Its about to fall off on its own I think.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: Red and black

Originally posted by: furballi
Note the positioning of the rectangular VIDEO air INTAKE duct (middle right of the back panel). This duct is positioned between the top hexagonal exhaust vent for the PC and the bottom rectangular exhaust vent for the power supply. Hot rising exhaust air is re-directed back into the case via the video air intake duct!

Yes, I think that is true, and I had already mentioned it on this thread.

In the last picture at http://silentpcreview.com/article249-page4.html the slot where the video cards would go are shown to be recessed. Perhaps only 1/2 of an inch. With the air from the PSU being exhausted could the air be pushed out far enough to have minimal impact on the video card?

Doesn't the video card normally reside in the slot furthest away from the PSU?

Given a combination of these two possibliities it seems that any warm air that might be sucked into the video card should ahve time to be cooled by the out-of-the case air.

Assume, however, I were running SLI 6800 Ultras (not!) perhaps the case should be modded with a hood over the PSU but below the card slots which would cause the air to be exhausted 3-6 inches further out.


However, I was wanting to install a Phantom 500 in this case. I'm not so sure it would fit. It may be that a good Seasonic is required. How much room between the PSU and that middle fan is needed? Perhaps the fan can be changed to thinner fan. More noise but possibly less than going from a Phantom 500 to a Seasonic. Opinions?

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: Red and black

Originally posted by: furballi
However, I was wanting to install a Phantom 500 in this case. I'm not so sure it would fit. It may be that a good Seasonic is required. How much room between the PSU and that middle fan is needed? Perhaps the fan can be changed to thinner fan. More noise but possibly less than going from a Phantom 500 to a Seasonic. Opinions?

IIRC, the Silent PC Review article states specifically that there's enough room for a Phantom. It would be rather shortsighted of Antec to build their "case of the century" with insufficient room for their most advanced PSU.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Red and black

Originally posted by: furballi
I also don't like to mount the hard drive vertically, as this will place an uneven load on the main drive bearing assembly.

Do you have a source for the claim that this will damage the HD?

L0L :laugh:
What a N00B...
Around here, we just say a thing, and that makes it so!

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: milleronIIRC, the Silent PC Review article states specifically that there's enough room for a Phantom. It would be rather shortsighted of Antec to build their "case of the century" with insufficient room for their most advanced PSU.

My reasoning for questioning it was that over the years I have read many such statements only to find out it was theory and not tested.

By my estimates there is only between .7 and 1.1" (18mm to 28mm) of clearance between the Phantom 500 and the mid-case fan. Given the jumbled mess of cables (mentioned in the SPCR review of the 500) there is precious little room between the PSU and fan.

However, Mike Chin speaks specifically on this issue:

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto...2354&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

Asked by Romeo:
Would a Phantom 500 with the fan off work in the P180 with the airflow of that lower chamber 120mm TriCool?

Isn't the fan thermally controlled though? What I'm getting at is that if the 120mm TriCool keeps the temperature below 55C, then the fan in the Phantom won't turn on.

Response by MikeC:
Yes, that's perfectly correct.

Here's a preview of a review conclusion: There's hardly a PSU in any system that could not be cooled in the bottom chamber with the TriCool fan set even at low -- assuming reasonable ambient temps (say under 30c anyway) -- maybe even with the drive cage filled with drives. Has to be documented / verified, but that what it seems like so far.

So, the solution, if there is lack of room, is to remove the fan from the Phantom 500.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Red and black

Originally posted by: furballi
I also don't like to mount the hard drive vertically, as this will place an uneven load on the main drive bearing assembly.

Do you have a source for the claim that this will damage the HD?

I've actually spent a fair amount of time attemping to find anything definitive on this question. I've found absolutely nothing. Furballi's statement is clearly solely his opinion, perhaps based on some bad experience with a vertically-mounted HD.

It appears that any difference in reliability is small (do you really think the HD manufacturers would include vertically-mounted HDs in the warranty coverage if there was a significant difference?), and I highly doubt that a single individual could possibly have sufficient objective data (based on hundreds of HDs) available to conclude otherwise.

 

[Legato895]

if you've ever opened up a dell case, all of them i've been in have a custom vertical harddrive bracket at the very front of the case... and hell... dell's cases usually have a crap ton of wasted room.

i would say that if dell does it, they have done the reasearch, kuz it wouldn't make sence risking failures, regardless of %

 

[drifter106]

Originally posted by: DanDaMan315
Don't like it. Rather have a CM Stacker.

Never understood the point of doors on cases....

valid point... stacker is a very well make and workable solution...

on the other hand I am building another system and want a smaller unit, don't know if this is what I want for sure but thanks for the heads up....glad to see it has 120 fans and it does have 3 of them... will be hard to beat the stacker as far as working (assembling the hardware) is concerned, lots of room...

 

[furballi]

Simple physics. Draw a free body diagram of the loads on the main bearing in the horizontal and vertical positions. The loads are evenly distributed AROUND the bearing in the horizontal state. Translation, longer bearing life. I wouldn't use DELL PCs as models for engineering excellence.

A hard drive used to carry 3 yr warranty. Currently, most are backed with 1 yr warranty. Want more proofs?

The pickup heads move in a horizontal plane (in and out) if the hard drive rests in the horizontal position. There is no changes in potential energy. Again, less wear and tear on the head actuation mechanism. This would also apply to any point on the disc platter.

If you were attached to the outer edge of a vertically mounted hard drive, your change in potential energy for each disc revolution would be 2x the distance to the center of the disc platter.

 

[Phantronius]

I don't care if I have to kill someone, I WILL have that black P180 case in my room by my Birthday!

 

[Cheesetogo]

Endpcnoise is taking preorders for the black one now. But the pictures don't show it as the SPCR edition (it's not written on the bottom of the door) and it's not in the title either. Is it the SPCR edition?

 

[Phantronius]

Originally posted by: Cheesetogo
Endpcnoise is taking preorders for the black one now. But the pictures don't show it as the SPCR edition (it's not written on the bottom of the door) and it's not in the title either. Is it the SPCR edition?

Where damnit, where??????

 

[Granorense]

Preorder at $129 Here

 

[hofffam]

This talk about potential energy and wear and tear is useless and probably doesn't really address the HD issue at all.

First of all - the actuator (head assembly) on the hard disk does not move "in and out." It rotates over a small range like a record player tonearm. You claim that if you put the HD in a vertical position the wear and tear is increased because of the change in potential energy. In other words you say the actuator now has to fight gravity to rotate. I suggest a disadvantage of horizontal placement is the effect of gravity on the heads themselves. Gravity will apply constant force on the heads downward, toward the upper surface of the platter. Gravity will apply constant force on the heads underneath, away from the platter. Vertical placement of the drive neutralizes this effect. A tradeoff I'd say.

The platter bearing of a horizontal disk drive, as it wears, will allow wobble (however minute) to develop over time. If the wobble becomes excessive - the surface of the platter will not maintain constant contact with the heads. Gravity will also tend to drive lubricant downward in the bearing. A vertical hard disk puts the axle in an inherently stable position and should not cause wobble. Gravity will push lubricant to the bottom of the bearing, but the axle will constantly and equally pass through this "puddle" of lubricant. I think your comment about potential energy on the edge of a platter is misguided. As any point on a platter moves from the bottom to the top - it is countered equally by a point on the opposite of the platter since it is in balance. If it is not in balance the bearing will face uneven wear - which would be a problem with horizontal or vertical placement.

I don't suggest vertical is superior to horizontal. Only the drive makers know. But they warrant their drives equally for either position.

 

[furballi]

Yeah...minus 2 yrs for must hard drives.

Where did you received your engineer degree?

 

[Phantronius]

Hey Fur, you might wanna get enlightened over a these threads

P180 Design discussion

HDD mounting demystified

 

[AndyD2k]

black will only be available as limited edition? I really rather not pay around $200 to endpcnoise

 

[Phantronius]

Originally posted by: AndyD2k
black will only be available as limited edition? I really rather not pay around $200 to endpcnoise

It will only be produced for 2005 and thats the end of it after that.