Anti Boy Scouts....GRRRRRR.

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
they don't let atheists in, it is part of the scout oath to do your best ...to "God" and country...</end quote></div>

No wai! :brokenheart:


are you a brick? I mentioned that I was going to be discriminated against. Then you explained I was going to be discriminated against. Great. A+'s you got in school for sure. I'm sure people love it when you repeat what they said back.</end quote></div>

wow, guess someone can't confirm what you said to be true, or else they are less than intelligent...what point are you trying to prove now?</end quote></div>
wow you did it again.

yeah...she agreed. you went off on her (you are a her right? sorry if not).

she just explained why. sheesh stop being a tard.

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
Kudo's to the BSA for not taking religion out of their program. Political views pushed it out of schools, but I'm glad there is a long lasting insitution that is keeping God in their program. God is who our founding father's believed in.

which god? there are many?

 

[FiddleDD]

Originally posted by: Kaervak
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
they don't let atheists in, it is part of the scout oath to do your best ...to "God" and country...</end quote></div>

Clarify this for me, I really don't like twisting people's words. What I'm getting from the above statement is that the BSA thinks athiests can't be good people working to benefit their country because they don't believe in a god. Hence they don't allow them in their orginization. Correct, partially correct, not even close?

(shrugging) I don't know, I'm not a spokesperson for BSA, this is only a forum where I'm spouting off my opinion on this subject. If I were to venture a guess, I would say that the BSA believe that athiests can be good people working to benefit their country. But this organization has been around for a long time, with the belief that faith in God is something that is worthy of joining the group.

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
they don't let atheists in, it is part of the scout oath to do your best ...to "God" and country...</end quote></div>

No wai! :brokenheart:


are you a brick? I mentioned that I was going to be discriminated against. Then you explained I was going to be discriminated against. Great. A+'s you got in school for sure. I'm sure people love it when you repeat what they said back.</end quote></div>

wow, guess someone can't confirm what you said to be true, or else they are less than intelligent...what point are you trying to prove now?</end quote></div>
wow you did it again.</end quote></div>

yeah...she agreed. you went off on her (you are a her right? sorry if not).

she just explained why. sheesh stop being a tard.

No I explained I was going to be discriminated against. She implied I was a child molester. I explained it was because I was an atheist. She said because your an atheist. Great. It was because of how she viewed atheism and child molestation synonomous. Thanks and stop butting in.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
If I were to venture a guess, I would say that the BSA believe that athiests can be good people working to benefit their country.

But you don't.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: FettsBabe
Boy Scouts are reverent to God. You can be reverent and do unto God as the organization believes if you don't believe in God.

They wouldn't necessarily kick you out immediately. With parents approval they would probably try to work with you to try to show you God's word and let them decide. If you then chose not to believe then you also decide to leave Scouts.

There are other groups like Scouts that you could join that doesn't necessarily do reverence to God.

Although, at my school, we did prayers before sporting games, which means that we couldn't use the Berkeley marina. OMG, now schools don't get to use the marina. What is the world coming to???? LOL

and many schools are getting sued for prayers also.

if someone wants to pray before a sporting event it should be up to them though and not the schools. WE always had a few that would pray before football and wrestling matches.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: FettsBabe
Boy Scouts are reverent to God. You can be reverent and do unto God as the organization believes if you don't believe in God.

They wouldn't necessarily kick you out immediately. With parents approval they would probably try to work with you to try to show you God's word and let them decide. If you then chose not to believe then you also decide to leave Scouts.

There are other groups like Scouts that you could join that doesn't necessarily do reverence to God.

Although, at my school, we did prayers before sporting games, which means that we couldn't use the Berkeley marina. OMG, now schools don't get to use the marina. What is the world coming to???? LOL

Actually I was refused entry at all because I denied the existence of God. So yes, they are wholly discriminatory, and therefore should not receive dollar 1 of public funding, nor should they be allowed in any government building (which includes schools).

 

[yllus]

This thread is amazingly comical, and not because people are trying to be funny.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: yllus
This thread is amazingly comical, and not because people are trying to be funny.

When people reminisce about the old guard that made this a great place, I'm pretty sure that the cause of that nostalgia isn't found in this thread.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
they don't let atheists in, it is part of the scout oath to do your best ...to "God" and country...</end quote></div>

No wai! :brokenheart:


are you a brick? I mentioned that I was going to be discriminated against. Then you explained I was going to be discriminated against. Great. A+'s you got in school for sure. I'm sure people love it when you repeat what they said back.</end quote></div>

wow, guess someone can't confirm what you said to be true, or else they are less than intelligent...what point are you trying to prove now?</end quote></div>
wow you did it again.</end quote></div>

yeah...she agreed. you went off on her (you are a her right? sorry if not).

she just explained why. sheesh stop being a tard.</end quote></div>

No I explained I was going to be discriminated against. She implied I was a child molester. I explained it was because I was an atheist. She said because your an atheist. Great. It was because of how she viewed atheism and child molestation synonomous. Thanks and stop butting in.

her saying you would mollest children was silly. personally i think that should be a bannable offence (probably a good thing i am not a mod heh).

but that was not what you argued about. she repeated what you said (confirming it) and you went off on that. wich is what i said was you being a tard.


oh and for the record i dont see it as her saying molestation and ateism as synonomous. we were talking about how the BSA has worked hard to stop it before.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: silverpig

it does not matter who could. its a private club. only thing that would matter is if they are getting government help (which i doubt they are).

private club has the right discriminate. just the problem comes in with government funding. once they accept that they have to obey all laws. mainly that they can not discriminate based on race, religion (or lack of) and sex.

Well, further to that, Augusta doesn't advertise and try to recruit new members the way BSA does. Saying "Come join us!" and then, "except you of course," is a bit different than just playing golf.

 

[FettsBabe]

"The high court disagrees. "

There has to be some legal wording that is causing this ruling. I would like to read it. I bet it was just a discount for the BSA and NOT a GROUP DISCOUNT.

They can't NOT give the BSA a discount if they give Group Discounts to everyone else because that in turn causes them to discriminate. I don't see sexual orientation as a discrimination issue per the gov. that doesn't even recognize same sex marriage. They discriminate themselves.

If you are going to refer to it, please post the ruling and all facts about it. You shouldn't say the "high court disagrees" unless you post proof of this and statements and facts from the court itself. A court transcript will suffice.

You can tell the HIGH COURT that until they recognize same sex marriage and tell the courts that it is an American right that they cannot discriminate against the Boy Scouts who say they can't be a member. Tell the high court to put their beliefs into action. Until then the gov. you are supporting is doing the same thing.

 

[FiddleDD]

Originally posted by: Howard
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
Kudo's to the BSA for not taking religion out of their program. Political views pushed it out of schools, but I'm glad there is a long lasting insitution that is keeping God in their program. God is who our founding father's believed in.</end quote></div>
Funny that they didn't mandate faith in God, eh?

luckily the U.S.A. is made of many different people, and the rules for the land of many different people of beliefs is accommodating, including the right of the BSA to continue its belief in God

 

[Kaervak]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FettsBabe
Boy Scouts are reverent to God. You can be reverent and do unto God as the organization believes if you don't believe in God.

They wouldn't necessarily kick you out immediately. With parents approval they would probably try to work with you to try to show you God's word and let them decide. If you then chose not to believe then you also decide to leave Scouts.

There are other groups like Scouts that you could join that doesn't necessarily do reverence to God.

Although, at my school, we did prayers before sporting games, which means that we couldn't use the Berkeley marina. OMG, now schools don't get to use the marina. What is the world coming to???? LOL</end quote></div>

Noted, however that doesn't answer my question. Do they believe an athiest cannot do good to benefit their country/community?

For anyone wondering, I'm agnostic with a lean towards athiest, I was a boy scout years ago and currently am an EMT-Basic (eventually Paramedic) currently working with a municipal EMS/fire department.



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
(shrugging) I don't know, I'm not a spokesperson for BSA, this is only a forum where I'm spouting off my opinion on this subject. If I were to venture a guess, I would say that the BSA believe that athiests can be good people working to benefit their country. But this organization has been around for a long time, with the belief that faith in God is something that is worthy of joining the group.</end quote></div>


If that's the case, to me that's fine. I would be royally pissed off if their reasoning behind it was because they didn't think an athiest could be a good person.

 

[FiddleDD]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Howard
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
If I were to venture a guess, I would say that the BSA believe that athiests can be good people working to benefit their country.</end quote></div>
But you don't.
</end quote></div>

You are assuming without knowing who I am.

 

[FiddleDD]

wow thanks waggster for sticking up for me, what you are saying is what I meant, and I won't get banned for saying that because ...well just because lol

 

[FiddleDD]

Originally posted by: yllus
This thread is amazingly comical, and not because people are trying to be funny.

HEY!!! I'm somewhat trying to be funny how in the heck are you tonight?

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Praxis1452
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
they don't let atheists in, it is part of the scout oath to do your best ...to "God" and country...</end quote></div>

No wai! :brokenheart:


are you a brick? I mentioned that I was going to be discriminated against. Then you explained I was going to be discriminated against. Great. A+'s you got in school for sure. I'm sure people love it when you repeat what they said back.</end quote></div>

wow, guess someone can't confirm what you said to be true, or else they are less than intelligent...what point are you trying to prove now?</end quote></div>
wow you did it again.</end quote></div>

yeah...she agreed. you went off on her (you are a her right? sorry if not).

she just explained why. sheesh stop being a tard.</end quote></div>

No I explained I was going to be discriminated against. She implied I was a child molester. I explained it was because I was an atheist. She said because your an atheist. Great. It was because of how she viewed atheism and child molestation synonomous. Thanks and stop butting in.
</end quote></div>

her saying you would mollest children was silly. personally i think that should be a bannable offence (probably a good thing i am not a mod heh).

but that was not what you argued about. she repeated what you said (confirming it) and you went off on that. wich is what i said was you being a tard.


oh and for the record i dont see it as her saying molestation and ateism as synonomous. we were talking about how the BSA has worked hard to stop it before.

Follow this logic. I mention discrimination. She posits that I'm a child molester. ok. Now in reality I'd be discriminated because I'm an atheist. She posits the child molestor to insult. Secondly it also places my atheism(though not really) with all the other things that might be bannable by the BSA. The fact that she brings child molesting to the forefront makes it seem like atheism and molestation are on the same level. I can write a bit more if you need it. If you read my original post and her response pretending to have an atheistic viewpoint I think you'll get it.

Now. onward. Yes I have very little patience for people who repeat something obvious to me. If you agree say it. "you are correct" Saying something obvious always comes with a big fat "No shit sherlock?" Or perhaps that's just my enviroment. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant.

 

[FettsBabe]

Howard how have you been? I'm sorry you were refused entry. There are alot of other organizations that you could join. I know it probably hurt, but it would be impossible for you to be reverent if you didn't believe. BSA accepts all types of religions as long as they believe in God Almighty! LOL.

I certainly believe people that don't believe in God can be good people. In fact, I believe everyone is a good person until they prove me wrong. I know people have challenges when it comes to faith and some are more accepting of faith than others. Some people are just more scientifical. I struggle myself sometimes, but I know that I truly do believe. I am sometimes scientifical too.

I sympathize with your experience and trust me all troops are not like that. I, as a leader, would have taken you in and helped you find an organization that would accept you for you. Even if I would have allowed you in, you would quit. It would be hard for you to take an oath that you didn't believe. Your own moral convictions as a good person would prevent you from doing that.

I know you are a good person. I remember you from years ago.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Howard
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
If I were to venture a guess, I would say that the BSA believe that athiests can be good people working to benefit their country.</end quote></div>
But you don't.
</end quote></div>

you are assuming, I have a son who does not believe in God, and I love him dearly.

You did not deny my assumption.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: FettsBabe
"The high court disagrees. "

There has to be some legal wording that is causing this ruling. I would like to read it. I bet it was just a discount for the BSA and NOT a GROUP DISCOUNT.

They can't NOT give the BSA a discount if they give Group Discounts to everyone else because that in turn causes them to discriminate. I don't see sexual orientation as a discrimination issue per the gov. that doesn't even recognize same sex marriage. They discriminate themselves.

If you are going to refer to it, please post the ruling and all facts about it. You shouldn't say the "high court disagrees" unless you post proof of this and statements and facts from the court itself. A court transcript will suffice.

You can tell the HIGH COURT that until they recognize same sex marriage and tell the courts that it is an American right that they cannot discriminate against the Boy Scouts who say they can't be a member. Tell the high court to put their beliefs into action. Until then the gov. you are supporting is doing the same thing.

pdf link to court rulling

link ot article that explains it in laymens terms.


"Berkeley had let the Sea Scouts -- which teach sailing and related skills -- use city-owned berths free of charge for decades, but passed a 1997 ordinance banning subsidies for groups that discriminate. There have been no specific discrimination allegations against the Sea Scouts, but since refusing to disavow the BSA's policy, they have had to pay for their berth. The state Court of Appeal in 2002 upheld an Alameda County Superior Court judge's ruling that the Sea Scouts had no case against the city.

Plaintiffs' attorney Jonathan Gordon of Pleasant Hill, who argued the case to the state Supreme Court in January, couldn't be reached for comment Thursday.

He had argued that the Sea Scouts have been punished for something they haven't done just because they're tied to a group the city doesn't like. But "(t)hat Berkeley officials were unaware of any past discrimination by the Sea Scouts does not mean none would occur in the future," Werdegar wrote Thursday.

The justices agreed with Berkeley that a government "may constitutionally require a recipient of funding or subsidy to provide written, unambiguous assurances of compliance with a generally applicable nondiscrimination policy. We further agree Berkeley reasonably concluded the Sea Scouts did not and could not provide satisfactory assurances because of their required adherence to BSA's discriminatory policies."
"




berkely has a ordinace saying that if you discriminate you do not get a subsidery (they were getting it free when everyone else has to pay).

shrug i think it is the right ruleing. you discrimante you do not get a goverment subsidery in any way, shape or form (this goes for any group not just the BSA).


I am not saying the BSA needs to be disbanded or that people should nto give to them. I am saying that taxpayers should nto be helping in any way.

 

[FettsBabe]

People that don't believe in God are not on the same level as child molesters. Anyone can be a child molester. We just have to find them and put them under the jail! I'm sure God lovers, God disbelievers and even some Satanists probably feel this way.

People that don't believe in God can be good people and that is a BSA belief. In fact, I think most people are great people, not just good.

We respect them. They just can't take our oath because they don't believe in God.

 

[FiddleDD]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Howard
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Howard
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
If I were to venture a guess, I would say that the BSA believe that athiests can be good people working to benefit their country.</end quote></div>
But you don't.
</end quote></div>

you are assuming, I have a son who does not believe in God, and I love him dearly.</end quote></div>
You did not deny my assumption.</end quote></div>

I deny your assumption...wow...some people are super sensitive on this subject. I love people, regardless! I am a little on the homophobic side...but I still love people, all people...except mean people suck! lol

 

[FettsBabe]

Howard, I did. You are a good person and I believe that. Read my post. I know you were talking to FDD though.

 

[Leros]

I got kicked out the Boy Scouts for not being Christian. Screw them. Its a great organization and they taught me a lot of stuff. Everybody got along me with and vice versa. Its really too bad.