Anti Boy Scouts....GRRRRRR.

[FettsBabe]

Thank you for the laymans terms. I work in the legal field (some old schoolers know this) so I prefer the actual court transcript. I am going to read it. Give me a few.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Leros
I got kicked out the Boy Scouts for not being Christian. Screw them. Its a great organization and they taught me a lot of stuff. Everybody got along me with and vice versa. Its really too bad.

for not beign christian or being athiest? i have never heard of them kicking someone out for not being a christian.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Leros
I got kicked out the Boy Scouts for not being Christian. Screw them. Its a great organization and they taught me a lot of stuff. Everybody got along me with and vice versa. Its really too bad.</end quote></div>

for not beign christian or being athiest? i have never heard of them kicking someone out for not being a christian.

atheist.

 

[FettsBabe]

I couldn't pull up the transcript. I did read the other link though. The first link gave me an error message.

However, from the same site I pull this info


The California Court of Appeals issued its ruling overturning a lower court?s ruling that a ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional, writing ?All can agree that California has not deprived its gay and lesbian citizens of a right they previously enjoyed; same-sex couples have never before had the right to enter a civil marriage.?


But yet the BSA can't use a public marina. Put your words into action. Don't discrimate against BSA because of gay issues when you discriminate yourself!

This is so stupid.

 

[FiddleDD]

In person I don't know anyone that has been kicked out..

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
They openly ban atheists and homosexuals from joining yet they get public funding. Go figure.

Except that they're a private organization and they don't get any public funding. And let's be clear, 12 years old is a bit early for a boy to be openly gay, don't you think? Especially in an organization where boys all go camping out in the woods together? Wow... I bet that never occurred to you... gee... no liability there huh?...
And the BSA is fine with atheists as long as you don't go making a rabid tool of yourself. Otherwise, they teach boys to respectful of the beliefs of others.

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Open enough? I'm not trying to argue the morality of homosexuality, I don't really think it pertains to this issue. Bottom line is that the BSA does not allow homosexuals in the organization and that is discrimination.

Catholic priests with altar boys, boy scout leaders with their tenderfoots in the tents. Both are more or less cliche, but in this case you're condemning the organization that actually did something about it. You might not agree with what they did, but are you going to argue now that it was worse than doing nothing?

 

[FettsBabe]

me either.

 

[Platypus]

Someone set me straight if this makes sense to anyone but... if the BSA has a strong Christian element, why are they denying entry to religious gay children? Isn't that kind of against the founding pillars of that religion? Does that not seem extremely ridiculous to anyone else?

 

[FettsBabe]

Good Job Vic. Long time no see. Glad to see you around.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
In person I don't know anyone that has been kicked out..

I know one.

but he was kicked out for drugs. wcih sucked because he was my ride to meetings .



(grew up in the mormon church. seemed like all the boys were in scouts heh)

 

[FettsBabe]

Platy nice to see you again.

As vic said I don't know any gay 12 year olds.

The gov. itself discriminates against gays anyway so do insurance companies and many other organizations.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
lol I didn't want my son going to UC Berkeley for his PHD either

It's American socialism at its best.

How the hell is the government basically ruling against a private company that DISCRIMINATES the public... something that can be called socialism.
Our country has a touch of socialism when it comes to some things.. but not in this kind of case.
I guess it can technically be argued both ways, but I am fully in support of the government here. If an organization - a private organization - is against the acceptance of atheists and homosexuals... then it is not giving equal opportunity, and thus preventing some individuals from having the freedom to join the BSA. That, right there, is a right all of our citizens are supposed the have. Quite frankly, the government needs to crack down on ALL private organizations that openly, or even discretely, discriminate. Thankfully most employers are now 'equal opportunity', but even that may not be a strong enough ideal when the employer is secretly racist or something.

sure, the government is not equal opportunity when it comes to everything, specifically the military, however the government has always been slow to adapt to a changing society. Look how long it took women to get rights, and then desegregate the southern states. The Army is now 'don't ask, don't tell'.. basically something that states as long as homosexuals do not reveal their identity, it is not unlawful to join. Feminine homosexuals may have trouble entering, but that may be some time away from being able to happen, even though most wouldn't want to enter combat. I can't get into the argument about gays in the military, but let's just say it'll probably be quite awhile away.

regardless, I never knew the BSA discriminated against atheists and homosexuals. It would have prevented me from joining in my youth (I am atheist), however never confirmed it until a few years ago when I dug into my beliefs and thought for myself. I was also not apart of any church, and was truly non-religious. My parents believe in a god, but we never were religious, never went to church, and never really claimed a religion except christianity, probably because my parents don't really know the differences between religions. Hell, I don't. It all points to... well, different thread, different day.
I am not necessarily AGAINST the BSA, I support what they do for the children, and I never had the drive to join them, I'll let my boy (that I hope to have sometime down the road) join if he wants to, and if he is allowed.
I am, however, upset that they are allowed to operate in the way they do. It is fundamentally wrong to prevent a youth from learning highly important skills, just because he has different beliefs about the purpose of life. Hell, that atheist will probably do better, because he knows that life now is all there is.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Platypus
Someone set me straight if this makes sense to anyone but... if the BSA has a strong Christian element, why are they denying entry to religious gay children? Isn't that kind of against the founding pillars of that religion? Does that not seem extremely ridiculous to anyone else?

not really.

they feel that homosexulity is a sin and goes against what God wants and created us for.

So being gay you can't take the oath. you can't take the oath you can't be a scout.

 

[Adn4n]

The boy scouts original charter would never allow for such discrimination. The organization has been hijacked by religious institutions that want to push their view on others. As I said before, the majority nowadays are sponsored by Mormons, the same group that refused to see Black people as equal beings up until the mid 70s. Of course this had to change due to the civil rights movement. They are tax exempt yet own corporations like Marriot Hotels. This catering to religious groups is ridiculous. Let's start an ATOT religious group and get our own tax exemptions.

If you want a good explanation of the conflict within this post, then I suggest you watch the Penn & Teller Bullshit episode about it.

 

[FettsBabe]

My troop wouldn't kick you out for drugs unless you were a total train wreck and then they would push rehab and probably even call in social services if the parents weren't handling it. Then they would welcome you back with open arms and with everyones support including the boys and other parents.

We help kids walk the straight and narrow path. If they stray we try to help guide them back.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Platypus
Someone set me straight if this makes sense to anyone but... if the BSA has a strong Christian element, why are they denying entry to religious gay children? Isn't that kind of against the founding pillars of that religion? Does that not seem extremely ridiculous to anyone else?

</end quote></div>

not really.

they feel that homosexulity is a sin and goes against what God wants and created us for.

So being gay you can't take the oath. you can't take the oath you can't be a scout.

I said a religious gay child. This child would take the oath.

 

[FiddleDD]

Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: FiddleDD
In person I don't know anyone that has been kicked out..</end quote></div>

I know one.

but he was kicked out for drugs. wcih sucked because he was my ride to meetings .



(grew up in the mormon church. seemed like all the boys were in scouts heh)

yes the LDS church is pro-scouting, and they strongly participate in BSA.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Platypus
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Platypus
Someone set me straight if this makes sense to anyone but... if the BSA has a strong Christian element, why are they denying entry to religious gay children? Isn't that kind of against the founding pillars of that religion? Does that not seem extremely ridiculous to anyone else?

</end quote></div>

not really.

they feel that homosexulity is a sin and goes against what God wants and created us for.

So being gay you can't take the oath. you can't take the oath you can't be a scout.</end quote></div>


I said a religious gay child. This child would take the oath.

you are missing the point. theyf eel a being gay is wrong. so being gay (no matter how religious) is wrong and can not take the oath.

 

[FettsBabe]

is someone reading...our own gov. discriminates against gay people.

Gays have tried to fight for their rights for years.

Private organizations can have their own beliefs. Freedom of Speech Baby. Its what makes America great.

 

[FiddleDD]

The LDS Church does not own the Marriott Hotels.

Originally posted by: Adn4n
The boy scouts original charter would never allow for such discrimination. The organization has been hijacked by religious institutions that want to push their view on others. As I said before, the majority nowadays are sponsored by Mormons, the same group that refused to see Black people as equal beings up until the mid 70s. Of course this had to change due to the civil rights movement. They are tax exempt yet own corporations like Marriot Hotels. This catering to religious groups is ridiculous. Let's start an ATOT religious group and get our own tax exemptions.

If you want a good explanation of the conflict within this post, then I suggest you watch the Penn & Teller Bullshit episode about it.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Platypus
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Platypus
Someone set me straight if this makes sense to anyone but... if the BSA has a strong Christian element, why are they denying entry to religious gay children? Isn't that kind of against the founding pillars of that religion? Does that not seem extremely ridiculous to anyone else?

</end quote></div>

not really.

they feel that homosexulity is a sin and goes against what God wants and created us for.

So being gay you can't take the oath. you can't take the oath you can't be a scout.</end quote></div>


I said a religious gay child. This child would take the oath.</end quote></div>

you are missing the point. theyf eel a being gay is wrong. so being gay (no matter how religious) is wrong and can not take the oath.

Ah, correct me if I'm wrong.. being a Christian means that even if you sin, which they believe being gay is, you are forgiven if you accept Jesus? So if a child is willing to accept a Christian oath, are they not absolving themselves of sin? Isn't that how that neat little hattrick works?

 

[mooglemania85]

vid

[ Establishment shot: Exterior, night, boy scouts and Scout Master are sitting around a fire camp, near a tent. ]

Scout Master: ? and hanging on the car door? was a bloody HOOK!

Boy scouts #1 to #3: AAH!

Boy scout #1: Hey, I got a cool story mister Armstrong, but I can?t tell it until Canteen Boy gets back.

Scout Master: Where is Canteen Boy?

Boy scout #2: He?s right over there!

[ Camera switches to Canteen Boy, a few feet away from fire camp, staring at a wooden owl ]

Boy scout #3: Canteen Boy come over here!

Canteen Boy: Hang on a second fell- fellows, I got a bit of a situation here!

Boy scout #2: You can relax Canteen Boy that thing is made of wood.

Canteen Boy: [ Touches the owl ] So it is. [ Canteen Boy goes sit at the fire camp ] Good eye!

Boy scout #1: Hey Canteen Boy, I got a really scary ghost story! Once upon a time there was a moron, who always had a stupid canteen wrapped around his neck!

Canteen Boy: Hey, I think I?ve heard this tale before

Boy scout #1:? it was a dark and stormy night, and this moron went into the woods, and a huge bear came up and ripped his head off! ? Just ?cause he looked so stupid! ? THE END! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Canteen Boy: Hey you wanna see something really scary? Look in the mirror! Mm-mm!

Boy scout #1: Ha-ha SHUT up Canteen Boy!

Canteen Boy: Hey you shut up!

Boy scout #1: What was that?

Canteen Boy: Nothing.

Scout Master: All right guys! Lay off Canteen Boy, You can hike on back to your tents and hit the hay! Come on! Let?s go! Let?s go! [ Boy scouts are leaving, disappointed, Scout Master holds Canteen Boy?s leg ] Not you Canteen Boy! I wanted to talk to you about something. I see you take a lot of ribbing from the other scouters.

Canteen Boy: Goes with the territory mister Armstrong ? it?s sticks and stones!

Scout Master: [ Putting his arm around Canteen Boy?s shoulder ] Attaboy!.. [ Looking at Canteen Boy with lust in his eye ] You know, it seems like the moment you get out of the city, all the problems sort of, fade away? [ Scout Master feels Canteen Boy?s cheek with his nose ] I?m sorry Canteen Boy my - my beard is scratchy isn?t it?

Canteen Boy: [ Very uncomfortable with the situation ] No harm done!

Scout Master: [ Continues to feel Canteen Boy?s cheek ] My beard is scratchy Canteen Boy but it gives good back rubs?

Canteen Boy: Yeah um, yeah I?ll take a rain check on that mister Armstrong.

Scout Master: [ Tears his shirt apart ] Oops! My shirt fell off!

Canteen Boy: That?s a quick fix mister Armstrong just put it back on!

Scout Master: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That?s great Canteen Boy! Hey [Holds Canteen Boy back again, puts an hand on his leg and rubs it] Do you like wine?

Canteen Boy: Actually I prefer pure tap water um, right out of the ol' canteen right here!

Scout Master: I?m going to get us a little?. wine?. [ Scout Master leaves ]

Canteen Boy: All right a little drop will not kill me I guess?

[ Canteen Boy hears a howl in the forest ]

Canteen Boy: Ooo-Ooo to you! Hey owl! if you?re so wise why don?t you go to sleep it?s the middle of the night! [ Canteen Boy is amused and proud of his remark. ]

[ Scout Master comes back, wearing a bath robe and holding two glasses of wine. Sits besides Canteen Boy ]

Scout Master: Ahhh? Here?s to the Great Outdoors! [ Scout Master intentionally spills wine over Canteen Boy?s sleeping bag ] Oops! Was that your sleeping bag? [ Canteen Boy?s get out of his wet sleeping bag ] You?d better share mine.. It?s Extra Large!

Canteen Boy: [ Naive about the invitation ] Sure why not, until mine dries off, it won?t take long it?s made of Gore-Tex.

Scout Master: Canteen Boy, would you um.. rub some bug repellent on my chest?

Canteen Boy: It?s February mister Armstrong I think all the bugs went down south to hibernate, I?ll be honest with you!

Scout Master: Humor me Canteen Boy!

[ Canteen Boy nervously applies lotion on Scout Master?s chest for a few seconds ]

Canteen Boy: There you go! No more bugs!

Scout Master: I have to apologize for my hairy chest, it can be a little scratchy?

Canteen Boy: Yeah.. my mom might like it as she?s a big Tom Selleck fan!

Scout Master: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! You?re very funny Canteen Boy! [ Reaches out and holds Canteen Boy in his arms ] Make me laugh some more!

Canteen Boy: Actually, I left my joke book over in the tent, how about I go get it?

Scout Master: That?s okay Canteen Boy let?s just, lie here and? look at the stars?. [ Scout Master puts his mouth on Canteen Boy?s cheek and neck ] Do you know um? [ Takes Canteen Boy?s finger and suck it ] do you know how.. how to play? "Truth or Dare"?Canteen Boy?

Canteen Boy: Um, refresh me!

Scout Master: You choose between telling a secret? or doing a Dare?

Canteen Boy: All right: "Dare."

[ Scout Master whispers something inaudible at Canteen Boy?s ear ]

Canteen Boy : [ Looking scared ] You know what mister Armstrong, let?s start off with the Truth!

Scout Master: I?ll tell you a Truth canteen Boy! You know what I hate? Underpants!

[ Scout Masters removes his underpants underneath his sleeping bag ]

Canteen Boy: Gee, I think if you worry about bugs, underpants would be your last line of defense!

Scout Master: [ Throwing his underpants away ] Problem solved!

Canteen Boy: Your problem?s solved but I think my problem?s just beginning! [ Scout Master forces Canteen Boy into spoon like position ] Aahhh What the hell is that?

Scout Master: I don?t know, it must have been a bed bug.

Canteen Boy: That was pretty big for a bed bug!

Scout Master: Okay it wasn?t a bed bug!

Canteen Boy: Let?s go back to saying it was a bed bug! Hey you know what, the park ranger just called! He said: "one camper per sleeping bag!" Sorry! Adios Amigos! [ Canteen Boy tries to leave sleeping bag, Scout Master holds him back ]

Scout Master: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! God you make me laugh Canteen Boy!

[ Scout Masters holds Canteen Boy and falls asleep ? the morning after?]

Scout Master: [ Wakes up ] I?m sorry Canteen Boy, I fell asleep before anything happened.

Canteen Boy: No harm done!

Scout Master: Well who?s hungry? I?m gonna go make us a power breakfast! [ Scout Master leaves ]

Canteen Boy: Okay?[ Canteen Boy gets up, whistles to summon snakes and runs away ]

Scout Master: [ Scout Master returns ] Canteen Boy have you ever had a Mimosa? Canteen Boy? [ Snakes "charge" at Scout Master from various location ] Ha! Ha! Ha!.. Canteen Boy you rascal!"

[ Fade out ]

 

[FettsBabe]

Platypus, I don't know any gay 12 year olds. I hope they aren't having sex at all.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Platypus
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Platypus
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: waggy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Platypus
Someone set me straight if this makes sense to anyone but... if the BSA has a strong Christian element, why are they denying entry to religious gay children? Isn't that kind of against the founding pillars of that religion? Does that not seem extremely ridiculous to anyone else?

</end quote></div>

not really.

they feel that homosexulity is a sin and goes against what God wants and created us for.

So being gay you can't take the oath. you can't take the oath you can't be a scout.</end quote></div>


I said a religious gay child. This child would take the oath.</end quote></div>

you are missing the point. theyf eel a being gay is wrong. so being gay (no matter how religious) is wrong and can not take the oath.


</end quote></div>


Ah, correct me if I'm wrong.. being a Christian means that even if you sin, which they believe being gay is, you are forgiven if you accept Jesus? So if a child is willing to accept a Christian oath, are they not absolving themselves of sin? Isn't that how that neat little hattrick works?

hahah yeah it is how it works.

I agree its not right or fair. but i understand it.

 

[FiddleDD]

This is feeling like the good ole days..i'm loving it!!