Anti-Static bags?

[axemanxt40]

Hi guys I plan on mailing some RAM to someone on the forums soon and I can't find the anti-static bag for it in my apartment. Any suggestions on where to look for such a thing or something else I can use as a safe alternative?

 

[Powermoloch]

If you have any pc stores around you (especially pc club /fry's/ comp usa). You can ask for some.....

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

 

[Lord Evermore]

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

I'm pretty sure the bags are only conductive on the outside. I suppose it could be wrapped in something non-conductive first, as long as you don't manage to build up any static charge on anything in the process.

 

[iamaelephant]

I just mailed a video card wrapped in aluminium foil. I'll let you know how it worked when I get my feedback

 

[SlitheryDee]

When I had to RMA my graphics card I just went to a local pc shop and they gave me a bag for free. The fact that I picked up a tube of Arctic Silver Ceramique while I was there might have helped though.

 

[Nocturnal]

If you can check out any mom and pop store and ask them nicely I'm sure they'd be more than happy to give you one. We have TONS lying around. So much that now days I just throw them away.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

No, the whole point of the bag is for it to be less conductive. You want a slow ESD discharge and equalization, not none, and not fast.

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi, Anti static bags are electrically conductive on all sides!
Jim

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

NO NO NO...

Use some newspaper to wrap the DIMMs in before packing.

 

[JoeFahey]

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

Sarcasm can be good and funny, but not when someone might not know it is sarcasm.

Made me laugh though.

 

[Ayah]

Originally posted by: JoeFahey1

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

Sarcasm can be good and funny, but not when someone might not know it is sarcasm.

Made me laugh though.

I thought he had some screwed up logic and actually meant it.

 

[Navid]

Antistatic bags are not conductive like an aluminum foil. One of the most important tasks of an antistatic bag is to isolate the contents from an ESD discharge presented from outside the bag. It will fail to do that if it is conductive.

There is a conductive layer inside the material, which serves to protect against electric field like a Faraday cage does. But, this conductive layer is within the material and is neither accessible from inside nor from outside the bag.

You can read about antistatic bags here if you are interested.
http://www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/ryne/esdbags.htm

You can order from many places on line.
http://www.nextag.com/Cables-Unlimited-...tml?nxtg=1dac0a1c052e-7079848F6058B189

Edit:
Next time, you remove something you buy from its antistatic bag, do not throw it away!

Edit 2:
An antistatic bag will conduct electricity. But, its resistance is measured with Mega Ohms (very high resistance). An aluminum foil has a very low resistance (0.5 Ohms). Just use your digital multimeter and measure the resistance.

 

[Ayah]

Originally posted by: Navid
Edit:
Next time, you remove something you buy from its antistatic bag, do not throw it away!

Yeah, I have about a hundred of those bags in a drawer.

 

[iamaelephant]

Originally posted by: JoeFahey1

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

Sarcasm can be good and funny, but not when someone might not know it is sarcasm.

Made me laugh though.

Err, wait. He wasn't serious? Because last time this conversation came up I thought that foil thing was real. And I wasn't joking above, I really did post a video card wrapped in aluminium foil. Should be arriving today, hopefully it's not dead

 

[Ayah]

Originally posted by: iamaelephant

Originally posted by: JoeFahey1

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Wrap it in aluminum foil. Antistatic bags are slightly electrically conductive to protect from static electricity. Aluminum foil is highly conductive so would be even better.

Jim

Sarcasm can be good and funny, but not when someone might not know it is sarcasm.

Made me laugh though.

Err, wait. He wasn't serious? Because last time this conversation came up I thought that foil thing was real. And I wasn't joking above, I really did post a video card wrapped in aluminium foil. Should be arriving today, hopefully it's not dead

:Q Poor video card.

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi, Do not wrap in paper or anything else that is not conductive. Aluminum foil was used years ago before antistatic bags were invented. Anyone with any knowlege of electricity and static electricity should understand the reason for using a conductive material to protect electronic gear.

Jim

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi, Do not wrap in paper or anything else that is not conductive. Aluminum foil was used years ago before antistatic bags were invented. Anyone with any knowlege of electricity and static electricity should understand the reason for using a conductive material to protect electronic gear.

Jim

Bad advice!

There is no way to guarantee that the aluminum foil makes a good electrical contact with all points of the board. The problem occurs if there is a discharge and the charge is transferred to a sensitive component on the board (through the conductive wrap) but not the ground plane of the same board. Then, you will end up with a high voltage on the sensitive component with respect to the ground plane and fry it.

You claim that antistatic bags are conductive on all sides. What is your definition of "conductive"? Something with a resistance in the Mega Ohm range? Yes, that is correct. A few Ohms (like aluminum foil)? No, you are wrong. Just use a meter and measure the resistance of an antistatic bag. Just read the link posted earlier in this thread.

Falling off the top of the third floor may be better than falling off the top of the forth floor. But, ....
Aluminum foil is better than newspaper! But, it is still bad.

If you have a reference to what you are saying, please post.

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi Navid, You have some real good ideas there but you do not understand how a conductive material protects the board. It will contact the board but does not have to. It conducts the static electricity around the board. No spark will jump to the board. The foil will be at the same potential as the board so no spark. Think of what happens to you when you suffle across a carpet and go near the screw in the light switch on the wall.

Jim

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi Navid, You have some real good ideas there but you do not understand how a conductive material protects the board. It will contact the board but does not have to. It conducts the static electricity around the board. No spark will jump to the board. The foil will be at the same potential as the board so no spark. Think of what happens to you when you suffle across a carpet and go near the screw in the light switch on the wall.

Jim

Same principle as a Faraday cage, I imagine.

 

[rivan]

Do we need to bring this to HT?

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi Navid, You have some real good ideas there but you do not understand how a conductive material protects the board. It will contact the board but does not have to. It conducts the static electricity around the board. No spark will jump to the board. The foil will be at the same potential as the board so no spark. Think of what happens to you when you suffle across a carpet and go near the screw in the light switch on the wall.

Jim

Now, think what happens if you go near your board after rubbing your foot on the carpet. If it is inside an anti-static bag, nothing. But, if it is inside a conductive wrap, you can discharge into the wrap and through it into the board. That is why anti-static bags are not conductive.

Can you show a reference to an anti-static bag that is conductive? I provided one that explains they are all insulators.

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi again Navid, Why do you think the anti-static bags are dark colored? Do you think maybe its the carbon in the plastic? End of story! Jim

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi again Navid, Why do you think the anti-static bags are dark colored? Do you think maybe its the carbon in the plastic? End of story! Jim

I don't know why they are dark. Please tell us.

I measured the resistance of aluminum foil with a digital multimeter.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Navid/AlFoil.JPG
As can be seen in the picture, it measures about 0.4 Ohms.


Then, I measured the resistance of an antistatic bag.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Navid/AntiStatic.JPG
As you can see from the picture, its resistance is higher than the meter can measure. It is higher than 20 Mega Ohms.

If you still think that antistatic bag is the same as Aluminum foil with respect to conductivity, could you explain these measurements?

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: JimPhelpsMI
Hi Navid, You have some real good ideas there but you do not understand how a conductive material protects the board. It will contact the board but does not have to. It conducts the static electricity around the board. No spark will jump to the board. The foil will be at the same potential as the board so no spark. Think of what happens to you when you suffle across a carpet and go near the screw in the light switch on the wall.

Jim

Same principle as a Faraday cage, I imagine.

There is a conductive layer inside an antistatic bag. That acts as a Faraday cage. The surface of an antistatic bag is not conductive though because this conductive layer is an internal layer. Think of a multilayer jacket. Imagine if the jacket was made of three layers. Imagine if the layer that was out was not conductive and the layer that touched your body was not conductive either. However, the layer in between was conductive. That's how an antistatic bag is.

The purpose of that conductive layer is if the bag is exposed to an electric field, the conductive layer would shield the contents of the bag from the field.

However, this is very different from Aluminum foil, which is conductive all over!