antialiasing, a question for you!

[rossco]

Hi i have just got a new gf4 4400. I have upgraded from a tnt2 so you can imagine i am not used to bothering with things like antialising. Should i let the applications handle it, as per the contol panel suggestion or should i do it manualy. I must say i cant see the option in some games.

Thanks

Rossco

 

[cdub]

If you dont see the anti-aliasing option in the game's menus, then you can force it in the Direct3d settings for your video adapter. Beyond that, you just have to play around and see what you like. If I were you I would start up my favorite game once with all of the AA settings, and then play around with the anisotropic filter settings a bit.

 

[glugglug]

Am I the only one that will _always_ turn AA off even if the games I'm running would be completely smooth either way?

Think about what anti-aliasing means for a second: Its another word for blurring the image to make the pixels less noticable (or to prevent NTSCs color bleeding from attempts at anything high contrast from showing too much when outputing to TV).

If I wanted everything blurred, I'd buy a cheaper monitor and avoid the performance hit.

 

[bluemax]

Originally posted by: glugglug
Am I the only one that will _always_ turn AA off even if the games I'm running would be completely smooth either way?

Think about what anti-aliasing means for a second: Its another word for blurring the image to make the pixels less noticable (or to prevent NTSCs color bleeding from attempts at anything high contrast from showing too much when outputing to TV).

If I wanted everything blurred, I'd buy a cheaper monitor and avoid the performance hit.

Ah, the misinformed, where would we be without them.

With the exception of Quincux, AA routines smooth edges, not blur everything horribly. I'd take smooth over creepy-crawlies on every edge any day. We'll have to wait for the next-gen cards (like NV30) to see if they've done the AA improvements they promised.

 

[rossco]

at moment in the control panel i have asked windows to let the apllications set the level for AA. Does this mean i get the choice in the games for this. Or does it mean i dont see an option at all and i just get an optimized version.

thanks

Rossco

 

[Emultra]

I'd say only use AA if you have the Parhelia. Too much of a performance hit on GeForce cards. Except for older games, of course.
And AA does not blur the image. It improves image quality.

 

[rossco]

so which is it?

Do i not see AA options as i have let the applications handle it, or am i looking in the wrong place. this goes for games like morrowind, il2 and jk2


thanks

Rossco

 

[AnAndAustin]

Emultra, the overpriced GF3 performing Parhelia does have a fantastic ability with its Fragment AA. However it can't always be applied (games or combinations may not permit), misses some jaggies and results in eratic frame rates. It does however take a VERY small perf hit (about the same as GF3 & GF4 with 2xAA) and does give generally excellent results. However since the FPS are 'only' that of a GF3 or Rad8500 taking a small hit actually means it is still far slower than GF4 cards. A final note is that if FxAA can't be used the Parhelia's only other option is to use a VERY slow MASSIVE HIT 4xAA. I think 99% of folk will agree that Parhelia is not worth the price tag!

Anyway, here's some info regarding AA.

:lol: The original AA technique used by both nVidia & ATI was Super-Sampling AA. This worked by rendering more pixels than were req for the final image on screen. So for a 800x600 image, 2xAA(SS) renders 1600x600 and 4xAA(SS) renders 1600x1200, therefore there is 2 horizontal pixels for every final 1 in 2xAA (4 for every final pixel in 4xAA) and this is where the extra info is found to base the final colour of the final pixel which then 'leaves' the card. That way there isn't quite the hit of actually running in a higher res but you gain much of the quality that would come from a higher res. Especially useful for people whose monitor can't handle the higher res.

The newer technique (well it's more of an enhanced 3dfx technique) only currently used by nVidia GF3 & GF4 (perhaps the Xabre too but under the title 'Jitter Free AA') is Mutli-Sampling AA. This uses mathematics and complex algorithms to guess the correct AA for each pixel and largely blur the image (which is 75% of what AA does anyway) and that's why details and textures aren't as sharp with AA but are less jagged. AA-MS is much faster than AA-SS but does result in blurrier images, although this can be overcome with Aniso or 4xS AA. The GF4 does use an enhanced version of AA-MS IIRC by taking the samples at slightly different locations which is intended to give better results. Also 4xS-AA is an option which uses some SS-AA techniques mixed with MS-AA which negates the need for Aniso and keeps textures and detail sharp. 4xS is for DirX only but since OpenGL has Aniso it does't really matter. AA-Quincunx from GF3 & GF4 takes a 2xAA hit but achieves 4xAA results, just more blurry (so is great with Aniso). It's to do with rendering 2xAA but shifting the pixels up a bit in order to give 4 pixel calculations. QxAA with Aniso is faster and better looking than 4xAA and is the best solution IMHO.

The Matrox Parhelia-512 uses Fragment Super-Sampling which works out the key jagged lines and only performs AA-SS on these parts of the image. This keeps the quality of AA-SS but removes most of the hits of unneccessarily blurring every single pixel. The downside is that some frames will req much more AA than others meaning the frame rate will be much more erratic, some jaggies are missed and it can't always be used. You will most likely need an average frame rate of around 100 FPS with just to ensure the rate doesn't dip below 30 FPS. If FxAA can't be used then the P512 has to resort to 4xAA (SS) which takes a big perf hit.

 

[AnAndAustin]

If you leave the AA setting on Auto in the driver control panel then the application is allowed to turn it on and off. If the game supports it it should give you the options from within the games menus, the option will be there if the game supports it no matter what option you selected in control panel. Getting the latest updates for games may help this. If you force the AA then even older games which were never designed to use AA can still benefit (but there is no guarantee that it will work).

So to sum it up (IMHO), AA perf is too slow on GF2, Rad7500 and below for the majority of even relatively modern games. Rad8500 (great speed but bigger perf hitting AA), GF3, GF4 and Parhelia all largely handle AA very well. In terms of acceptible perf it is an individual thing for both card and owner, and depends greatly on the individual games. For Parhelia you either want FxAA or none at all (just up the res). For GF3 and GF4, 2xAA and pref Aniso is a good combination. GF4 can use QxAA (Quincux) which only hits at 2xAA but gives near 4xAA (just blurrier), however when Aniso is applied it really cleans it up incredibly well. Playing around with diff details, settings (AA, Ani etc) and resolutions is all part of gaming on the PC and each user will have their own preferences.

 

[HowDoesItWork]

"Too much of a performance hit on GeForce cards. Except for older games, of course."

Depends how you look at it. Normally just bumping up to a higher res will give you better all around results, but if you are resolution limited by your monitor AA isn't so bad. Remember anything over 60fps or so is just a benchmark, your eye can't detect it. Also, seems that ATI takes just as big of a hit (or bigger) as the Geforce cards.

G4 4600 RTCW 1024x768x32

150 fps
80 fps 2X AA
51 fps 4X AA

ATI 8500 RTCW 1024x768X32

139 fps
46.4 fps 2X AA
22.2 fps 4X AA

 

[Emultra]

What I mean is that it's better to put the resources on higher resolutions than to use them on the (yet) relatively inefficient AA.
If only the Parhelia would have been as fast as the GeForce 4 Ti4600, it would have been a gamer's dream...

 

[dude]

Originally posted by: Emultra
I'd say only use AA if you have the Parhelia. Too much of a performance hit on GeForce cards. Except for older games, of course. And AA does not blur the image. It improves image quality.

Dude, have you seen the Parhelia benchmarks? The GF4 is still faster with AA enabled than the Parhelia without AA enabled.

To do or not to do? Try running a game with AA off, then try it again with AA on. See the difference? Now, leave it on!
If you're not going to run at a higher resolution than 1280x1024, you should not really notice any performance hit in any of the games out right now. If you run at 800x600, I'd say enable 4x AA and enable the highest Anisotropic Filtering. You'll have virtually no performance hit with the highest level of detail.

 

[cdub]

With my Ti4200, I definitely get a perf hit in GTA3 at 1280x1024 using Quincunx AA, no aniso filtering. However the poster has a ti4400 so he should be better equiped to deal with these situations. Also GTA3 is a pretty poorly translated game anyway, in terms of performance.

 

[JeremiahTheGreat]

Try running a game with AA off, then try it again with AA on. See the difference? Now, leave it on!

Yeah, i've tried that. I leave AA off! It looks horrible!!! Text is blurred horribly, and edges/lines get very very thick.. but i guess its all a personal preference..

 

[rossco]

Thanks guys for all the replies.

So to sum up

I think it would be best for me to continue and let applications decide the AA. If the games support it i can change it in game. Is there a default though? So say if i was playing an older game, would i have to force AA, or would the GF automatically attempt say 2Xaa of SS or whatever?

The general rule seems to be

The lower the resolution the better AA will make the screen look. The higher the Res the less of a difference AA will be visible.

I hope this is right.

Cheers guys

Rossco

 

[Dreadogg]

I play CS all the time and AA is manditory, or the game looks horrible I cant stand the knife looking edges all over the place! I do agree that text does look kinda funky but that was before with my Gforce2 pro card now I own a Geforce 4 GT21 Ti4200 and now text looks very clear and sharp!

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

hehe, your not playing CS at 1600X1200 like me then. Oh the game is a sight to behold at 1600X1200 with 8X aniso. If i enable any sort of fsaa my fps drop from a steady 99fps to 50-70 and even lower during fights. So, because i can only spot jaggies if i'm looking for them and not actually playing the game i tend to leave aa off in CS. I also tend to leave AA off in most all of my games because i prefer a higher resolution and anisotropic anyways.

 

[Dreadogg]

yea I have that problem that I cant stand jagged looking edges and I notice them very quickly in CS!

 

[rossco]

Are AA and anistropic filtering just a hit on the graphics card?

I suppose it would be better to run both where possible.

For the moment i will definantly have it on, my monitor wont go above 1024x798 i think. Damn bloody 15inch monitors. I am going to have to go and get a new one.

Thanks

Rossco