Any Christian here that wants to talk to me? I lost faith some time ago.

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,210
1,080
126
I have many questions that no one could answer... I used to be a sincerely genuine churchgoer growing up. Then in my early 20s, the nagging doubts in the back of my head fully manifested and I left my faith. It wasn't an angry or emotional decision. It was purely a 'logical' process.

I purposely did church hopping to talk to different pastors... I genuinely asked them for 1:1 talk after the service. Then I shared my faith in distress and the questions I had. They were all very amazing people whether you think religion is real or not. They truly try to do good and help his/her congregation.

That being said, no one could answer my Qs. After about an year of active re-evaluation, I became an agnostic atheist.

PM me, let's take it to gmail chat if you got it.

Well, I'll share the Qs:
- Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
- Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
- Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
- etc...
 

Skunk-Works

Senior member
Jun 29, 2016
983
328
91
- Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole


Well, this is God's creation. If you look at how everything is you will see everything has a fundamental balance. Whether that be the rotation of electrons to the rotation of celestial objects, There is day and there is night. There is hot and cold. There is wind and no wind. High pressure, low pressure, etc, etc, and good and evil. Sin is sin and non-sin is non-sin. Everything is whole in heaven. I guess that's the universe that you're looking for. Where there is no this and that and the trials and tribulations of this world.

Genesis 1:3
Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.…



- Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?

Like mentioned before there is negative and positive and such there is hell and heaven. It's God's doing. Imagine a man that repeatedly raped your wife in the most barbaric way possible then lit her on fire to suffer in agony. Now imagine they catch this bastard and he just laughs, smiles and mocks you, your family and the judge with not a care in the world and no fucks given. He's not sorry for his sin and couldn't care less. In fact, he's an atheist. Going to Jesus and confessing his sins and asking for forgiveness is out of the question with this fuck up. There are many, many people on this earth of pure evil. I don't think you are born this way, but you chose your path with free will. Thus now you chose the wrong path. I wouldn't want to share paradise with this mess up, would you? Do you think he deserves it? If so, you must be a saint of saints.

Personally, I don't think one should be in hell for all eternity. Perhaps a while, but not for all eternity. Perhaps while they are burning if that's what happens they will realize their sin and ask for forgiveness. Some people are just not right in the head so going to hell doesn't seem like the right approach. Perhaps reincarnation does exist to give you another shot and to shape your soul for the better. I have heard Einstein believed in reincarnation. But I'm not for certain.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.


- Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
- etc...

Same as above.

It's almost like school. Could very well be. We build or soul through life experiences.


Matthew 22:14
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
 
Last edited:

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
9,152
928
126
I have many questions that no one could answer... I used to be a sincerely genuine churchgoer growing up. Then in my early 20s, the nagging doubts in the back of my head fully manifested and I left my faith. It wasn't an angry or emotional decision. It was purely a 'logical' process.

I purposely did church hopping to talk to different pastors... I genuinely asked them for 1:1 talk after the service. Then I shared my faith in distress and the questions I had. They were all very amazing people whether you think religion is real or not. They truly try to do good and help his/her congregation.

That being said, no one could answer my Qs. After about an year of active re-evaluation, I became an agnostic atheist.

PM me, let's take it to gmail chat if you got it.

Well, I'll share the Qs:
- Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
- Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
- Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
- etc...
Just off the top of my head ...
- Well, God has a standard of behavior. Failure to meet the standard is .... (hmm, what to call it?)... sin. If there were no atonement, sinners would be auto-condemned without recourse. Sin is a consequence of free choice - has to be an option. Failure is always an option - until God sets up his kingdom on earth. Then, bye bye sin. That said, there was no sin on Earth at its inception. It was "whole."
- I'm sure the suffering is commensurate to the enormity of the transgression. God doesn't punish for pleasure, like Satan does. Reward isn't enough to entice people - you have to offer punishment too - otherwise if the worst that could happen is they forego the heavenly reward, many will opt for that. God is "unwilling that any should perish."
- Your deeds reflect on God - that's why he cares - if you're his adopted child. Besides, rules are there for our benefit. Things function better when we follow the rules. Those around us benefit from our adherence. God will bless multitudes because they contain a faithful few.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,986
8,699
136
God really fucked Satan in the arse.

God creates man. God gives man freewill. God decides that somethings are bad and some good. Good people go to heaven with him, needs to send bad people elsewhere. God makes hell for bad people. God needs someone in charge of hell. Gods going to be sending one of his angels down there regardless of their behaviour otherwise he has no hell.

One angel is going to be fucked.
 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
6,760
440
126
" Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
- etc..."

LOL. So you're saying your a shitty person so God should let you in. If heaven were full of shitbags why would anyone want to be there?
 

homebrew2ny

Senior member
Jan 3, 2013
611
61
91
To the OP, try not to let the atheists empty your cup with chest thumping claims of "fact".

After reading your questions I can unequivocally say there is answers for each one. However my question to you is do you really want to hear/know them?

Ultimately it will be up to you. If your idea of an answer is that it must adhere to some human generated set of criteria in order to be valid then I am afraid you may be disappointed.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,058
38,568
136
Good ol family values. Value to customers is also important.

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again."
Exodus 21: 7-8

You didn't lose faith, you got smarter. Big difference.
 
Reactions: sandorski

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
I purposely did church hopping to talk to different pastors... I genuinely asked them for 1:1 talk after the service. Then I shared my faith in distress and the questions I had. They were all very amazing people whether you think religion is real or not. They truly try to do good and help his/her congregation.

Well there's your problem. Stop talking to flunkies that have never even met the boss and don't know what he wants. Ask the invisible man in the sky for answers, if he doesn't think you're important enough to reply personally he clearly doesn't want you on his team.
 
Reactions: soulcougher73

BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
10,568
138
106
Dude... You're trying to logic your way through the musings of ancient ignorant goat herders. That'll go just about as you'd expect it to...

Yea that. Ancient ignorant goat hearding pegan blood drinking mosquitos more like it, child sacrificing durt bag womanizers. Now their entire culture is ruled by and supports sadism.

 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
NO! There is no god as religion describes it. There is only religion.

The wisdom of Picard is undeniable, to think otherwise is blasphemous!

Captain Jean-Luc Picard:

Horrifying. Dr. Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? NO!


 

kstu

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2004
1,544
31
91
For starters, you can stop calling yourself an agnostic atheist. The vast majority of (if not all) atheists would also be agnostic by default. Claiming otherwise would require proof of the non-existence of gods. You are just trying to soften the "harshness" of the word atheist, either for yourself or for your audience.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,570
12,870
136
Oh, life is bigger, it's bigger, and you are not me. The lengths that I will go to...
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
For starters, you can stop calling yourself an agnostic atheist. The vast majority of (if not all) atheists would also be agnostic by default. Claiming otherwise would require proof of the non-existence of gods. You are just trying to soften the "harshness" of the word atheist, either for yourself or for your audience.

atheist

Hmm doesn't seem harsh to me. Must be you.

 
Last edited:

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
For starters, you can stop calling yourself an agnostic atheist. The vast majority of (if not all) atheists would also be agnostic by default. Claiming otherwise would require proof of the non-existence of gods. You are just trying to soften the "harshness" of the word atheist, either for yourself or for your audience.

Bullshit. That is the stupidest argument you could possibly try to make. An atheist doesn't believe in invisible men in the sky. Period. It requires no proof, in fact, lack of proof is what makes an atheist an atheist. I, and many other atheists simply demand that an almighty being reveal himself, prove he exists and stop allowing self-appointed groupies to speak for him. Every god has failed on that simple requirement. We don't have to prove he's not there, he has to prove he is.

If anything, it's agnostics who are misidentified. An agnostic is an atheist that lacks courage in his convictions. They don't believe, but try to sit on the fence with some lameass "I don't know for sure" excuse. Either you believe in something or you don't.

If you believe in god = theist
If you don't believe in god = atheist
If you don't believe in god and aren't sure = still atheist.
 

kstu

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2004
1,544
31
91
You and I are saying the exact same thing, sorry if the way I said it was confusing. I agree completely.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
106
I have many questions that no one could answer... I used to be a sincerely genuine churchgoer growing up. Then in my early 20s, the nagging doubts in the back of my head fully manifested and I left my faith. It wasn't an angry or emotional decision. It was purely a 'logical' process.

I purposely did church hopping to talk to different pastors... I genuinely asked them for 1:1 talk after the service. Then I shared my faith in distress and the questions I had. They were all very amazing people whether you think religion is real or not. They truly try to do good and help his/her congregation.

That being said, no one could answer my Qs. After about an year of active re-evaluation, I became an agnostic atheist.

PM me, let's take it to gmail chat if you got it.

Well, I'll share the Qs:
- Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
- Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
- Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
- etc...

I'll answer 'em short and simple.

Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
Because God is love, there can't ever be true love in a relationship without a personal choice involved. Some scholars erroneously think that sin was planned all along, but it wasn't. Sin originated from heaven, short and simple, because Satan saw that he was beautiful and powerful, and wanted to be worshiped himself. There once was a time that Satan existed without sin, but instead he chose to rebel, and the rest is history. So now we live in a world where sin is possible, but the ultimate will of God is still for you to choose to have a rich, loving relationship with him. The very act of asking for forgiveness and turning from your sins and all that shinbang is you simply choosing to value having a relationship with God more than sinning.

You're married, so I'll use an metaphor. Let's say your wife cheats on you, which is a pretty big deal. She's clearly wronged you, and you're very hurt by it. She, too, is also very self aware of her dreadful actions and seeking forgiveness. But because you value your relationship with her, you're willing to forgive her and move forward. When you view sin/atonement/forgiveness through the lens of valuing a relationship, it begins to make a lot more sense. If you view it through a lens of servitude and "slavehood", it's very confusing.

Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
Oh gosh, you had to ask this brutal question, haha. Hell was originally made for the angels who rebelled from him, and humans will suffer the same fate for those who follow in their footsteps. I know, it's brutal. Where I see people get lost in this question is with personal ownership, and so I say this; worry about yourself and your own choices. It's easy to ask, "Well what about the guy who was a hermit living in the mountains with no human contact blah blah blah?" Or, "What about the people deep within the Amazon who have never heard of Jesus? And the answer to that is that you don't know what God was doing to speak to him or them throughout his or their lifetime. Perhaps they had a close relationship all along, but we just never knew. Let God be the judge of that. Whether you were a human living long before Sunday school and the Bible, or a modern day dude running around in your skibbies in the Amazon rain forest, God makes his presence known to everyone. It's our own personal responsibility to listen.

Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
If you financed your kids entire super expensive ivy league education, wouldn't you care what they were doing? If you bought your kids a car, wouldn't you be interested in how they were maintaining it, using it, and ensuring they were driving properly? Look at it this way. God created the physical realm, and gave us the spare keys and the authority to operate it. That's a big deal. We've got the keys to this place, and he expects us to use what we've been given wisely.

Let's use another metaphor. You're king; rich and powerful. Your kingdom is vast, wealthy, healthy, and awesomesauce. You'd think you'd want the heir to your throne to continue on with what you've accomplished, wouldn't you? But God isn't going anywhere. He just wants us to co-labor with him in his kingdom and share in that. Those are big shoes to fill, so you're going to need a lot of character, integrity, and wisdom to be able to do that. And where do we learn all that? Right here on planet Earth.

In closure, I'll end with this. You have a lot of good questions. If there is one thing I know in my faith, it's that these types of questions get answered when you seek a relationship with God. You know that whole saying about how God will make foolish the wisdom of the world? That's because relationship precedes answers and facts in God's kingdom, whereas we seek answers to gain answers. Sounds crazy, but it's true, and it works.
 
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