Any Christian here that wants to talk to me? I lost faith some time ago.

[Perknose]

Well, I'll share the Qs:
- Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
- Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
- Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
- etc...

The underlying flaw in each and every of your questions is buying into the concept called "God" as a distinct and active actor, a Joe God, if you will. This is because you (and most all religions in their popularly promoted form) base their cosmological explanations for the masses of their followers on a Dog and Pony show starring Joe God. As was stated elsewhere, man wasn't made in the image of God, man made God in his (corporeal, male, authoritarian) image.

While none of know anything for sure, I happen to believe in the divine. That is to say, I stand with the Zen Buddhists in my belief that we are ALL part of one indivisible and divine whole, that division and separateness are illusory, i.e. maya, and that everyone and everything has an intrinsic, inherent worth (divine). So, what you do to anything or anyone else, you do to yourself. Act accordingly, with kindness, compassion and reverence.

Now, there are undoubtedly a whole host of virile, manly, self-described "no-nonsense realists" here who would point and laugh at the airy-fairy aspects of my beliefs . . . as if their view of what is and what isn't is the one true objectivity. Facts on the ground! Only what is solid and tangible to our five simian senses is real!

And yet, if there's one thing quantum mechanics and string theory shed a strong and irrefutable light on, it is that no one of us monkey descended bipeds has a firm handle on the fucking basic nature of the universe whatsoever! Our very earth-bound, five senses bound language and "common sense" is woefully inadequate to describe, yet comprehend, WHAT ACTUALLY IS.

Now, there have been, and will be, right in this thread, easy potshots taken at the all too lame, Joe God and Jeebus dog and pony show crapola promoted by most mainstream religions . . . once meant as metaphorical teachings, now hardened into easily laughed at cartoons.

That is not my ineffable and provisional understanding of the divine. Just please don't reject my somewhat inchoate, often tenuous and always open to change belief in what I call "the divine", mister clear-eyed, manly man, mister self-described "rationalist."

Whatever is or isn't, not one of us knows for sure. But the following remains true:

You limit the scope of your inquiry, you limit your findings.

 

[Thebobo]

I'll answer 'em short and simple.

Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
Because God is love, there can't ever be true love in a relationship without a personal choice involved. Some scholars erroneously think that sin was planned all along, but it wasn't. Sin originated from heaven, short and simple, because Satan saw that he was beautiful and powerful, and wanted to be worshiped himself. There once was a time that Satan existed without sin, but instead he chose to rebel, and the rest is history. So now we live in a world where sin is possible, but the ultimate will of God is still for you to choose to have a rich, loving relationship with him. The very act of asking for forgiveness and turning from your sins and all that shinbang is you simply choosing to value having a relationship with God more than sinning.

You're married, so I'll use an metaphor. Let's say your wife cheats on you, which is a pretty big deal. She's clearly wronged you, and you're very hurt by it. She, too, is also very self aware of her dreadful actions and seeking forgiveness. But because you value your relationship with her, you're willing to forgive her and move forward. When you view sin/atonement/forgiveness through the lens of valuing a relationship, it begins to make a lot more sense. If you view it through a lens of servitude and "slavehood", it's very confusing.

Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
Oh gosh, you had to ask this brutal question, haha. Hell was originally made for the angels who rebelled from him, and humans will suffer the same fate for those who follow in their footsteps. I know, it's brutal. Where I see people get lost in this question is with personal ownership, and so I say this; worry about yourself and your own choices. It's easy to ask, "Well what about the guy who was a hermit living in the mountains with no human contact blah blah blah?" Or, "What about the people deep within the Amazon who have never heard of Jesus? And the answer to that is that you don't know what God was doing to speak to him or them throughout his or their lifetime. Perhaps they had a close relationship all along, but we just never knew. Let God be the judge of that. Whether you were a human living long before Sunday school and the Bible, or a modern day dude running around in your skibbies in the Amazon rain forest, God makes his presence known to everyone. It's our own personal responsibility to listen.

Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
If you financed your kids entire super expensive ivy league education, wouldn't you care what they were doing? If you bought your kids a car, wouldn't you be interested in how they were maintaining it, using it, and ensuring they were driving properly? Look at it this way. God created the physical realm, and gave us the spare keys and the authority to operate it. That's a big deal. We've got the keys to this place, and he expects us to use what we've been given wisely.

Let's use another metaphor. You're king; rich and powerful. Your kingdom is vast, wealthy, healthy, and awesomesauce. You'd think you'd want the heir to your throne to continue on with what you've accomplished, wouldn't you? But God isn't going anywhere. He just wants us to co-labor with him in his kingdom and share in that. Those are big shoes to fill, so you're going to need a lot of character, integrity, and wisdom to be able to do that. And where do we learn all that? Right here on planet Earth.

In closure, I'll end with this. You have a lot of good questions. If there is one thing I know in my faith, it's that these types of questions get answered when you seek a relationship with God. You know that whole saying about how God will make foolish the wisdom of the world? That's because relationship precedes answers and facts in God's kingdom, whereas we seek answers to gain answers. Sounds crazy, but it's true, and it works.

I asked god how come you don't reveal yourself and never got an answer.
I asked god how come you allow such horrible pain and suffering and never got an answer.
I asked god why if I don't follow it I would suffer in the hereafter.

 

[Zeze]

Zeze started a religion thread? I applaud your dedication to ATOT revival.

And this one is completely serious and from my heart.

I'll be replying a ton once I get home.

 

[nakedfrog]

The underlying flaw in each and every of your questions is buying into the concept called "God" as a distinct and active actor, a Joe God, if you will. This is because you (and most all religions in their popularly promoted form) base their cosmological explanations for the masses of their followers on a Dog and Pony show starring Joe God. As was stated elsewhere, man wasn't made in the image of God, man made God in his (corporeal, male, authoritarian) image.

While none of know anything for sure, I happen to believe in the divine. That is to say, I stand with the Zen Buddhists in my belief that we are ALL part of one indivisible and divine whole, that division and separateness are illusory, i.e. maya, and that everyone and everything has an intrinsic, inherent worth (divine). So, what you do to anything or anyone else, you do to yourself. Act accordingly, with kindness, compassion and reverence.

Now, there are undoubtedly a whole host of virile, manly, self-described "no-nonsense realists" here who would point and laugh at the airy-fairy aspects of my beliefs . . . as if their view of what is and what isn't is the one true objectivity. Facts on the ground! Only what is solid and tangible to our five simian senses is real!

And yet, if there's one thing quantum mechanics and string theory shed a strong and irrefutable light on, it is that no one of us monkey descended bipeds has a firm handle on the fucking basic nature of the universe whatsoever! Our very earth-bound, five senses bound language and "common sense" is woefully inadequate to describe, yet comprehend, WHAT ACTUALLY IS.

Now, there have been, and will be, right in this thread, easy potshots taken at the all too lame, Joe God and Jeebus dog and pony show crapola promoted by most mainstream religions . . . once meant as metaphorical teachings, now hardened into easily laughed at cartoons.

That is not my ineffable and provisional understanding of the divine. Just please don't reject my somewhat inchoate, often tenuous and always open to change belief in what I call "the divine", mister clear-eyed, manly man, mister self-described "rationalist."

Whatever is or isn't, not one of us knows for sure. But the following remains true:

You limit the scope of your inquiry, you limit your findings.

Heh, this made me think of a favored Douglas Adams quote.

“Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.”

 

[slayer202]

I purposely did church hopping to talk to different pastors... I genuinely asked them for 1:1 talk after the service. Then I shared my faith in distress and the questions I had.

who cares what they had to say, I'm gonna make a thread so I know so I can find out what brianmanahan thinks

 

[GagHalfrunt]

You limit the scope of your inquiry, you limit your findings.

And if you go into an investigation predisposed towards finding something you'll probably convince yourself you found something that isn't there. Nobody with an open mind ever found an invisible man in the sky no matter what the scope of their inquiry. Only the people who wanted to find one actually did.

 

[eng2d2]

Being a catholic and now christian, I believe in both. After exploring rome two years ago I start wondering who jesus was. I am wondering why he existed. Why am I having doubts about his purpose in this world.

 

[Perknose]

And if you go into an investigation predisposed towards finding something you'll probably convince yourself you found something that isn't there. Nobody with an open mind ever found an invisible man in the sky no matter what the scope of their inquiry. Only the people who wanted to find one actually did.

And there it is, right on time, the "invisible man" straw dog once again. Certainly not what I was saying. Please re-read what I wrote with, you know, your own "open mind."

 

[Zeze]

Well, this is God's creation. If you look at how everything is you will see everything has a fundamental balance. Whether that be the rotation of electrons to the rotation of celestial objects, There is day and there is night. There is hot and cold. There is wind and no wind. High pressure, low pressure, etc, etc, and good and evil. Sin is sin and non-sin is non-sin. Everything is whole in heaven. I guess that's the universe that you're looking for. Where there is no this and that and the trials and tribulations of this world.

Genesis 1:3
Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.…


Like mentioned before there is negative and positive and such there is hell and heaven. It's God's doing. Imagine a man that repeatedly raped your wife in the most barbaric way possible then lit her on fire to suffer in agony. Now imagine they catch this bastard and he just laughs, smiles and mocks you, your family and the judge with not a care in the world and no fucks given. He's not sorry for his sin and couldn't care less. In fact, he's an atheist. Going to Jesus and confessing his sins and asking for forgiveness is out of the question with this fuck up. There are many, many people on this earth of pure evil. I don't think you are born this way, but you chose your path with free will. Thus now you chose the wrong path. I wouldn't want to share paradise with this mess up, would you? Do you think he deserves it? If so, you must be a saint of saints.

Personally, I don't think one should be in hell for all eternity. Perhaps a while, but not for all eternity. Perhaps while they are burning if that's what happens they will realize their sin and ask for forgiveness. Some people are just not right in the head so going to hell doesn't seem like the right approach. Perhaps reincarnation does exist to give you another shot and to shape your soul for the better. I have heard Einstein believed in reincarnation. But I'm not for certain.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.




Same as above.

It's almost like school. Could very well be. We build or soul through life experiences.


Matthew 22:14
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

I'll answer 'em short and simple.

Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
Because God is love, there can't ever be true love in a relationship without a personal choice involved. Some scholars erroneously think that sin was planned all along, but it wasn't. Sin originated from heaven, short and simple, because Satan saw that he was beautiful and powerful, and wanted to be worshiped himself. There once was a time that Satan existed without sin, but instead he chose to rebel, and the rest is history. So now we live in a world where sin is possible, but the ultimate will of God is still for you to choose to have a rich, loving relationship with him. The very act of asking for forgiveness and turning from your sins and all that shinbang is you simply choosing to value having a relationship with God more than sinning.

You're married, so I'll use an metaphor. Let's say your wife cheats on you, which is a pretty big deal. She's clearly wronged you, and you're very hurt by it. She, too, is also very self aware of her dreadful actions and seeking forgiveness. But because you value your relationship with her, you're willing to forgive her and move forward. When you view sin/atonement/forgiveness through the lens of valuing a relationship, it begins to make a lot more sense. If you view it through a lens of servitude and "slavehood", it's very confusing.

Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
Oh gosh, you had to ask this brutal question, haha. Hell was originally made for the angels who rebelled from him, and humans will suffer the same fate for those who follow in their footsteps. I know, it's brutal. Where I see people get lost in this question is with personal ownership, and so I say this; worry about yourself and your own choices. It's easy to ask, "Well what about the guy who was a hermit living in the mountains with no human contact blah blah blah?" Or, "What about the people deep within the Amazon who have never heard of Jesus? And the answer to that is that you don't know what God was doing to speak to him or them throughout his or their lifetime. Perhaps they had a close relationship all along, but we just never knew. Let God be the judge of that. Whether you were a human living long before Sunday school and the Bible, or a modern day dude running around in your skibbies in the Amazon rain forest, God makes his presence known to everyone. It's our own personal responsibility to listen.

Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
If you financed your kids entire super expensive ivy league education, wouldn't you care what they were doing? If you bought your kids a car, wouldn't you be interested in how they were maintaining it, using it, and ensuring they were driving properly? Look at it this way. God created the physical realm, and gave us the spare keys and the authority to operate it. That's a big deal. We've got the keys to this place, and he expects us to use what we've been given wisely.

Let's use another metaphor. You're king; rich and powerful. Your kingdom is vast, wealthy, healthy, and awesomesauce. You'd think you'd want the heir to your throne to continue on with what you've accomplished, wouldn't you? But God isn't going anywhere. He just wants us to co-labor with him in his kingdom and share in that. Those are big shoes to fill, so you're going to need a lot of character, integrity, and wisdom to be able to do that. And where do we learn all that? Right here on planet Earth.

In closure, I'll end with this. You have a lot of good questions. If there is one thing I know in my faith, it's that these types of questions get answered when you seek a relationship with God. You know that whole saying about how God will make foolish the wisdom of the world? That's because relationship precedes answers and facts in God's kingdom, whereas we seek answers to gain answers. Sounds crazy, but it's true, and it works.

I read both of your responses carefully and thoroughly. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I think I need to convey my questions better because your entire response can be summed up as: "this is how us humans behave, therefore that's how God behaves." Everything you laid out here is just plain anthropomorphize God. All His systems you laid it out are really, human behaviors. This just mirrors human anthropology. And consequently it looks more like man made God, not other way around. I mean, are our imagination so limited that we think a concept of god is limited by this Christian concept of God?

• Why is God mad at sin? Hot/cold, day/night, therefore sin exists? I get your attempt but this makes zero sense to me. God made the world from a blank slate. Why does God care and is bound to the concept of sin? Sinning, retribution, paying someone back, redemption, vindication... ALL these are human societal behaviors. Is God so weak that we have to explain ourselves like this in order to defend this non-sense?

• Again, I grew up Christian - I did the works - I went on missions to Hopi people in AZ reservations, had honest prayers with God nearly all my adolescence, etc. They say He is a jealous God. Why is God so petty? I'm a stupid mortal and if I created someone, even I'd say, "Screw off and enjoy yourselves."

• Let's talk about the concept of eternity. Do you know how mind-blowingly long a million years is? Then what about million x million at one trillion years? How about a trillion of trillion years? And what if that trillion of trillion years is just a BLINK OF AN EYE in your life? That barely scratches the surface of eternity. So how I suffer in hell or bask in glory in heaven for eternity are all based on my atomic speck of 80 year human life? A trillion and trillions of years later in hell, God tells me that I'm still stuck there because of what I did eons ago?
  
  
• You can't cherry-pick what you know of God and what you don't know of God. Where in the scripture did God say he makes himself known to Amazonian tribes? If you're so sure of that, how are you so sure on other things you are claiming here? The bible is full of contradictions.

All I see is circular & self-referencing logic.

 

[OutHouse]

If you financed your kids entire super expensive ivy league education, wouldn't you care what they were doing? If you bought your kids a car, wouldn't you be interested in how they were maintaining it, using it, and ensuring they were driving properly? Look at it this way. God created the physical realm, and gave us the spare keys and the authority to operate it. That's a big deal. We've got the keys to this place, and he expects us to use what we've been given wisely.

soooo, get into a accident in the 70 years we have on earth and spend the rest of eternity in a lake of fire.

yea seems fair.

 

[crashtech]

If you believe in god = theist
If you don't believe in god = atheist
If you don't believe in god and aren't sure = still atheist.

I get that you are fairly aggressively atheist, but not everyone defines these things the way you do. I'll offer my interpretation, for what it's worth:

"There is a God," says the theist, or deist.
"I don't know if there is a god," says the agnostic.
"There is no god," says the atheist.
"Listen, idiots, there is no f*cking invisible sky-man, okay!?,"says GagHalfrunt.

 

[zinfamous]

The problem I always had with religion was the tipping.

 

[nakedfrog]

The problem I always had with religion was the tipping.

Just the tipping?

 

[Zeze]

Just the tipping?

Don't be wise here. This is a religion thread, nudeamphibian

 

[lxskllr]

Don't be wise here. This is a religion thread, nudeamphibian

You can't have religion without tipping. It's the whole reason it exists. It's kinda like libre software. It's given gratis, but to be a good citizen, you should kick a few buck over to dev. It lets him know his work is appreciated, and it's The Right Thing To Do®, but if you don't, no one will say anything. Church is kinda the same way. You're given tales gratis, but you're expected to kick money over to the church. The difference is if you don't give money, you'll go to hell. +1 libre software

 

[Zeze]

You can't have religion without tipping. It's the whole reason it exists. It's kinda like libre software. It's given gratis, but to be a good citizen, you should kick a few buck over to dev. It lets him know his work is appreciated, and it's The Right Thing To Do®, but if you don't, no one will say anything. Church is kinda the same way. You're given tales gratis, but you're expected to kick money over to the church. The difference is if you don't give money, you'll go to hell. +1 libre software

Please ship me the good stuff you're toking.

 

[nakedfrog]

Don't be wise here. This is a religion thread, nudeamphibian

You're saying that a religion thread is no place for wisdom?

 

[lxskllr]

You're saying that a religion thread is no place for wisdom?

I *knew* he was trolling! Comes in here playing dumb, but knows what religion's about the whole time :^D

 

[zinfamous]

Just the tipping?

Yes, I always found that going beyond the tipping was painful.

 

[Skunk-Works]

The problem I always had with religion was the tipping.

Well how do you think the church can afford the utility bills and all the rest? Granted some churches are there to make a buck like those stupid televangelists.

 

[Zeze]

Well how do you think the church can afford the utility bills and all the rest? Granted some churches are there to make a buck like those stupid televangelists.

Yo man I replied.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I get that you are fairly aggressively atheist, but not everyone defines these things the way you do. I'll offer my interpretation, for what it's worth:

"There is a God," says the theist, or deist.
"I don't know if there is a god," says the agnostic.
"There is no god," says the atheist.
"Listen, idiots, there is no f*cking invisible sky-man, okay!?,"says GagHalfrunt.

You definition is whatever you want it to be and I don't give a shit how you convince yourself that you're something you're not.

THE ACTUAL DEFINITION of atheist
Webster- "a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods".
OED - "A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods"

Use any dictionary you like, they all say the same thing. If you believe in a god you're a theist and if you don't you're an atheist. And you're still an atheist even if you don't believe, but are not 100% sure. If you don't believe in a god you're an atheist, period and that holds true no matter how sure you are. An agnostic doesn't believe in god, therefore according to any standard and accepted definition of atheist they're an atheist.

 

[Ventanni]

I read your response carefully and thoroughly. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I think I need to convey my questions better because your entire response can be summed up as: "this is how us humans behave, therefore that's how God behaves." Everything you laid out here is just plain anthropomorphize God. All His systems you laid it out are really, human behaviors. This just mirrors human anthropology. And consequently it looks more like man made God, not other way around. I mean, are our imagination so limited that we think a concept of god is limited by this Christian concept of God?

- Why is God mad at sin? Hot/cold, day/night, therefore sin exists? I get your attempt but this makes zero sense to me. God made the world from a blank slate. Why does God care and is bound to the concept of sin? Sinning, retribution, paying someone back, redemption, vindication... ALL these are human societal behaviors. Is God so weak that we have to explain ourselves like this in order to defend this non-sense?

- Again, I grew up Christian - I did the works - I went on missions to Hopi people in AZ reservations, had honest prayers with God nearly all my adolescence, etc. They say He is a jealous God. Why is God so petty? I'm a stupid mortal and if I created someone, even I'd say, "Screw off and enjoy yourselves."

- Let's talk about the concept of eternity. Do you know how mind-blowingly long a million years is? Then what about million x million at one trillion years? How about a trillion of trillion years? And what if that trillion of trillion years is just a BLINK OF AN EYE in your life? That barely scratches the surface of eternity. So how I suffer for eternity in hell or bask in glory in heaven for eternity is all based on my speck of 80 year human life? A trillion and trillions of years later in hell, God tells me that I'm still stuck there because of what I did eons ago?

All I see is circular & self-referencing logic.

I get some pretty nasty responses sometimes, so I appreciate you taking the time to read it. You've got some really good questions.

A very high level of anthropomorphism of God is expected when we are created in his image. If you're willing to read, I'm willing to share an experience I had about a month ago when I was outside running with God. I do a lot of running, and it's a great time to talk to him, as that's what he and I like to do together. And one day he asked me, "Do you know why you love to run?" I didn't know what to say. God of the universe asking why you do what you do. I mean, how do you answer that? But I found his answer to be quite astonishing and profound. He said, "You love to run because I love to run. Nearly everyone in the world stares up at the sky and sees my hand print upon creation, but if you were to look closely, there you would find my foot print, too." But it explains the seemingly endless human societal behaviors that you pointed out. Some of us love to dance, some of us love to sing. Some make beer, write novels, delve into the deepest sciences, etc. We love these things, but it was his creativity that first brought them into existence. And you know what? None of those things are wrong. They can be twisted, but they were all created good.

At the same time though, I have also found through engaging in relationship with God though is that he is absolutely not human. He is engaging, hilarious, fascinating, profound, and way more complex than I can describe. But, that's the fun of it. Look at it this way, perhaps the anthropomorphism is so that we can find that initial common ground? Would you rather have that, or talk to a rock you absolutely couldn't relate to?

Why is God mad at sin? (and the rest you wrote)
I'm not sure how to respond to you in words, but I have seen the tremendous damage in people's lives of those who engage in retribution, vindication, unforgiveness, etc. Those things just aren't made to be carried by us. I once knew a woman who would not forgive her mom for something. I can't remember the specific details. Her body constantly shook and she was always sick in some way, and the doctors could never figure out why. She and I were the same age, but the constant anger she had stored up in herself for so long made us look years apart. And so from God's perspective, sin has a really good way of getting in the way of us reaching our maximum potential in life. In her case, it was literally destroying her. And I see it in more ways than one. Her story is just one of many.

Again, I grew up Christian - I did the works - I went on missions to Hopi people in AZ reservations, had honest prayers with God nearly all my adolescence, etc. They say He is a jealous God. Why is God so petty? I'm a stupid mortal and if I created someone, even I'd say, "Screw off and enjoy yourselves."

You did the works, did the works, did the works. (The following language I'm about to use is meant to heavily engage you, not attack you, so don't feel threatened by my words). I get the feeling you grew up in a church that taught that God doesn't talk to people anymore like he did the apostles? Were you taught growing up that you were a broken sinner in a broken shell of a body? Not allowed to express your love for Christ? Heavy on the fire and brimstone stuff? Hey, just pray that the Lord returns so you don't have to deal with the world's problems, right?

Unfortunately, those teachings instill in us a very pauper-like identity that is absolutely wrong. You are absolutely worthy of having a father/son-like relationship with God, he does engage in conversation with those who will listen, he doesn't want us walking around calling ourselves horrible adjectives, and when we recognize problems in the world, he wants us to actually do something about it. You say if you created someone that even you'd say, "Screw off and enjoy yourselves," but that's because you see your relationship through the lens of a slave/master. Slaves do not have relationship with their master; their only duty is to do the work right so that they don't get in trouble. If you have a son or daughter, and you loved them dearly, you would never tell them to, "Screw off and enjoy yourselves." And surely, you do not see your children as slaves.

Let's talk about the concept of eternity. Do you know how mind-blowingly long a million years is? Then what about million x million at one trillion years? How about a trillion of trillion years? And what if that trillion of trillion years is just a BLINK OF AN EYE in your life? That barely scratches the surface of eternity. So how I suffer for eternity in hell or bask in glory in heaven for eternity is all based on my speck of 80 year human life? A trillion and trillions of years later in hell, God tells me that I'm still stuck there because of what I did eons ago?

Easy answer here actually. The words used in Hebrew and Greek are translated as "eternal" in the English language, but the meaning is not the same, and thus the English definition of eternal doesn't properly fit the original definition. I often remind people that the Bible was not written in English. It was written in languages that are now dead, and the words and the sentence structure of those languages does not translate directly into English. We do not have words for the words they used, and if you tried to translate it literally, it would make absolutely no sense to us attempting to read it.

This page does a good job of trying to explain it - http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/eternityexplained.html

 

[Skunk-Works]

Yo man I replied.

I saw that, but I need to go to the store and I really don't feel like debating religion. I said what I had to say. I don't think you'll care one way or another what I or others have to say. All I'll add is that when they say God is everywhere he truly is. From the molecules and atoms that spin in your very body to life's balance of power. Just the fact that the sun gives us life and without it is amazing. The sun gave you a house to live in, food and clothes. And to think the ancients worshiped it.

Today we find ourselves going to a more secular society even though we know a lot about how things work and the universe around us thus far. I feel like science and religion and coexist.

 

[nakedfrog]

Yes, I always found that going beyond the tipping was painful.

True, sometimes when things comes to a head you get the shaft.