Any Christian here that wants to talk to me? I lost faith some time ago.

[crashtech]

This guys knows how to write. Agreed.

That's about the highest compliment I've ever been paid on a forum, thank you. My apologies that I can't speak directly to your concerns regarding faith.

 

[Kadarin]

For me it's the fact that I have always found the idea of religious "faith" completely unnecessary in my life, so I can never have a crisis of such. Perhaps I'm missing out, but if so, what exactly am I missing out on other than pointless speculation about what happens to my consciousness after I die?

 

[Thebobo]

I can say one thing for Christianity, it may lead to better results with your kids.

My 17 year old stoner son is currently running drugs in white neighborhoods for an extremely violent black street gang. My fundamentalist Christian brother has kids that are all doing well in school and not in the least interested in drugs.

That you know of.

As far as your son, sorry. And no reason to get drugs from gangs these days, black white or inbetween.

 

[rvborgh]

if you are really interested in these questions... i'd consult the early Church Fathers (around 4th century)... as they preached and expounded on these questions in depth. St. John Chrysostom, the Cappadocian Fathers, etc.

i should add that most modern "christianity" is not truly Christianity Its a remaking of Christianity into what man want it to be. So it is no wonder that a lot of people get discouraged. If you want the truth... you'll have to go back almost 1000 years to prior to the split between the Orthodox and the Catholics. There you will find the true ancient Faith (ie "the Way").

Hope this helps.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I have many questions that no one could answer... I used to be a sincerely genuine churchgoer growing up. Then in my early 20s, the nagging doubts in the back of my head fully manifested and I left my faith. It wasn't an angry or emotional decision. It was purely a 'logical' process.

I purposely did church hopping to talk to different pastors... I genuinely asked them for 1:1 talk after the service. Then I shared my faith in distress and the questions I had. They were all very amazing people whether you think religion is real or not. They truly try to do good and help his/her congregation.

That being said, no one could answer my Qs. After about an year of active re-evaluation, I became an agnostic atheist.

PM me, let's take it to gmail chat if you got it.

Well, I'll share the Qs:
- Why do the concepts of sin & atonement even exist? You're God, just make everything whole
- Why does God let hell exist.. to be suffering for eternity? That's a little hard no?
- Why does God even care about your deeds in this world? I mean, I'm a crappy guy and even I would graciously let EVERYONE go to heaven. Why the fack not?
- etc...

Just read the Bible start to finish, watch as it evolves from plagiarized Babylonian creation/god myths, Jewish love /hate historical God relationship to the Armageddon hallucinations of the final Prophets. That should relieve you of any doubt of God's invention by man.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Is Zeze the new Mayne? He's making more threads per day than Mayne is.

 

[highland145]

Do you really care?

 

[bshole]

That you know of.

As far as your son, sorry. And no reason to get drugs from gangs these days, black white or inbetween.

You have no idea how much I have cried over this. My son was everything to me. He just turned out bent. I have kinda lost my will to live over all of this.

 

[Zeze]

Do you really care?

I guess I do because I started this thread. I just wanted to see if I missed anything on my first verdict long long ago.

 

[Guurn]

If you're interested in this topic, I highly, highly recommend the aforementioned book. He clarifies how reality is actually created *from* math.

And humans do not create math, at best we discover the ways in which math operates, then translate that discovery into human process-able language.

I think he is trying to use the Mathematical Fiction argument. Basically it is this-

1. Mathematical sentences like ‘4 is even’ should be read at face value; that is, they should be read as being of the form ‘Fa’ and, hence, as making straightforward claims about the nature of certain objects; e.g., ‘4 is even’ should be read as making a straightforward claim about the nature of the number 4. But
2. If sentences like ‘4 is even’ should be read at face value, and if moreover they are true, then there must actually exist objects of the kinds that they're about; for instance, if ‘4 is even’ makes a straightforward claim about the nature of the number 4, and if this sentence is literally true, then there must actually exist such a thing as the number 4. Therefore, from (1) and (2), it follows that
3. If sentences like ‘4 is even’ are true, then there are such things as mathematical objects. But
4. If there are such things as mathematical objects, then they are abstract objects, i.e., nonspatiotemporal objects; for instance, if there is such a thing as the number 4, then it is an abstract object, not a physical or mental object. But
5. There are no such things as abstract objects. Therefore, from (4) and (5) by modus tollens, it follows that
6. There are no such things as mathematical objects. And so, from (3) and (6) by modus tollens, it follows that
7. Sentences like ‘4 is even’ are not true (indeed, they're not true for the reason that fictionalists give, and so it follows that fictionalism is true).

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I think he is trying to use the Mathematical Fiction argument. Basically it is this-

1. Mathematical sentences like ‘4 is even’ should be read at face value; that is, they should be read as being of the form ‘Fa’ and, hence, as making straightforward claims about the nature of certain objects; e.g., ‘4 is even’ should be read as making a straightforward claim about the nature of the number 4. But
2. If sentences like ‘4 is even’ should be read at face value, and if moreover they are true, then there must actually exist objects of the kinds that they're about; for instance, if ‘4 is even’ makes a straightforward claim about the nature of the number 4, and if this sentence is literally true, then there must actually exist such a thing as the number 4. Therefore, from (1) and (2), it follows that
3. If sentences like ‘4 is even’ are true, then there are such things as mathematical objects. But
4. If there are such things as mathematical objects, then they are abstract objects, i.e., nonspatiotemporal objects; for instance, if there is such a thing as the number 4, then it is an abstract object, not a physical or mental object. But
5. There are no such things as abstract objects. Therefore, from (4) and (5) by modus tollens, it follows that
6. There are no such things as mathematical objects. And so, from (3) and (6) by modus tollens, it follows that
7. Sentences like ‘4 is even’ are not true (indeed, they're not true for the reason that fictionalists give, and so it follows that fictionalism is true).

I wasn't going to go nearly as esoteric as that. Many people just believe that math is a concept like music, art, literature... that it is created by mankind to explain the world around them, rather than the world around them being based on something we didn't invent, but came up with terms to describe.

 

[IronWing]

I wasn't going to go nearly as esoteric as that. Many people just believe that math is a concept like music, art, literature... that it is created by mankind to explain the world around them, rather than the world around them being based on something we didn't invent, but came up with terms to describe.

Math doesn't explain the world around us but it provides a very useful model as to how the world works. Most importantly, it allows us to make fairly complex predictions about how the world will work based on how we have seen the world work in the past.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Math doesn't explain the world around us but it provides a very useful model as to how the world works

Again, I recommend delving into aforementioned book. It posits that math does indeed explain how the world around us works, and provides compelling evidence to support the notion.