Any engineers/technical folks here have exp. in investment banking?

[z1ggy]

I'm looking to make a job switch sometime in 2015. I know it's a ways off but being the typical anal person that I am, I want to do my research. I am likely moving to the NYC metro area. I'm probably looking to live in NJ and commute into NYC for a job.

I'm an engineer with almost 4 years experience. By 2015 I'll obviously have five years. Unfortunately, my current job is not conducive to tons of technical work- I'm not in the lab and I'm not designing new products. I do a LOT of paper pushing, and the work sucks. I fear that I am loosing my technical skills both in designing and analyzing components or systems.

I'm thinking of making a switch into investment banking as an engineer. I've heard of people with degrees as engineers working with investment firms researching other engineering companies and working with finance to determine if the company is worth purchasing equity in. I've heard of people in large cities making $300k plus (not a huge amount given its NYC) doing this... But I dont' recall how much experience it was, and I can't say that isn't a stretch of the truth.

I've also read the hours can be insane. Working 100 hours a week is not something uncommon according to websites I've visited. Even for $300k a year, I would not work 100 hour weeks. I value working out and doing sports, spending time with my SO, etc. I just can't see myself being happy at a job where I make good money, but can never enjoy it.

After being an engineer now for a while, I've come to learn the money is not with the technical folks unless you own your own company. All the money goes to the managers, directors, and VP's. If I am not going to be assigned or be able to perform technical work, I would at least like to get into a field where I can obtain a solid pay check.

TLDR;
Currently engineer, looking for new field in investment banking
Are the hours insane? What is the job like?

 

[Delita]

Yes the hours are like that, but mainly for analyst and associate level, which is what you would be coming in as. Here are some websites with good information:

http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.com/2013/03/curriculum-vitae.html
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/articles/

 

[vshah]

I worked in IT at Deutsche Bank for 2.5 years. Not on the business side of things as you are contemplating though, so i'm not sure how much my insight would be worth. I worked on research platforms for equity derivatives.

 

[z1ggy]

Yes the hours are like that, but mainly for analyst and associate level, which is what you would be coming in as. Here are some websites with good information:

http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.com/2013/03/curriculum-vitae.html
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/articles/

Sounds like I'd be brushed over unless I had at least an MBA. Doesn't seem likely having just a BS in engineering would qualify anybody to work on financial anything.

 

[Genx87]

I worked for a small investment bank a few years ago. The associates had to be really good at excel + data input. I think an engineer can accomplish that

I'd think an engineer could be pretty good due to working with numbers and algorithms.

Honestly I think the kids they had working as associates learned the business on the go. They were given the grunt jobs of research, updating excel with financial information, and updating the database on the companies we were marketing to potential buyers.

They probably had economics degree's and passed thier certification tests. But anything useful to moving up within the company was learned on the job.

And yes, expect long hours. It supposedly pays off when you are promoted and get paid well and the hours subside somewhat. But even the partners were putting in long hours. Especially when it came time for due dilligence and the closing.

 

[Delita]

Yeah I think its more about the willingness, aptitude, and drive to do the job rather than "knowing finance." That part can be taught pretty easily, but the passion for the work is what they are looking for.

Here is another good article:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/04/15/177320592/ask-a-banker-whats-it-like

 

[blackdogdeek]

I live in NJ and commute to an investment bank in NYC but I'm a java developer. For us, there are usually spikes when there may be extra hours worked close to releases, but that is typical for software development. Other times you're usually in the office from around 8 or 9 to 6 or 7. I'm a contractor now, but when I was full-time we had to carry blackberries and monitor email for any issues with overnight processes or early morning Ready-for-Business checks failing. They didn't happen often but you never really felt like you were away from the office when you were checking emails. We also had the occasional weekend where we might have to run disaster recovery drills or conduct special testing with external vendors but those are even rarer still.

I can tell you though that almost everyday when I'm leaving work around 6 or 7 I see A LOT of people in the lobby picking up their takeout delivery food. I'm not sure what group they're in but I wouldn't want to do that everyday.

If you have questions about areas of NJ or anything else let me know.

 

[z1ggy]

I worked for a small investment bank a few years ago. The associates had to be really good at excel + data input. I think an engineer can accomplish that

I'd think an engineer could be pretty good due to working with numbers and algorithms.

Honestly I think the kids they had working as associates learned the business on the go. They were given the grunt jobs of research, updating excel with financial information, and updating the database on the companies we were marketing to potential buyers.

They probably had economics degree's and passed thier certification tests. But anything useful to moving up within the company was learned on the job.

And yes, expect long hours. It supposedly pays off when you are promoted and get paid well and the hours subside somewhat. But even the partners were putting in long hours. Especially when it came time for due dilligence and the closing.

I could see myself doing investment analysis. I have a fairly good grasp on excel and it's finer uses. I haven't quite learned how to make macro's yet, but..I was smart enough to get my degree as an EE

I also taught myself the basics of the stock market. Even though I think Jim Cramer is a madmad, I used to watch his show every single day. I learned a lot about the economy and stock markets, even if the guy is a quack now.

I do however, have a big issue working 80 hour weeks. I have a dog... The dog requires that I not be at work for longer than 10-11 hours at a time, assuming my commute is around 30 mins each way. I know working in NYC will mean at least a 60-90 min commute each way. I would really like to keep my dog, as she means a lot. I also enjoy the gym...Working that much will probably mean I'll get fat because I won't have the means to eat properly or lift. I'll probably have to do lots of coke to keep myself going ;-p.

There's also the whole having 5yrs experience as a professional, but being treated like a grunt. Guess that's more of a mental thing though..

 

[blackdogdeek]

Oh, one more thing re: investment banks (at least from the software dev perspective):

It's EXTREMELY difficult to get a job at an investment bank unless:

1. You already work at an investment bank
2. You personally know the group/person hiring

 

[Crusty]

Not really an 'investment' bank, but I've been working as a software engineer implementing algorithmic trading systems for the better part of a decade now.

 

[purbeast0]

I live in NJ and commute to an investment bank in NYC but I'm a java developer. For us, there are usually spikes when there may be extra hours worked close to releases, but that is typical for software development. Other times you're usually in the office from around 8 or 9 to 6 or 7. I'm a contractor now, but when I was full-time we had to carry blackberries and monitor email for any issues with overnight processes or early morning Ready-for-Business checks failing. They didn't happen often but you never really felt like you were away from the office when you were checking emails. We also had the occasional weekend where we might have to run disaster recovery drills or conduct special testing with external vendors but those are even rarer still.

I can tell you though that almost everyday when I'm leaving work around 6 or 7 I see A LOT of people in the lobby picking up their takeout delivery food. I'm not sure what group they're in but I wouldn't want to do that everyday.

If you have questions about areas of NJ or anything else let me know.

that is only typical for poorly run software projects.

 

[96Firebird]

I'm not sure what type of engineering degree you got, or what your personality is like, but that sounds like an extremely boring job to me. I am a mechanical engineer, and enjoy working hands-on. Sitting in front of a computer and inputting data for investment opportunities would kill me as a daily job. I guess the best part of the job would be visiting the companies and learning about their products and procedures, seeing what technology they use and such. But I'm not even sure if that is part of this job you are asking about.

I will agree with you that the money goes to the higher-ups, where the engineers are brains behind the actual money-makers and money-savers. But with enough time in the field, most engineers become project managers or managers in general. I also value my free time, and am ok with making an average salary working an average of 40 hours a week with not much stress. Beats not having any free time, and stressing over my job when I actually have free time.

 

[OogyWaWa]

are you trying to do IT for a bank or you want to do research focusing on IT for a bank? these are two very different things...

research is all about finance and your end product will always boil down to a perspective on the future... buy, sell, hold. It's more about meeting company leaders, knowing the industry and making projections on how said firm is going to do financially. key word being financially. you're not necessarily going to be delving deep into certain products to do cool tech shit - this is more a finance and sales/people oriented role than a traditional IT role.

If you want to do work in IT and do research which benefits the firm (i.e. looking into big data solutions and seeing if the firm can benefit, etc.), while these roles exist, it's not often you find people who does it as their full time job. Most people are going to be doing traditional project, development & support work... this could be for front or back office systems... could be enterprise tech as well (outlook, LDAP, connectivity, VOIP, etc.). It's hit or miss based on your project and especially your manager - much like any other company.

I don't think you need MBA or certain credentials to start off - you will get most/all of the training by doing your job. If something stands out to you, apply for the job. All you need is enough to get your foot in the door them blow them away with your critical thinking and enthusiasm. There are plenty of people who are history majors and doing quite well... it's more about ability and attitude and less about pedigree.

The hours for research, IBD and a few other areas are insane (100+ hour work weeks). Other functions are generally 50+ hours, including IT. I currently work about 50-60..sometimes more depending on project workload and how good I'm feeling.

If you're worried about the hours, you should reconsider. Especially if you're looking into IBD or research. It will consume you... it will break like I've seen it break so many of my peers/friends On top of that - it's all bitch work until you're actually capable of doing something yourself (years). You're going to be making pitch books, excels, and valuations until the wee hours of the morning and on weekends. On the plus side, if you can stick with it and do a decent job, you'll be set ($$$) after 10 years or so...

A 50 hour work week isn't bad at all though... especially if you enjoy what you're doing. The IT side is a lot more cush and the pay is decent.

You're not going to make 300k anytime soon. Maybe if you're a junior trader and make some big moves, but doubtful. You won't be doing that spectacular in research early on either - takes time to build up reputation and you have to be constantly right - it's difficult to maintain. In IT - you can probably start around 100-120k in NY... after 10+ years if you've moved up the ranks, you can probably be pulling in 300k+

Feel free to PM me if you like...

source: IT @ at top tier firm

 

[OogyWaWa]

Oh, one more thing re: investment banks (at least from the software dev perspective):

It's EXTREMELY difficult to get a job at an investment bank unless:

1. You already work at an investment bank
2. You personally know the group/person hiring

unless you're willing to move to india

 

[OogyWaWa]

that is only typical for poorly run software projects.

very true... but sadly this is reality for a large number of projects i've seen come through

 

[purbeast0]

very true... but sadly this is reality for a large number of projects i've seen come through

oh i've had my fair share of them as well being in the industry for nearly 10 years, but it's also the reason i'm not on those projects anymore or with the companies leading them heh.

 

[z1ggy]

I'm not sure what type of engineering degree you got, or what your personality is like, but that sounds like an extremely boring job to me... snip...

BS in EE. Did decent in school..I enjoying making things work via electricity. Making little mini transformers...making little tiny motors, etc.

I work for a military company now. All this company does, is integrate parts into a large finished product. 95% of our products are specifications or letters to the government.

It's boring as shit.

I worry that I will not be capable of performing the job requirements of an engineer in a lab/field environment any longer. I sit at a desk for 40 hours a week, some weeks doing absolutely nothing. I mean, literally nothing. Web surfing for 40 hours a week. Blows.

are you trying to do IT for a bank or you want to do research focusing on IT for a bank? these are two very different things... snip...

Can you explain the difference?

I imagine the latter? Since I don't know anybody personally who does this, I can't say for sure what it is I am exactly even trying to do. All I know is, I do enjoy stocks and finances and I am smart enough and capable enough to do all the math required. I can think critically and I'm not afraid to explore the paths to solving problems others might not.

Overall, I'd like to find something though, that's a good mix of work/money/social. I don't mind working 50-60 hours a week for some extra cash to make sure I live comfortably. I can't see myself doing the whole 80+ hour a week thing though. Even if it paid much more, at what cost that will be to my life... I'm not sure. So maybe my quest to work in this field is in vien... But I figure it is worth exploring.

 

[Tweak155]

Why don't you find something you enjoy doing vs large amounts of money for large amounts of time? I can't imagine you're hurting on your current salary.

 

[z1ggy]

Why don't you find something you enjoy doing vs large amounts of money for large amounts of time? I can't imagine you're hurting on your current salary.

The problem is, I enjoy(ed) working on physical objects or atleast designing those things then over seeing its construction (ideally), but now lack the experience in my career to find another job doing those things. My current position is almost entirely paper pushing and no real technical work. I can read how a technical project is done, say, the manufacturing of a high powered transformer in the factory, but I never actually go on the factory floor or see it in person. Our company just tells the vendor what to build, then we check his analytical work.

No I'm not hurting, but the state I live in is very expensive. I barely have any savings. Although I do own my own home.

 

[Tweak155]

The problem is, I enjoy(ed) working on physical objects or atleast designing those things then over seeing its construction (ideally), but now lack the experience in my career to find another job doing those things. My current position is almost entirely paper pushing and no real technical work. I can read how a technical project is done, say, the manufacturing of a high powered transformer in the factory, but I never actually go on the factory floor or see it in person. Our company just tells the vendor what to build, then we check his analytical work.

No I'm not hurting, but the state I live in is very expensive. I barely have any savings. Although I do own my own home.

So you don't enjoy anything else? Even if so, it's not like you can't work your way towards it.

If you feel your job is holding you back, find something else. Don't find excuses not to find something else. Always look for what you enjoy and you'll find a way to get it. May take sacrifices but it will be worth it - and most of the time pays off in the end.

 

[smackababy]

oh i've had my fair share of them as well being in the industry for nearly 10 years, but it's also the reason i'm not on those projects anymore or with the companies leading them heh.

My company now isn't like that, but I've had my share as well. I've had weeks where we worked 7AM until around midnight because our release had to go out on time. And, of course, everyone was salaried, so we didn't get any extra money. Granted, we got a few days off afterwards, but still.

The only times I've stayed past normal hours at this company is when I lose track of time and do it on my own, or I end up getting into a conversation with someone around the time we are supposed to leave.

 

[halik]

I'm looking to make a job switch sometime in 2015. I know it's a ways off but being the typical anal person that I am, I want to do my research. I am likely moving to the NYC metro area. I'm probably looking to live in NJ and commute into NYC for a job.

I'm an engineer with almost 4 years experience. By 2015 I'll obviously have five years. Unfortunately, my current job is not conducive to tons of technical work- I'm not in the lab and I'm not designing new products. I do a LOT of paper pushing, and the work sucks. I fear that I am loosing my technical skills both in designing and analyzing components or systems.

I'm thinking of making a switch into investment banking as an engineer. I've heard of people with degrees as engineers working with investment firms researching other engineering companies and working with finance to determine if the company is worth purchasing equity in. I've heard of people in large cities making $300k plus (not a huge amount given its NYC) doing this... But I dont' recall how much experience it was, and I can't say that isn't a stretch of the truth.

I've also read the hours can be insane. Working 100 hours a week is not something uncommon according to websites I've visited. Even for $300k a year, I would not work 100 hour weeks. I value working out and doing sports, spending time with my SO, etc. I just can't see myself being happy at a job where I make good money, but can never enjoy it.

After being an engineer now for a while, I've come to learn the money is not with the technical folks unless you own your own company. All the money goes to the managers, directors, and VP's. If I am not going to be assigned or be able to perform technical work, I would at least like to get into a field where I can obtain a solid pay check.

TLDR;
Currently engineer, looking for new field in investment banking
Are the hours insane? What is the job like?

Umm with no background in finance and no top10 MBA, it ain't gonna happen. Unless you're trying to do IT or something, where the comp isn't the ibanking number you're thinking.

<- worked for Goldman before gradschool

 

[z1ggy]

So you don't enjoy anything else? Even if so, it's not like you can't work your way towards it.

If you feel your job is holding you back, find something else. Don't find excuses not to find something else. Always look for what you enjoy and you'll find a way to get it. May take sacrifices but it will be worth it - and most of the time pays off in the end.

I only really have experience in electrical engineering things. I "like" working on cars, but I don't actually want to become a mechanic. I need something that still pays well, and preferrably more than I make now.

Umm with no background in finance and no top10 MBA, it ain't gonna happen. Unless you're trying to do IT or something, where the comp isn't the ibanking number you're thinking.

<- worked for Goldman before gradschool

That's what I figured. I have the time for grad school, but not the money.

Just for the hell of it.. Can you rate/describe your time at GS?

 

[Dr. Detroit]

You need a MBA from a top ten school to end up in investment banking - sure there are exceptions but generally speaking, thats what it takes.

Buddy is at Columbia - just accepted an offer from Barclays.

 

[PowerEngineer]

I could see myself doing investment analysis. I have a fairly good grasp on excel and it's finer uses. I haven't quite learned how to make macro's yet, but..I was smart enough to get my degree as an EE

Without experience with macros, your grasp of Excel's "finer uses" is superficial IMHO. I suspect you'll find that real investment analysis takes a lot more than just formulas in spreadsheet cells.

I worry that I will not be capable of performing the job requirements of an engineer in a lab/field environment any longer. I sit at a desk for 40 hours a week, some weeks doing absolutely nothing. I mean, literally nothing. Web surfing for 40 hours a week. Blows.

Another option might be to use that free time to improve yourself. You could work on getting your professional engineering license or on earning an MBA before making the jump to a new job.

Good luck!