Any epi-pen users here? What are you doing now that epi-pens are expensive??!?

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Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,041
4,802
136
Has anyone researched to see when their patent expires? This scenario replays itself out time and time again in the pharmaceutical industry until the patent expires and generic makers can copy the product.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,528
27,833
136
^^ As long as the patent office allows big pharma to evergreen patents, the patent will never expire.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,685
43,947
136
Has anyone researched to see when their patent expires? This scenario replays itself out time and time again in the pharmaceutical industry until the patent expires and generic makers can copy the product.

2025
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,198
15,785
126
Has anyone researched to see when their patent expires? This scenario replays itself out time and time again in the pharmaceutical industry until the patent expires and generic makers can copy the product.

patent is on the injection mechanism, adrenaline is generic drug.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,812
10,346
136
if the patent is on the injection mechanism, i'm surprised other companies haven't made something yet (well there's at least one competitor). i take a self-administered injection every 2 weeks, and unless abbievie licensed the tech from mylan for a shitton of money, i have to imagine their engineers were smart enough to come up with some spring loaded injection mechanism.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,041
4,802
136
Patents cover the method of delivery so it cannot be copied until the patent expires giving the holder exclusive rights to it unless they license another company to use it.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,910
12,376
126
www.anyf.ca
Problem lies with this asinine government namely the FDA that doesn't allow other companies to make a competitor. One company was shut down and the other couldn't make it or some damn thing.

The FDA has time and time again stifled free enterprise in the pharmaceutical industry.

The EPA, DOJ, IRS, FCC, FDA. They're all fuck-ups!

I'd say the biggest issues is IP laws, in this case, patents. Patents need to last 1 year MAX. The whole idea that the law states that there can only be one of anything is completely retarded and anti competition. If it was legal for others to compete there would be like 20 different options and they'd all be affordable.

What sucks is the TPP is only going to make this WORSE. We can get away with cheaper medicine here in Canada because of slightly more lax IP laws and also regulations to avoid price gauging but with TPP all that is going to be out the window, and everybody will have to abide by the US system.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,663
7,894
126
Is there any reason no one makes a semi manual injector? My daughter uses insulin that's most of the way to an epipen®. Attach the needle cartridge, dial an insulin amount on the other end, inject and press. It could be simplified to an already attached needle, and a dial you crank til it stops for the correct amount.

Sounds like a business opportunity to me, and fucking the maker of epipen® makes it taste even better.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,910
12,376
126
www.anyf.ca
Would probably infringe on their patent, sadly. If not, they'd just patent it, and then it would infringe. Though as far as I know manual injection is allowed, since they patented the Epipen itself and not the medicine. So it may just be the thing of educating kids how to do it manually, heck they could tech stuff like this as part of a basic lesson in school. That way everyone should know how to do it to themselves or someone else. Nothing like screwing a greedy corporation through simple education.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Is there any reason no one makes a semi manual injector? My daughter uses insulin that's most of the way to an epipen®. Attach the needle cartridge, dial an insulin amount on the other end, inject and press. It could be simplified to an already attached needle, and a dial you crank til it stops for the correct amount.

Sounds like a business opportunity to me, and fucking the maker of epipen® makes it taste even better.
It's an emergency injector. More likely than not, the person activating it will not have a clear head and lots of time to use it. Plus the auto injector is simple enough that a lot of people can use it without training, which is all the more handy in an emergency situation where they may be administering first aid.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,663
7,894
126
Looking quickly on Wikipedia shows prior art. Insulin pens were made in 1985, so out of patent protection, and the epipen® goes back to the 70s, from a design for the military for nerve gas antidote. It would be interesting to see exactly what the patent is. Patents are given away like mardi gras beads. Seems like there's zero review in the patent office. Invalid patents abound, and if you can't afford lawyers like a major company can, you can't fight it. Even if you choose to fight it, lawyers can run down the clock by tying things up in court, so even when you win, you lose.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
It seems like there are already a few "almost-generic" versions available but they aren't drop-in replacements so folks just have to ask their doctors to write prescriptions for those versions instead of the EpiPen.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,663
7,894
126
It's an emergency injector. More likely than not, the person activating it will not have a clear head and lots of time to use it. Plus the auto injector is simple enough that a lot of people can use it without training, which is all the more handy in an emergency situation where they may be administering first aid.
Pop the cap, twist the top, and stick. It can hardly be easier. Easier in fact than a gluagon pen which is arguably used for more serious conditions than anaphylactic shock, since the patient usually can't do it themselves, and they have to rely on someone else who is most likely untrained.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
33
56
Ya a one year patent. Sure that makes sense. You'd invest hundreds of millions of dollars in development cost for a one year patent on a medical device that might not ever make it to market. Lucky those patents are not treated like a Disney copyright. What's that 100 years or is it unlimited?
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
I'm a strong believer in free-market capitalism, but I can actually understand profit caps for patents. Businesses should be allowed to recoup for R&D and FDA-approval, but I don't see any purpose in fixed-year patents granting monopolies when technology routinely advances multiple times over during the same time period.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,910
12,376
126
www.anyf.ca
Considering the cost of the Epi pens and fact that they'll only go up, even here in Canada, once the TPP passes, I think it's just the thing of educating people how to do it manually. Make it like CPR where it's just one of those things that gets thought to everyone. The issue with stuff like Epipen is they can argue to the consumer "how much do you value life?" and charge basically anything they want, but people have to fight this. If it means it won't be as easy to get the medication, but you don't need to take a second mortgage, then maybe it's worth it.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
Considering the cost of the Epi pens and fact that they'll only go up, even here in Canada, once the TPP passes, I think it's just the thing of educating people how to do it manually. Make it like CPR where it's just one of those things that gets thought to everyone. The issue with stuff like Epipen is they can argue to the consumer "how much do you value life?" and charge basically anything they want, but people have to fight this. If it means it won't be as easy to get the medication, but you don't need to take a second mortgage, then maybe it's worth it.

Or people can just start buying the other versions like the Adrenaclick.

http://www.consumerreports.org/drugs/can-you-get-a-cheaper-epipen/
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
Assuming they don't get sued by Epipen, that is. The main problem is the fact that nobody is allowed to make a generic because of patents. If it was not for that they would not be so expensive in first place as there would be competition.

They are different enough that they don't infringe on the patent so they're not going to get sued. (But also different enough that in some states, you can't fill a prescription for an Epipen with the generic.)

Epipen has name brand recognition so that's why they sell so well. The generics work fine but people just aren't aware of them.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,578
7,639
136
Epipen has name brand recognition so that's why they sell so well. The generics work fine but people just aren't aware of them.

I had no idea Epipen was just adrenalin until this topic. Or that alternatives existed.

Full extent of knowledge on it would probably have been... "an injection people need to survive allergic reactions" Full stop.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,840
617
121
I'd say the biggest issues is IP laws, in this case, patents. Patents need to last 1 year MAX. The whole idea that the law states that there can only be one of anything is completely retarded and anti competition. If it was legal for others to compete there would be like 20 different options and they'd all be affordable.

What sucks is the TPP is only going to make this WORSE. We can get away with cheaper medicine here in Canada because of slightly more lax IP laws and also regulations to avoid price gauging but with TPP all that is going to be out the window, and everybody will have to abide by the US system.


Yeah, TPP is as worse if not worse than NAFTA. Well, coming from this an American. But our government agencies by a large margin have and always have had their heads up their ass and continue to screw over the people time and time again. I have signed so many petitions at change.org for the FDA to allow medicine to be used by dieing cancer patents. I mean FFS! They're dieing! Let them use the shit!
 
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