Any guess what's wrong with my clutch?

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
OK I bled it from the slave and master and there is no air in the system and yet, despite its ability to hold in fluid (I have it pressed in with a 2X4 for 10 min and nothing appears to leak) seemingly, I'm unable to quite get enough rebound for it to pop out by itself. THe clutch is more workable than this morning but the pedal won't go in quite enough to disengage the clutch so now all I'm doing is wasting fresh brake fluid--it's been completely purged of old.

I'm likely now to take out the battery and air intake box and replace the slave cylinder and line. I thought there was leak around there earlier today but it was hard to tell in the light. How involved is the master as well?

Replacing the master cylinder should be as simple as disconnecting it from the pedal and un-bolting it from the firewall. Chances are that either the slave or master cylinder failed and caused the fluid loss. The biggest issue with both the slave and the master is just getting at the parts.

ZV

 

[bruceb]

On most cars, the master is held in place with 2 nuts, along with a pin type clip that connects
the piston rod to the clutch pedal linkage. On the slave cylinder, it usually mounts to the bellhousing
with either 2 nuts or 2 small length bolts. Not hard to replace at all.

 

[StageLeft]

Cool, that should do it. I'll think about avoiding the master unless it appears leaky per zenmer's advice above about its boot. I guess I will be biking to work tomorrow in the meantime. I'll update this when I get things sorted out, thanks for all the help!

 

[thedarkwolf]

I just went through this crap on my miata. Slave died and after I replaced it the master died and after i replaced that the tiny hole that I never noticed in the rubber section of line turned into a huge hole so I had to replace that. I had been losing a little fluid for a while and just assumed the slave was dieing so when it finally did I never bothered to check the rubber line. Really sucks thinking everything is fixed multiple times only to completely loose your clutch again in 5-10 miles. I got to be really good at clutchless shifting.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: exdeath
Slave/clutch side cylinder is connected to the clutch fork sticking out of the bell housing where the engine and transmission come together. Just follow the circumference of the bell housing (eg: where the starter is) and look for a cylinder with a plunger/rod connected to a lever sticking out. It should also be connected to a hose/line that goes to your master/pedal side cylinder.

The idea is you want to bleed the clutch system the same way you bleed brakes, by opening the valve on the slave end at the transmission, pressing the pedal down and holding, close the slave end, verify master cylinder fluid level, let the pedal up, rinse and repeat.

But you'll need to fix the leak first of course.

engine.jpg

There's a pic. Where in that pic would it be generally located? I presume I'm hooked to the valve for the master. I don't know if the bell housing in that pic next to the clutch reservoir is for the brakes or not. Do you think I need to get under the car?

Is that icetea?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
I just went through this crap on my miata. Slave died and after I replaced it the master died and after i replaced that the tiny hole that I never noticed in the rubber section of line turned into a huge hole so I had to replace that. I had been losing a little fluid for a while and just assumed the slave was dieing so when it finally did I never bothered to check the rubber line. Really sucks thinking everything is fixed multiple times only to completely loose your clutch again in 5-10 miles. I got to be really good at clutchless shifting.

A perfect example of why it's generally recommended to just replace everything (master, slave, and rubber line) when one of them fails. Usually the others aren't far behind.

ZV

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: bruceb
Odin,

On one forum (dell support) they do not resize with the browser window.
On that one, I have seen many posts with very long lines of words, which
in my view makes it harder to read. So I limit my line length to about 3/4 width.
It also makes it easier to get points across to the person wanting assistance.

This
one
resizes
so
you
don't
need
to
do
it
here.

Thanks.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Guys, can we keep this on-topic instead of worrying about post formatting?

Thanks!

ZV

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Guys,
can we keep
this on-topic
instead of
worrying about
post formatting?

Thanks!

ZV

I totally agree ;

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Skoorb
OK I bled it from the slave and master and there is no air in the system and yet, despite its ability to hold in fluid (I have it pressed in with a 2X4 for 10 min and nothing appears to leak) seemingly, I'm unable to quite get enough rebound for it to pop out by itself. THe clutch is more workable than this morning but the pedal won't go in quite enough to disengage the clutch so now all I'm doing is wasting fresh brake fluid--it's been completely purged of old.

I'm likely now to take out the battery and air intake box and replace the slave cylinder and line. I thought there was leak around there earlier today but it was hard to tell in the light. How involved is the master as well?

Replacing the master cylinder should be as simple as disconnecting it from the pedal and un-bolting it from the firewall. Chances are that either the slave or master cylinder failed and caused the fluid loss. The biggest issue with both the slave and the master is just getting at the parts.

ZV

Check the Haynes manual because I think you may have to bench bleed the master cylinder before you put it in or you have to bleed it separately in the car. Unless it comes already bled and full of fluid and then you're all set to hook it up and bleed the brake lines and clutch/slave cylinder.

Is the slave cylinder just bolted to the transmission housing? On my brilliantly designed (read sarcasm here) Contour, they put the slave cylinder IN the bell housing. You can get to the bleeder screws through a port on the bell housing but if you need to visually inspect the bastard for leaks, get ready to drop the engine and unbolt the tranny from the motor. I don't know if the Maxima's is like that but if it was I'd take it to the shop at that point. Being Japanese though, I'm thinking it should be a little better designed for accessibility, but who knows. Just a thought if you're still having trouble locating it.

 

[bruceb]

Zenmer .. I agree .. and I did not begin this line of how someone should format his posts. Someone else did (I won't name names)

 

[StageLeft]

AMCRambler, I am almost certainly it's bolted to the outside. It looked fairly accessible, but once I get the air intake and filter box out of the way I'll be able to get a good look at what's going on. I'm not in a super duper hurry to fix it because it's forcing me to ride to work if nothing else, though I'd like it done by next Monday!

 

[StageLeft]

clutch1.jpg
clutch2.jpg

There are the slave pics. I guess I'll start with a new slave cylinder and the rubber line leading from it to that first junction. How do I detach from the junction--undo that bolt at the top? There are a few other junctions that lead back to a small metal pipe which ultimately leads to the master cylinder.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
clutch1.jpg
clutch2.jpg

There are the slave pics. I guess I'll start with a new slave cylinder and the rubber line leading from it to that first junction. How do I detach from the junction--undo that bolt at the top? There are a few other junctions that lead back to a small metal pipe which ultimately leads to the master cylinder.

Yup, it's as simple as the bolt at the top where the hydraulic line connects.

That bolt is called a Banjo Bolt, it's hollow inside and has a hole near the top (bolt alone without the banjo fitting) so that fluid actually flows through the bolt.

ZV

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
clutch1.jpg
clutch2.jpg

There are the slave pics. I guess I'll start with a new slave cylinder and the rubber line leading from it to that first junction. How do I detach from the junction--undo that bolt at the top? There are a few other junctions that lead back to a small metal pipe which ultimately leads to the master cylinder.

That green colored bolt on the top of the junction looks like it's holding a banjo fitting of some sort that runs from that junction upstream to the master cylinder. The line coming out of the junction looks like it is molded right into the junction. I can't see how that side could come out at all. And with the hose crimped into that metal tube leaving the junction, it looks like the junction and hose come all as one piece. Not sure if you'll be able to find that junction and hose to replace it. I checked Rock Auto and they don't have it from what I can tell. Maybe hit up some junk yards for it if you need it. It does seem like it's been sweating some fluid as that hose looks pretty damp. Unless it's coming from the slave and dripping down the hose. Hard to tell which way is up in those pics.

Rock Auto does have the slave cylinder though. They also have a clutch master cylinder listed under your car. So it looks like your clutch has a separate master cylinder than the brakes? I didn't realize that.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
So it looks like your clutch has a separate master cylinder than the brakes? I didn't realize that.

Every car with a hydraulic clutch has a separate master cylinder for the clutch. Otherwise every time you shifted, you'd engage the brakes. I think you mean a separate fluid reservoir.

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

The clutch master has its own reservoir. In this picture the junction is below the slave. I think there may have been moisture before, but most of it now is spill over from me making a mess with fluid.

I think I will try and replace the slave and also see if my local nissan dealership has the junction box, because I think you may be right that this line is hooked directly into that junction.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
So it looks like your clutch has a separate master cylinder than the brakes? I didn't realize that.

Every car with a hydraulic clutch has a separate master cylinder for the clutch. Otherwise every time you shifted, you'd engage the brakes. I think you mean a separate fluid reservoir.

ZV

Yeah, you're right. I'm thinking of a separate reservoir on top of the clutch master cylinder. My Contour clutch master shares the same reservoir as the brakes.

 

[StageLeft]

I replaced the slave this evening and after bleeding I do believe it's driveable but it wasn't quite perfect, then I saw it--the leak is the line directly from the clutch to the junction. Unfortunately, this is a part that is attainble from a nissan dealer (possibly online, too) and it is....$66! At least the slave cylinder was only $44 with gas and I can presume that it won't break for the rest of the car's life.

 

[thedarkwolf]

None of the autopart stores around here carried the rubber line for my miata either. The dealer wanted a lot for a 6" rubber line so I found a braided line on one of the miata performance shops online and ordered that. You could also just take it off and go to a hydraulic hose shop and see if they can make you one.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
None of the autopart stores around here carried the rubber line for my miata either. The dealer wanted a lot for a 6" rubber line so I found a braided line on one of the miata performance shops online and ordered that. You could also just take it off and go to a hydraulic hose shop and see if they can make you one.

Yeah, this is definitely a dealer part. Maxima forums there is a group buy and for $40 shipped I can get a steel line, but it bypasses entirely the silly junction here and that may be ok but the other line it would also replace is rusted to kingdom come and I'm really, really hestitant about saving $30 and wrestling for God knows how long with a rusted bolt that is murder.

I'm not sure if a 4th gen, per slags would actually fit a 5th, although they do appear similar.

 

[RayH]

If you go with a stainless braided line, make sure it does not contact anything else in the engine bay or cover it with plastic split loom or shrink tubing. Normal engine vibrations will cause stainless braid to saw against anything it contacts.

 

[StageLeft]

Quick Q, those banjo bolts--does it matter if their holes on the side line up with the line? I'd have thought yes, but that requres very perfect thicknesses of o-rings, which are not lining up now and looking at the bolt there seems to be a specifically larger gap around the entire circumference so that the line's hole doesn't actually have to line up with the hole on the side of the bolt. I need to know so I can determine whether I need to buy some copper rings or not today, thanks!

 

[AMCRambler]

No they don't need to line up with the hose. Like you described there's a gap around the circumference of the bolt's shaft so fluid will fill that gap and find it's way to the hole in the side of the bolt. You just have to make sure you've got the bolt centered in the banjo fitting so that the bolt head clamps down on the fitting tightly all the way around and doesn't leak. If the fitting is brass, be careful how tight you torque down the bajo bolt too. Too hard and it will deform the fitting and it will leak. They're brass so that they deform a little when you tighten them up and create a better seal.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
No they don't need to line up with the hose. Like you described there's a gap around the circumference of the bolt's shaft so fluid will fill that gap and find it's way to the hole in the side of the bolt. You just have to make sure you've got the bolt centered in the banjo fitting so that the bolt head clamps down on the fitting tightly all the way around and doesn't leak. If the fitting is brass, be careful how tight you torque down the bajo bolt too. Too hard and it will deform the fitting and it will leak. They're brass so that they deform a little when you tighten them up and create a better seal.

Sweet. These ones are aluminum or steel but have copper rings to seal. You're supposed to change them I guess, but I've heard the same about my oil pan bolt and I've changed that one a dozen times on the same o ring