Originally posted by: E equals MC2
"Isn't it bit presumptuous to say those worldly people who seem happy are really not happy deep inside because they don't know Your God? There are plenty of people I observe who ARE truly happy without believing in Your Christian God"
It IS presumptuous to think this, and I can't find a compelling reason to believe that God (if he exists) ever guaranteed that even a true Christian's life would be all bread and circuses. Of course there are passages in the bible that read as though this might be true, but they are offset by others that attest to how hard it can be to be a true believer. In the bible some of the worst trials imaginable were inflicted upon those closest to God by God himself (think Abraham or Jephther or Job or Lot). It's obviously not supposed to be a barrel of laughs no matter who you happen to worship.
Of course many christians will counter this by saying that they have a certain indefinable "wholeness" of soul even in their toughest of times that they simply would not have without the Lord. I could certainly see that concrete faith in a God and the resulting feeling that everything just HAS to turn out all right could help someone keep a stiff upper lip during a crisis. At the same time I can't really see where belief in another completely different God would be lacking in this department whether either God exists or not. The conjecture offered that this foreign God's happiness is not TRUE happiness is not really an admissible argument. What is true happiness? How many times do you multiply happiness by itself to get there? The idea is that this special brand of happiness is coming directly FROM God himself which is why no other God or worldly pleasure will do to achieve it. This is definitely not a testable claim since testing it would require questioning a true convert both before and after his conversion. It stands to reason that anyone on the verge of a religious conversion is indeed unhappy with aspects of his or her life to start with and the obvious bias he will have after conversion would further muddy results. In short, to the question "Is the happiness you experience as a christian convert deeper and more TRUE than any happiness you experienced before becoming a convert"? The answer would always be yes. The unanswerable question here is "But is it REALLY"?
"You mean to tell me the hundreds of thousands who die in the world EVERYDAY that don't believe in Christ all go to hell? Why is it their fault that they weren't even given the opportunity to at least hear of Christian God? Please don't give me the [God works in mysterious ways] line."
This question will likely get you as many answers as people asked. I've heard anywhere from "It's sad but yes" to "Well I suppose if they live in such and such way...". The most common answer by far in my experience is "I don't know" (a response to any question that I wholly approve of when it's true). It's the spectrum of people who actually venture a guess that we're really interested in here. What causes them to believe as they do?
The ones for whom the answer to this question is yes are generally those that believe that the bible is irrefutable, unalterable truth. The new testament explicitly states that the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ himself. It does not matter that this seems a horrible state of affairs to some people. It's in there, so it's true. None of the christian groups will give up the belief that God is both omnipotent and benevolent, and from there any further debate on the matter is impossible. The ONLY answer here IS "God works in mysterious ways" as the seeming injustice of this cannot be logically reconciled with an omnipotent and benevolent God. Because God is necessarily both things this must be good in a way that is impossible to determine.
Of the two groups I actually side with the hard-liner as the second must resort to quite a bit of make-believe (even within the framework of already being a worshiper) in order to raise God up to the level of their own morality. To claim that non-christians can, in any form or fashion, be allowed into the christian heaven is to deny some pretty specific passages in the bible (See John 14: 6 and 13, John 15:16, John 16:23-24, John 5:22-23, John 10:37-38, Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:18 to name a couple). Writing off something that is so often repeated in the book that is at least the initial source of the average person's christian knowledge seems like going against one of the few ideas that
can't be explained away as metaphor for one's own peace of mind. Peace of mind is nice, but unwillingness to look at an ugly truth doesn't make that truth any prettier. That's exactly what this is; denial of a clearly stated theme in the bible and a rewriting of God so that he measures up to the standards of the worshiper in complete disregard of anything other than the fact that they just CAN'T accept him as anything less.
"If Adam and Eve sinned. Why are WE paying for their sins? Who came up with such system and why does it have to be that way? Why did God had to send his one and only Son to atone for our sins (John 3:16)? That seems awfully man-made logic to me. If God is truly almighty, why is he bound to such silly & restricting tit-for-tat system?"
I don't think any explanation is offered for this question anywhere in the bible. It simply is true that sins are passed down from the father. The mode of transmittal has been speculated to be through the semen though. The idea that there is no atonement without blood IS a man-made concept that actually predates christianity in the form of ritual sacrifice.
"Why does God have to damn those to hell? Eternal damnation... isn't that pretty harsh? For what, not loving you back? If God is truly love, which is what Christian God profeses to be, then why do the creation have to accept him back in order for us to deserve the creator's love? Can he not abolish hell? Is He helpless?"
This is one area where I think christianity actually makes sense. Heaven is the ultimate reward, hell is the ultimate punishment. If anything I would expect it to be the most impossibly hard thing imaginable to attain the best thing you can possibly attain ever, but if you listen to the preachers it's supposedly easier than falling off a log. Accept Him and worship Him, which is something you want to do whether you know it or not, and you're in. If it's really that easy, then the punishment for doing this preposterously simple thing should be both infinitely bad and final. Yeah, that's how I'd run things too