Any machinists/metalworkers/engineers here?

[Eli]

Oh, don't worry, you did. I wouldn't really run out and spend 2 grand on a piece of equipment before I knew more about it.

Hmm.. Got any links to the things you speak about? hehe

 

[Ornery]

Took a while, but I finally found a used one south of you for $2250.00. It's a 1963 model, so you see how they hold their value. That's probably what it cost new! A new one with digital readouts and powered x-axis is only $13,300. Uh, you would have to buy tool holders too

BUT, you could make money with it for sure!

 

[Eli]

Eeek.. hehe.. Well, I could spend 3-4000$ on one machine, and then get the other machine a little later I guess. But the thing is I want to learn how to do things before I buy the machines.. Heh..

I was going to get the Sherline kit just to practice with. It couldn't really be that horrible, could it? heh


How much, rough estimate, would it cost to buy the plans for one of those engines, and give them to a shop to make for you to put together? Although that takes most of the fun out of it, it would still be interesting.

 

[Wallydraigle]

I'm a goddamn ironwoker. The best way to get started is to not.

 

[Mday]

lol

 

[Ornery]

Uh, they're going to want about $40.00 per hour. That engine will require, what, 20 hours?

That $13,000 is less than I thought a new one would be with the readouts and powered axis. Now, if you were to enroll in a class, the instructor may let you use the equipment off hours. Make sure you get to use a Bridgeport. That machine is found in all shops. You'd sure have a useful skill if you learned to putz around on one of those.

All machines use the same principles to cut metal. I mean, if you learn on one, that knowledge can be applied to other machines. But I'd just as soon learn on a Bridgeport for the sake of consistency.

You know, a bank might be willing to give you a loan to buy it. It's got fantastic collateral value!

Edit: Better idea. Get a part time job in a machine shop. Learn there and be paid. Be up front about wanting to use the equipment off hours for your hobby. Tell them you'll pay for the cutters you'll use (They'll get them for you at discount!) The owner of the shop would be tickled to have someone actually interested in learning this craft. I'm NOT kidding!

 

[ArkAoss]

ORNERY IS SOO RIGHT, it is a majorly dying trade. Probly have alot of job prospects, and if you have expierience, and you like doing the stuff, its got great opurtinity.

 

[Eli]

Yikes.. 800$ in shop fees. I'll save my money and buy the machines to do it myself.

It'd be cool to design Internal Combustion Engines for a living. That's probably a little diffrent than a machinist though.

 

[Ornery]

Yeah, just look at Felix Wankel and his design from tinkering! :Q

 

[madmacks]

all i have to say is, i hate pro/e.

 

[madmacks]

rendered pics of my senior design with my classmates: nhi, pat, and robert.

we had to build the thing ourselves. pretty cool that it actually worked. its a ping pong ball server/shooter.

other pics are from my h.s. days just messing around, wish i could put more time into them. no bashing!

click me

 

[Ornery]

Could that unit put english on the balls, as well as point in various directions automatically? :Q

That must have taken a lot of time to execute. Did other teams attempt to build the same thing? Who has it now? Gotta be worth a few bucks if it actually worked.

Pretty Cool!

 

[madmacks]

thanks. it could put any spin you want and could shoot the ball over 60 mph. hehe, the serves were pretty fast needless to say and the amazing part was that it stayed on the table. the wheel speeds were independent of each other so we made up some funky serves in our spare time. the machine had a function to oscillate it side to side and could rotate on 3 axis. it was pretty fun and rewarding.

check this out for the real thing
hope he doesnt mind me giving out his site...

the real thing
im one of those guys

 

[Rudee]

Mech Engineer here.. However in my job you don't use you hands much except with a mouse infront of a computer.

Maybe, a half a dozen times a month you have to visit the plant, which requires you to wear a hardhat. yeah. Other than that, your hands stay relatively clean.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

<< Put a pair of safety glasses on an engineer and they lose 50 IQ points. Had one come out the other day to watch me weld up his new improved widget. He ended up standing right in the blast radius for my welder. >>




<< oh, those machinists i met said that today's engineers know jack about machining, and that machinists were a dying breed =( >>



Don't blame the science of engineering, blame the &quot;educators&quot;. In my co-op engineering programs, I became proficient in all the basic machines in the tool room, from various lathes and mill to OD grinders to machining centers to Wire EDM, and anything in between you can think of. Got the basics of welding and heat treating, and lots of hands-on diemaker and toolmaker work too. Pretty much got the equivalent of serving about half of a 4yr general apprenticeship, in addition to the co-op work as an engineer and the degrees. Unfortunately, there are too few schools in this country like the one I attended.

 

[Eli]

Which one did you attend?




I actually really wouldn't mind doing that. Although I wouldn't want to work for some big corporate pile of sh!t. I also wouldn't be very interested in large engines(more than 3 or 4 cylinders). I'd imagine it would be pretty hard to start your own line of engines though, lol..


Hmm.. How bad could those Sherline machines really be? I found a book on Amazon, &quot;Tabletop Machining&quot;, bu Joe Martin. He uses the Sherline products. shrug.. hehe

 

[Tiger]

Eli,

Ornery is right. You need to decide if this is going to be a hobby or a career. If the Sherline is as bad as Ornery says you'll never get any consistency to the parts made on the machine. If your going to do the engine thing wouldn't it be a good idea for the crank shafts to fit the block no matter what batch they were machined with?

I would suggest checking out any local community colleges for machinists programs. It wouldn't hurt to get educated and a little experience before dumping a wad of cash.

To all the engineers in this thread, I was just yanking your appendage a little. The afore mentioned &quot;engineer&quot; was a summer intern. We do have a couple of guys who actually like to know how stuff works in the real world.

 

[Ornery]

• &quot;...I would suggest that machines larger than the small table top variety and of cast iron construction be given serious consideration because there is absolutely NO SUBSTITUTE for mass in a machine tool. Do not assume that large machines can not do small precision work, a larger machine can always do better work than a smaller one of the same quality because it will be more rigid. I use a 7 inch lathe, an 11 inch lathe and a medium size knee mill. The smallest machine I would consider - and they are very good - is the Sakai or the Poseidon machines listed on the &quot;Model Engineering Suppliers&quot; page. I do not own a machine of either of these manufacturers and I have no financial or other connection with any supplier, but I do insist on quality myself, and you should too! After all, quality IS economy in the long run.&quot; - Jerry E. Howell

I'd much, much rather have a quality used machine than those new table top machines. They will hold their value, so it's a better investment either way.

A good example wood be a stand alone drill press VS a unit that allows you to clamp your portable drill into it and use as a drill press. You'll see the difference within seconds of pulling the handle of each while taking a cut. BTW, you can buy a nice used drill press too. That would make quite a hobbyist shop with the drill press, lathe and Bridgeport. Hmmmm, gonna want a big belt and disc sander too. Not to mention the welder...

But damn, you'd be the envy of neighborhood. Norm Abram would have nothing on you!

Edit: Just found this FAQ by Joe Martin. He's pretty frank about what to expect from his Sherline products. I'm assuming you'll want to bore and sleeve full size one cylinder engines as well as do the modeling. His equipment is definitely not for that.

 

[Eli]

Thanks,

Yeah, I've read that quote and the Sherline FAQ. I didn't know how to apply it to myself though. Well, from the looks of it, my best choices would be to either go to school, or find work at a local shop. I like the idea of working at a shop more.

Then all I have to do is save.. and save.. and save.. Buy.. then start saving some more. :Q

I wonder if machine shop jobs pay good? Heh..

Yeah, I'll need a drill press. What do you think it would be better to start out with, a lathe, or a mill? You keep saying &quot;A bridgeport&quot;, but from what I've seen, Bridgeport makes both lathes, mills, and other things. I'll assume your referring to a Bridgeport mill.

Heck, if I buy real equipment like that, I might as well try and start some sort of business with it, even if it's a &quot;hobby&quot; business, on the side.

Damn, air compressors are fsking expensive..

You know, tools suck. You can buy a 30$ bench vise, or a 250$ bench vise. And it's that way with everything. You can guess which one is going to last the longest, have the best features, and the most accuracy(if it applies), but that just sucks, from a budget standpoint.

 

[Ornery]

When I first started, 20+ years ago, I worked with a German fellow that was co-owner of the shop. He knew machining and quality. Learned the ropes from him. He used to come back from tool auctions with all kinds of odds and ends. He tooled up the shop years before with equipment like that.

Bridgeport has become a generic term, like Band-Aid. It usually refers to their bread and butter machine that they've been building for decades. It's a vertical mill. A &quot;knee&quot; mill. You could use it instead of a drill press if you wanted. It will be hard to find a used one at a decent price because they are always in demand. There may even be a waiting lists for new ones.

• Bridgeport has been a leader in the machine tool industry since 1938, when we revolutionized the machine tool industry by inventing an extraordinary milling machine with a revolving turret that moved the head from one end of the table to the other. This machine, the Series I Standard, offered unheard of productivity and versatility at a price that every machine shop could afford.

But anyway, head to an outlet for used equipment and see what you can find as far as vises and tool holders etc. Good source for cutters too. I guess you would need cash there, but the prices would be far better than new. Tell them what you want to do. There are machines available similar to a &quot;Bridgeport&quot;, but I'd have to screw around with them before recommending one or another. The used equipment dealer might be able to help out in that area.

There is also the matter of having the 3-Phase Power for these machines. Make sure the motors match what you can supply. Also, the city zoning may restrict what you can do from your home as far as making it a small business.

 

[Eli]

Ack.. Are you saying that none of these machines come in 120v 60hz versions? :Q .. Now what do I have to do, rent a shop building? Hehe.. too much..


I say that as a good thing tho. It's not like I'd really let a problem like that stop me.

 

[Missus]

Should NOT take you (Eli) 10 years.. take some community school classes and get a pt job at a shop... Doing it will teach you... Mostly it takes a good eye and a sturdy hand!!

My pic in the gallery is of me when I was at school cutting some pipe... My instructor wanted me to learn how to cut it by hand before using the automated cutter...

It is really cool to work with your hands and satisfying to see what you can do with them!!!



Ooops... forgot the not...

 

[Stallion]

I'm a machinist. Part of the IAM for over 13 years. I run a Cincinnati milicron skin mill for Boeing. Not to many of these around.

 

[Ornery]

Well Eli, I forgot about the motors. But I don't know why you couldn't swap the 3-phase with a regular 220V single phase. It's a 2HP motor, that's all.

I just think that knee mill would come in handy for working on those restoration projects too. At least it would be large enough to handle them.

A Cincinnati milicron skin mill for Boeing? I bet it's not to cool to mess up a part there, eh? :Q

 

[Stallion]

Ornery, at about $16,000 or more for a sheet of aluminum they get a little mad when you scrap something. Especially since we cut two at a time.